Kingdom Hearts Stat Revision Discussion Thread

[ShrekAnakin]

Agreed with Ploz. It's best to discuss it here.

 

[Bobsican]

Okay, so I found some 4-A feats for the cast, some shakier than others:

First, Ansem's being holds End of the World (Also stated in-game) back on KHI, which holds multiple sorts of pocket realms, some which clearly have an starry sky:


Second, back in KHCoM...
Jiminy states that the card made Traverse Town inside Castle Oblivion (The cards come from Naminé using her powers to make realities from Sora's memories, she also does the same to Riku). Also, Traverse Town clearly has a night sky filled with stars (4-A), and as Monstro is inside as well, considering that it was in the middle of the Realm of Light... yeah, it may be 3-A to Low 2-C, especially considering what KH3D established with how shortly after Pinocchio got inside Monstro they ended up in the Ocean Between as it went in KHI, which could thus include the rest of the Realm of Light, but as I'm sure this is easily questionable, 4-A seems a safe low-end.

Third, also in CoM, Marluxia seems to make a pocket reality in the middle of Castle Oblivion, clearly featuring an starry background, this is supported both in the original GBA version and the remake, however, as we never get any sort of explicit statements over those, they may not be that usable.

Also, Naminé somehow has 2-C range, this is also happens here, she's able to make a portal from the Realm Between to the Realm of Darkness, and one from the Realm Between to the Realm of Light, so...
Yeah, Mickey just forgot about Aqua just a few minutes after losing her, but to be fair, maybe not even Naminé or him could sense her anymore.
Overall, the cast may be pushable for 4-A, 3-A to Low 2-C is pretty shaky even with the Data-Sora stuff, so I would leave it at a side for now.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Okay, so I found some 4-A feats for the cast, some shakier than others:

First, Ansem's being holds End of the World (Also stated in-game) back on KHI, which holds multiple sorts of pocket realms, some which clearly have an starry sky:

Alright to explain real quick, in context prior to this the PoLs explain that Ansem got engulfed into the darkness:


Where he ends up in Final World

What's happening here is Ansem is commanding the darkness and thus defeating him will alternatively defeat the darkness, it's not him directly scaling to creating world of light or sustaining it, add on with the sustaining feats thread Ansem won't even meet the requirements.

Second, back in KHCoM...

Jiminy states that the card made Traverse Town inside Castle Oblivion (The cards come from Naminé using her powers to make realities from Sora's memories, she also does the same to Riku). Also, Traverse Town clearly has a night sky filled with stars (4-A), and as Monstro is inside as well, considering that it was in the middle of the Realm of Light... yeah, it may be 3-A to Low 2-C, especially considering what KH3D established with how shortly after Pinocchio got inside Monstro they ended up in the Ocean Between as it went in KHI, which could thus include the rest of the Realm of Light, but as I'm sure this is easily questionable, 4-A seems a safe low-end.

I don't see what here is 3-A to Low 2-C at all. Traverse Town in the memory is the memories of Sora, which he remembers a starry sky, and even then no one sclaes to this since it's a card Namine makes via memory manipulation.

Third, also in CoM, Marluxia seems to make a pocket reality in the middle of Castle Oblivion, clearly featuring an starry background, this is supported both in the original GBA version and the remake, however, as we never get any sort of explicit statements over those, they may not be that usable.

Got brought up in an older thread the stars aren't legit stars, you can see one of those "stars" right next to you.

Also, Naminé somehow has 2-C range, this is also happens here, she's able to make a portal from the Realm Between to the Realm of Darkness, and one from the Realm Between to the Realm of Light, so...

Yeah, Mickey just forgot about Aqua just a few minutes after losing her, but to be fair, maybe not even Naminé or him could sense her anymore.

Overall, the cast may be pushable for 4-A, 3-A to Low 2-C is pretty shaky even with the Data-Sora stuff, so I would leave it at a side for now.

