Kingdom Hearts: The "Heart" is actually abstract

[TheSpeedster96]

I also want to bring up the fact that the Keyblade is stated to destroy the existence of darkness in the Memorial Ultimania.

 

[Sera_EX]

She was not destroyed on a conceptual level. You are just throwing around the word "conceptual" much like tons of other people. "Conceptual" has to be one of the most overused words on this site.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Anyone can "Conceptually" come up with their own concepts, but that doesn't suddenly create a universal unbalance. It's even explained in the conceptual manipulation page that there needs to be elaborate context for something to be called conceptual manipulation.

 

[Sera_EX]

>The heart is conceptual

>Destroying the body is thus conceptual manip

See the contradiction here?

 

[Bobsican]

Yeah, destroying the body isn´t conceptual manip

Manipulating, the heart, on the other hand...

 

[TheSpeedster96]

>The heart is conceptual
>Destroying the body is thus conceptual manip

See the contradiction here?

Care to explain where I implied that? I said she was visibly put into the exact same state by Xehanort when Sora was i conceptual pieces when his body was like that.

 

[Antvasima]

Since Sera and the rest of the staff agree, would somebody be willing to remove Conceptual Manipulation, and the associated category at the bottom of the pages, from all Kingdom Hearts profiles, with the possible exception of Xehanort (since he was apparently going to rewrite the conceptual structure of the universe)?

 

[Bobsican]

Maybe it could be done with an script, @Ant?

Category: Kingdom Hearts

 

[Antvasima]

Promestein is the only one who has such a script, but I do not think that she would be interested.

 

[Bobsican]

I´ll go ahead and ask, it´s worth a try.

 

[Bobsican]

Okay, Prom is now removing all the conceptual manip mentions, resistance to such and category from all pages but Xehanort.

 

[Bobsican]

Prom just finished.

Anything else to check?

 

[Bobsican]

Sorry for multiposting, but this is so a notification appears and this isn´t left ignored.

Oh yeah, only Sora, Riku, Aqua, Terra, Ventus, Roxas, Xion, Lea, Mickey, Donald, Goofy and Sora´s summons keep the resistance to concept manip, but via scaling from being able to take hits from Xehanort or being comparable to Sora, Donald and Goofy, right?

Asking to be sure that this is accepted and if I missed someone.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems fine to me, but I am the wrong person to ask.

It was nice of Promestein to help out in any case.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Xehanort only has conceptual manipulation with Kingdom Hearts, not with his Keyblade, and no one ever tanked an attack from Kingdom Hearts itself.

 

[Antvasima]

Good point.

 

[Bobsican]

Xehanort only has conceptual manipulation with Kingdom Hearts, not with his Keyblade, and no one ever tanked an attack from Kingdom Hearts itself.

It was before he got the X-Blade, then again, so it easily scales to before that.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

What is left to do here?

 

[Bobsican]

Sorry for multiposting, but this is so a notification appears and this isn´t left ignored.
Oh yeah, only Sora, Riku, Aqua, Terra, Ventus, Roxas, Xion, Lea, Mickey, Donald, Goofy and Sora´s summons keep the resistance to concept manip, but via scaling from being able to take hits from Xehanort or being comparable to Sora, Donald and Goofy, right?

Asking to be sure that this is accepted and if I missed someone.

Just the consensus of which keep the Conceptual Manipulation and/or the resistance to it, @Ant.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. What do the rest of you think?

 

[TheSpeedster96]

I still stand by Keyblade Wielders getting conceptual manipulation scaling from Xehanort putting Kairi in conceptual pieces, the state Sora was in. Also, Xehanort still has conceptual manipulation on his profile through harming Heartless. It should be changed to something like 'Was going to use Kingdom Hearts to create a balance between the concepts of light and darkness'.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, Xehanort keeping it was already agreed on, so I´ll update the description and some other stuff that has been already agreed on.

Also, I can see all Keyblade users getting it, but the problem is that they lack feats doing that sort of stuff TBH

 

[TheSpeedster96]

The Keyblade is still stated to be able to destroy the very existence of darkness.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, i guess it would fall as Conceptual Manipulation with every attack, BUT to beings/things made of darkness?

 

[TheSpeedster96]

No, it just means the Keyblade can be used as an application to destroy darkness. It wouldn't be conceptual in every attack. Regardless, it's still the destruction of a type 3 concept, it shouldn't be limited to only darkness.

 

[Bobsican]

The question to be more exact is, in which cases it´s combat applicable beyond Heartless?

 

[Antvasima]

The staff already agreed that the other keyblade users shouldn't have conceptual manipulation, as they cannot affect an entire universal concept itself as Xehanort could.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, as far I know, manipulating something abstract (The heart) would be concept manip, which they can do.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems more like advanced Non-Physical Interaction, unless it is the entirety of a concept.

 

[Bobsican]

What about the resistances to Conceptual Manip then? That would be the only thing left in that case

 

[Antvasima]

I am not sure. More staff input would be appreciated.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Xehanort is manipulating the very concepts of light and darkness with KH, the main cast doesn't manipulate those concepts for their concept manip so this should be irrelevant.

 

[Bobsican]

What about the resistances to Conceptual Manip then? That would be the only thing left in that case

 

[Antvasima]

I am personally not opposed to resistance to concept manipulation, but I am the wrong person to ask. We need more input from the staff members that commented earlier.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, one thing for sure is that Sora, Donald, Goofy and Sora´s summons get it via being able to take hits from Xehanort without being conceptually killed in the process.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, that seems to make sense.

 

[Bobsican]

As Xehanort did that with his base Keyblade, this resistance should just scale to anyone that has fught him by then which also includes Aqua, Terra, Ventus and Master Eraqus.

Okay, so, in a nutshell, the following is fine? (Please say if I missed someone):

- Sora, Donald, Goofy, Sora´s summons, Aqua, Terra, Ventus and Master Eraqus get resistance to Concept Manip.

 

[Antvasima]

With me it is fine, but I much prefer to get confirmations from other staff members, in order to avoid making mistakes.

 

[Bobsican]

Shall I contact the staff members once more?