Namine's range is fine but 4-A doesn't work here.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Wont comment on namine,
Dont buy marluxia

As for ansem, sustaining thread hasnt been finalized.
As for the video posted, it doesnt state he was controlling the darkness, just that it enveloped him, which makes sense since he went through the Final Keyhole

 

[Bobsican]

Yeah, the Naminé stuff doesn't really scale to anyone beyond maybe Environmental Destruction for Naminé herself.
And yeah, the 3-A to Low 2-C stuff requires that each made up world in Castle Oblivion includes the Realm of Light that would host it, which requires more assumptions.
As for the Marluxia stuff, which star? I can't see it, please say the timestamp separately as when you post the video it leads me always to the start of it.
And for Ansem, what Cyber said.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Ansem translation:

docs.google.com

Should mention none of the translations I could acquire for the ansem page from the kh memorial ultimania support the notion he is controlling darkness, rather supports he is sustaining the realm

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

As for the video posted, it doesnt state he was controlling the darkness, just that it enveloped him, which makes sense since he went through the Final Keyhole

I don't know why it'd need to be stated, it's obvious he controls it, that's one of the main plot points of the game and even the secondary canon LN states such. Defeating Ansem in conjunction causes the darkness he controls to disperse thus he's not sustaining it, he's the controller.

Ansem translation:

docs.google.com

Should mention none of the translations I could acquire for the ansem page from the kh memorial ultimania support the notion he is controlling darkness, rather supports he is sustaining the realm

Actually no, it doesn't support him sustaining at all. Nothing in there implies he sustains it, it just says he goes there and that defeating him will restore all worlds, which is exactly what Door to KH does at the end of the game, this has nothing nor any implication of Ansem sustaining the context is even worse then I thought.

This is specifically what they're talking about with "Restore all worlds" cause the current worlds in KH, aka Tarzan's, Wonderland, etc. aren't in darkness. If anything, to completely debunk the notion that Ansem is "sustaining".

Here you can see the world does not fall apart upon Ansem's death.

So yeah nevermind, it's not even him controlling the darkness, nothing in these translations imply he's sustaining, the defeat of Ansem stops the door from Kingdom Hearts opening darkness upon all worlds, which is consistent with the journal entries.

 

[Cyberblader90]

will respond tomorrow
in the mean time, been asked to post this

My view in Kingdom Hearts' power level by Kirito352 on DeviantArt

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

No offense to the guy but unless someone fed him the wrong arguments some of his refutes are ones we not already clarified but he never once points out:

This may be true, but, while this may be just a design thing, the damage it received was just a gash in the front part while the rest of it appeared to be in good enough condition. Plus, it's likely Ansem's Kingdom Hearts was never complete either, considering there were still many worlds that the Heartless didn't take over, either because they didn't reach them by that time or because they were stopped by Sora. Personally, I think Xemnas' Kingdom Hearts should atleast scale to a fraction of Ansem's, which would lead to Sora and Riku scaling to 1/2 of Xemnas', since they beat him together.

The gash in the front part is irrelevant, Xemnas literally states he needed to start all over meaning it was completely ruined, Ansem's was never ruined and had virtually 200+ worlds from both calc values I've seen. This is a false equivalence and this seems moreso like him wanting Xemnas to scale rather then looking at the facts.

The argument here is that an Ansem-Riku easily defeated Roxas in 358/2 Days, who should be atleast comparable to Sora. At the end of the first game, Ansem was instantly destroyed by his Kingdom Hearts. There are some points against this:

1- At that point Ansem fought Sora, Goofy and Donald many times in a row and was visibly injured before being destroyed by Kingdom Hearts.
2- Ansem is a Heartless, a being of darkness. He's inherently vulnerable to light powers.
3- Riku was using his own dark powers and only took Ansem's appearance.
So, while is likely this Kingdom Hearts' full power is overall superior Ansem, the gap shouldn't be that large to make the scaling unreliable.

Ansem being weakened is irrelevant, you cannot expect me to buy the idea that he was so weakened to the point where he suddenly just doesn't scale to the very thing we're trying to scale everyone to, we have no proof of Ansem scaling to artifical KH in the first place and now we want to scale him because of the potentiality of him scaling to it without being weakneed cause he was one-shotted while weakned...? What? No. Also him being weak to light powers would **** over this persons very argument as I can just apply that to say "Oh well Sora doesn't scale to Ansem cause he's using the light of the keyblade to exploit his weakness, he's not physically hurting him". He can't try to argue KH only one-shotted Ansem cause of light magic but then ignore that's the very same thing Sora uses to try and scale him.

TBF, I think it's worth noting that Sora doesn't fully scale to this Kingdom Hearts (atleast before later games). It required Sora and Riku together in order to defeat Xemnas powered by an incomplete Kingdom Hearts. I'm saying this because there are people saying "if Sora and other characters are that powerful, why do the villains need to make Kingdom Hearts?". The short answer is "they aren't, atleast not entirely"."

Taking two people to beat someone doesn't suddenly divide a tiering in half. There'd need to be proof shown of a combined attack required to harm the foe, both Sora and Riku were capable of harming Xemnas at separate occasions, Riku literally matches Xemnas' power at one point in the fight. This is trying to lessen a characters power in order to attempt to make their scaling more acceptable, it doesn't work when it's pretty clear the character themself would fully scale if the scaling itself is true.

This argument comes from a scene from the movie and the game used to argue that they can't be scaled to Zeus, but it's misinterpreted. Previously in the movie, the rock titan tanked one of Zeus' lightning bolts, but later he threw more than one which caused the damage seen. But even then the titan was still standing and just retreated with the rest, mostly because Hercules joined the battle and released all the gods. Is likely the titans don't even need to scale to Zeus to scale to the constellation feat since in the movie is stated "the gods" can create constellations but it's never specified it's just Zeus who's capable of this.

What happened in the movie is completely irrelevant, the game is what matters, in the game he is clearly far superior to them and this isn't even the main argument against Zeus feat.

One of the Gummi Phone loading screens shows Sora commenting about his lightning magic being inferior to Zeus'. However, we must remember that at this point of the game Sora had lost most of his power, and besides Sora doesn't specialize only on lightning magic nor is he a magic-focused character like Donald, being more of a jack-of-all-trades. Also, this argument makes it seem like Zeus' level of power is completely unreachable to Sora. Even if Sora was weaker than Zeus (at that time) is not by much. 2 titans were able to restrain Zeus, while Sora and his friends could beat 1-2 titans in groups of 3-4.

Sora literally compares his thunder magic to be sparks compared to Zeus, in any verse that's giving off the implication that the character is leagues above you, him being the jack of all trades is irrelevant, his magic is equal to his strength so if Zeus' magic far outweighs him then it thus can be used.

Another argument is that the constellation feat is above KH's feat of restoring several worlds, thinking that this messes up the series' power scale since at that point the artificial KHs were treated as the most powerful forces in the series at that time. But I think people ignore some details about this: 1- KH's calc is kind of a low-end since in the scene we never see the end of the worlds being restored and just skips to another scene. Therefore we never get to know the total of worlds that were restored. 2- KH's not only restored worlds, but also it's inhabitants. It's likely some of these world contained some individuals that were similarly powerful to the gods of Hercules' world. This is a good possibility considering there are worlds with beings like Genie, who is noted as having "phenomenal cosmic powers".

KH's feat isn't a low end at all, if anything it's actually a highball unless you're using Cyber's re-calc which would be a low end of the original highball, also the "end of worlds" are all the worlds being restored during the Kairi cutscene as asked and confirmed by Sora and Goofy during their visit into the end of the world. KH restoring it's inhabitants is not a feat, no inhabitant of any world thusfar have shown to be equal in strength to gods of Hercules' world.

People argue that Zeus' used telekinesis to perform the feat, which is a power he never used in battle and therefore can't be scaled to others. However this is just a matter of Attack Potency. The feat just tells us the energy Zeus needed to do it, while telekinesis is just a way he has to apply that energy. There's no reason to believe that he can't put that same energy into his other abilities, like his lightning bolts, which should be his main power due to the whole "god of lightning" thing. Another topic I want to talk about is about people thinking that the main protagonists/antagonists don't have feats of their own to make this scaling consistent. There are feats, some of them overlooked in my opinion, that actually support character being on this level.

I'm sorry but this is just a bad argument. Simply calling it a "matter of attack potency" when telekinesis is one of the most common abilities in fiction that commonly does not scale to a persons statistics physically but rather as an extension of their abilities is just silly. There's no real refute here other then the person misunderstanding telekinesis.

One of the most straight forward feats. Xehanort creates an orb of darkness (similar to the one that destroyed Destiny Islands) that destroys the Land of Departure and covers it in darkness. Just a reminder, destroying one world in Kingdom Hearts also includes it's respective star. The only argument against this feat would be that Heartless do this all the time by reaching a world's keyhole and taking the heart, making this feat seem unimpressive. But unlike the Heartless, Xehanort is never shown interacting with neither this world's keyhole or it's heart. If he had done that, then he could've just let the world be consumed by itself without the need of creating that giant orb of darkness. Not to mention the Land of Departure was fine and without a change before Xehanort casted the darkness that destroyed it. This feat also brings me to talk about another that I think it's been overlooked.

Orb of darkness slowly absorb parts of the world and don't fully destroy it, this is misunderstanding that End of the World shows not only is all of the world not destroyed by these things, this is most definitely not scalable and Terra and them literally needed to run from this darkness orb.

Upon a returning from the Realm of Darkness, Aqua restored Castle Oblivion to the form of her old home, which in turn also restored the whole world. It's worth noting that Aqua didn't show any signs of strain while doing it and was also noted to be tired and still recovering. This shows that this is not her limit.

Aqua uses a specific non-combat applicable keyblade spell to seal and unseal the world, this is the entire reason they needed her or else Sora and co. could do it without Aqua's help. This is not scaleable at all.

During one of the ReMind Data Battle, Xion performs a spell that changes the battlefield by creating a sun. We know this is a replica created from Xion's battle data and that Sora's own data clone canonically fought her as well as the other O13 members' replicas. It's unlikely to be just an illusion or some esthetic background change, considering other feats from the series. It's also confirmed the data battles, also known as Limit Cut battles, showcase the abilities of the bosses without being restrained by gameplay, reflecting the true power of the characters. Just like Aqua's feat, there's no sign of strain or effort from Xion.

This ability would work if there wasn't two problems with it, for one problem, it's a replication of Roxas' feat from KH 2, it's meant to mirror Sora and Roxas' memories which Roxas' memory is of twilight town. There's also the issue that this is a random data version of Xion that does this feat within data, the real Xion never even replicates a feat like this. It's very iffy whether the scaling for it works or not there too, but this is a secondary point, both sun feats are representations of twilight town which are the most important memories to Roxas and Xion. But even if you want to deny both of these and accept it as a legit feat, it's a clear as day outlier. Line it up with the other feats the characters do, I dare you.

This comes from a scene from Melody of Memory, used as supposed proof that Xehanort couldn't use Kingdom Hearts' full power yet. The problem is that statement is taken in the wrong context, since it doesn't clearly state anything about Xehanort being unable to use it and can be taken in different ways. Xehanort could already have had control over it's full power but needed some focus to project that power across all the worlds, then they sealed him in Scala Ad Caelum to buy some time (though he still summoned it).

This is attempting to argue there's other meanings of the word rather then just accepting the clear statement of the word. I'm sorry but no, this is just blatantly wanting the feat to be a feat. It's clear as day what the wording means here especially post-battle where Xehanort does his entire speech explaining how it's too late for everyone. This isn't a refute this is trying to say "well he COULD have had control over it" without any proof. The burden has not been met and this can be dismissed ala hithen's razor.


Not even going to bother refuting the "scaling messes up everything" I legit have no clue where this comes from or who argued this but this was never argued once on this thread of VBW us that sounds like a random discord server which is weird to use when they said the original purpose was regarding downgrade thread which obviously refers to this one.

Same thing with "why do they even need Kingdom Hearts" I literally never once seen this argument ever.

Funnily enough they purposefully ignore the actual refute used against Xehanort's KH feat which was that everyone literally stated they were going to die to it if they didn't stop it.

Overall this gives me the vibe of wanting these feats to work rather then accepting this, it's also a very bias take on the feats, I'm not saying in a negative way I'm saying in the, it's only focusing on the tier 4 feats and not looking at all the feats in conjunction to give a consistent basis, if I wanted to accept those 4 feats I could post the dozen of tier 5 and lower feats they have. Defo do not agree with this at all.

 

[MrWarnerTheGreat]

Siding with Giver's stance more than ever now.

 

[Bobsican]

I don't know why it'd need to be stated, it's obvious he controls it, that's one of the main plot points of the game and even the secondary canon LN states such. Defeating Ansem in conjunction causes the darkness he controls to disperse thus he's not sustaining it, he's the controller.



Actually no, it doesn't support him sustaining at all. Nothing in there implies he sustains it, it just says he goes there and that defeating him will restore all worlds, which is exactly what Door to KH does at the end of the game, this has nothing nor any implication of Ansem sustaining the context is even worse then I thought.

This is specifically what they're talking about with "Restore all worlds" cause the current worlds in KH, aka Tarzan's, Wonderland, etc. aren't in darkness. If anything, to completely debunk the notion that Ansem is "sustaining".

Here you can see the world does not fall apart upon Ansem's death.

So yeah nevermind, it's not even him controlling the darkness, nothing in these translations imply he's sustaining, the defeat of Ansem stops the door from Kingdom Hearts opening darkness upon all worlds, which is consistent with the journal entries.

The EotW not visibly vanishing can be explained by another way, there's just nothing to vanish in that area to begin with, Ansem even calls it an endless void, and KH itself just got sealed from both sides by Sora and Mickey, meaning that there being nothing visibly vanishing isn't an anti-feat, and the stuff that remained appears to be the Realm Between, more specifically the path to Castle Oblivion, as denoted in CoM
Heartless also generally are amped by the darkness (As clearly seen with them being stronger in the RoD than the Realm of Light), so Ansem can scale to the feat by being amped by the darkness he collected.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

The EotW not visibly vanishing can be explained by another way, there's just nothing to vanish in that area to begin with, Ansem even calls it an endless void, and KH itself just got sealed from both sides by Sora and Mickey, meaning that there being nothing visibly vanishing isn't an anti-feat, and the stuff that remained appears to be the Realm Between, more specifically the path to Castle Oblivion, as denoted in CoM
Heartless also generally are amped by the darkness (As clearly seen with them being stronger in the RoD than the Realm of Light), so Ansem can scale to the feat by being amped by the darkness he collected.

Wait so let me get this straight, you're attempting to argue Ansem 5-B to 4-A for sustaining a planet, but you also admit this planet is nothingness? This means that you directly either don't have a feat since this is all a void. This is with accepting this possibility that's not at all supported by the narrative, you literally see everything get restored and things go back to normal AFTER KH is sealed on both sides, it's an anti feat your argument of the void is unfounded cause what he actually says is "behold the endless abyss", which isn't a void as you're thinking but actually a "great space". I have no clue where you got the assumption abyss = void from but it's very much unfounded and would need to be proven that's what Ansem meant.

I don't see why darkness getting amped is relevant at all, no darkness scales to the feat you want to scale Ansem too unless you're trying to scale him to the darkness of the heart of all worlds but again, unfounded.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Kingdom Hearts (All Cutscenes) HD 1.5 Remix 1080p Movie - YouTube

End of the world is made of several world pieces, it isnt just an empty void. Goofy also reaffirms the realm will collapse upon defeating ansem

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Kingdom Hearts (All Cutscenes) HD 1.5 Remix 1080p Movie - YouTube

End of the world is made of several world pieces, it isnt just an empty void. Goofy also reaffirms the realm will collapse upon defeating ansem

Which as we see of Ansem's defeat the collapse happens post heart of all worlds being sealed cause the defeat of Ansem stops him from opening the door unleashing darkness to every world.

This is also consistent with the journal entries:
"Second entry
As a researcher and ruler of his world, he studied the Heartless and delved into the many secrets of the worlds. While studying the heart and the darkness within it, he was possessed by darkness and ultimately destroyed his own world. He sacrificed his body to attain great power and later possessed Riku's to regain a physical presence. Failure to stop him means the end of all worlds.

Ansem
He tried to open the door to Kingdom Hearts, but fell to Sora in the end.
Once again, Riku finds himself face-to-face with his nemesis."

So this isn't a void nor is it a sustaining feat for Ansem.

 

[Cyberblader90]

will be posting tomorrow

 

[Bobsican]

Uhh... the door didn't have darkness to begin with, but light, the darkness the princesses of heart were blocking was related to the darkness from the Keyhole that leads to End of the World, meaning that Ansem was already threatening multiple worlds without even using KH yet.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Uhh... the door didn't have darkness to begin with, but light, the darkness the princesses of heart were blocking was related to the darkness from the Keyhole that leads to End of the World, meaning that Ansem was already threatening multiple worlds without even using KH yet.

Darkness was pouring out of the door here, "threatening multiple worlds" isn't a feat, there's an entire reason Bill isn't physically 2-A on his page. His threat to multiple worlds was that he could spread heartless into them to cause them to destroy the worlds in the same manner they usually do. Notice how after that entire darkness bit happens in Hollow Bastion the heartless get stronger in every world.

 

[Bobsican]

Yeah, and when Ansem called for KH light came out instead of darkness, not that much darkness came out from KH anyways.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Yeah, and when Ansem called for KH light came out instead of darkness, not that much darkness came out from KH anyways.

It has both is the point, there's no real single for either, the other side of the door hosts the realm of darkness. For the light scene, is there any secret guide or alternate explanation for why it came out? I always interpreted it as Sora's conviction turned it into light.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, not really as far I'm aware, however, Sora does point out that deep down in the darkness there's light, which also reaffirmed by others in other parts of the series (Most notably KHCoM and KHII), so it seems it's simply naturally light, oh, and now that I think about it, the reason Mickey and Sora sealed the door was to avoid Heartless coming out of it, so the darkness may come from those.
IIRC it was confirmed in an interview that the reason Riku couldn't just exist the RoD with the door and push the door alongside Sora on the same side was because not anyone can pass the door as it depends on how much light or darkness the user holds or so.
Say, RoD natives (Heartless) can go from the RoD KH to the RoL, but RoL natives (Mickey, Riku and Aqua) can't, instead they can only go from the RoL side of KH to the RoD side if anything IIRC. No wonder Mickey and Riku had to rely on Naminé to get out.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Well, not really as far I'm aware, however, Sora does point out that deep down in the darkness there's light, which also reaffirmed by others in other parts of the series (Most notably KHCoM and KHII), so it seems it's simply naturally light, oh, and now that I think about it, the reason Mickey and Sora sealed the door was to avoid Heartless coming out of it, so the darkness may come from those.

Wouldn't that also imply the light comes from Riku, Mickey or Aqua since the light comes out of the door the same way?

 

[Bobsican]

I've edited my previous reply, and it seems it can go either way.
And considering how the events of the RoD side are clarified in 0.2, it doesn't seem like Mickey, Riku or Aqua were interacting with the KH door at that moment, after all, Mickey and Sora sealed it after the light that came out defeated Ansem, not before.

 

[Bobsican]

Okay, I did some more research...
Kairi states that the door was going to unleash darkness at any moment, I wonder if this changes anything.
And...

The Message in the World Prison’s Computer
Oh, born from hearts, children of darkness lacking hearts
Consume all the worlds and create the “End of the World”
Collect all the hearts, and complete the single great heart.
All hearts that became one. The one heart that became all.
In other words, the kingdom of hearts, “Kingdom Hearts”
That is the great heart. It conceals the great darkness.
Children of darkness, now return to the one darkness that seals the light
The strength of the heart devoid of darkness will open “Kingdom Hearts”.
There are seven hearts that lack darkness in the world. The seven are the keyhole and the key.
There are two who will close the door to darkness. Two keys will close the door.
The door to darkness that seals the light. The door that beings of the light cannot pass.
Only darkness that is born from darkness can pass through. Towards the center of the heart’s darkness.
Oh, born from hearts, children of darkness lacking hearts.
Until the door of darkness opens, devour every single heart!

On the same interview...

Then, why didn’t Riku go back to the other side of the door to this realm once he got back his body?
Nomura: Various people ask me that as well, but it was clearly written in the World Prison’s computer. It said that only darkness can pass through that door. Riku and the King are not beings of darkness, so that is why they could not go through the door.

Oh, and this seems relevant for the "endless abyss" Ansem mentions at the end on KHI (On the same interview):

Which worlds did Pluto travel when he had that letter?
Nomura: I can say that he appeared in worlds that do not appear in the game.... well, other than the current worlds, there are other worlds that the Heartless erased. The End of the World did not exist at first and is a world that is made up of erased worlds put together. Also, there is that place the door to Kingdom Hearts appears. At first that was another world, so that means that Sora and the others are now residing in that world which returned to what it once was.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

So a lot of that seems to deconfirm Ansem sustains it.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

To quickly go through everything

AP:
Agreed upon that 3-A and High 4-C are both null and void, though there is a backup statement we found with Ursula, who has full control over the seas and warps it during her fight, the keyblade is also compared to the trident in power so this could potentially give Sora and co. High 6-A.

Speed:
Agreed upon that MFTL+ is unfounded and that Massively Hypersonic to Relativistic with FTL+ attack speed works.

These are the universally agreed upon changes so far, is this correct?

 

[Bobsican]

Yes, that's the case.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Quick note, I heard people were using the manga to see if there was anymore feats for Sora. Do not use any manga version outside of mangasee, virtually all of those mangas have horrible english and are incredibly mistranslated, for an example.

This is a scene from mangelo where it states the darkness already consumed a distant space-time and that it will swallow the entire universe/multiverse:

https://s62.mkklcdnv61.com/************/k1/kingdom_hearts/chapter_40_dont_say_goodbye/6.jpg

The actual scene says this:

https://***********.com/read-online/Kingdom-Hearts-chapter-40-page-6.html

Another example is this scene where Cid establishes the cosmology as a multiverse:

https://s62.mkklcdnv61.com/************/k1/kingdom_hearts/chapter_24_olympus_colosseum/7.jpg

This is what it actually says:

https://***********.com/read-online/Kingdom-Hearts-chapter-24-page-7.html

So yeah use mangasee if you're looking through the manga for feats, do not use any other manga site, they're badly made fan-translations.

 

[Bobsican]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/kingdom-hearts-kh-and-zeus-are-a-lie-plus-kh-world-upgrade.111560/

It is here

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yeah idk why 5-A got written out. TK feats are perfectly valid, no ifs ands or buts, and Xehanort blatantly yeets a moon.

 

[Cyberblader90]

it still exists, just for very few characters

Xehanort | VS Battles Wiki | Fandom

 

[Imaginym]

Yeah idk why 5-A got written out. TK feats are perfectly valid, no ifs ands or buts, and Xehanort blatantly yeets a moon.

When does that happen?

 

[Bobsican]

When does that happen?

KHIII Re:Mind
Also, we now have a Discord server to talk about the verse's statistics and so on, it's also spoiler free for those that don't want those.

 

[AntorusTheBurningThrone]

God, I totally forgot about VS Battles wiki. Been a couple years, huh? But yeah...

Just gonna say this. I've seen a lot of threats downplaying Xehanort to below the Foretellers, and I REALLY...REALLY want to know why.