Sora vs Kratos (1-3-0)

[Nonynho]

Uhh, where’s the law hax on the page?

on the Kingdom Hearts mention of the X-blade's AP

Kingdom Hearts (Entity)

Kingdom Hearts (キングダムハーツ Kingudamu Hātsu) is one of the major entities in the Kingdom Hearts universe. It is the heart of all worlds, and the source of ultimate power and wisdom. It can be seen as the heart of everything. Due to its great significance, it has repeatedly been sought by the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Law Manipulation (Created all worlds which run on different sets of rules and laws)

 

[Nonynho]

Sora is not going to do that in character. That's not even an ability used in combat anyways

...aaaand that's just what i thought.
Kratos' gonna be incapping him lol

 

[Hypertornado099]

...aaaand that's just what i thought.
Kratos' gonna be incapping him lol

The law manipulation justification is X-Blade being able to summon Kingdom Hearts and use its power, and Kingdom Hearts is able to create worlds, each with their own rules. This is useless in combat lol

 

[Nonynho]

The law manipulation justification is X-Blade being able to summon Kingdom Hearts and use its power, and Kingdom Hearts is able to create worlds, each with their own rules. This is useless in combat lol

got that impression immediately as i took more than 2min to find where was this Law Manip in the first place lol

 

[Epiccheev]

Kratos jiujitsuses the floaty boy FRA

 

[Bobsican]

I don't see anything in either video that'd give Kratos any issues. He's fought teleporters, precogs, fliers and time warpers that moved faster than him because of that (some being two, three, or all of the above) and gotten his hands on them all the same. Sora isn't giving him any trouble there.

And Sora has fought someone with all of those 4 qualities that could also control multiple avatars against him.

Only this time, he can just walk through all of the latter's attacks, absorb them to heal if need be and is starting from a significantly closer distance than any of his other fights.

What's the AP gap, again?

And Sora can't win via any speed amplification cause he's inherently slower.

Speed is equalized, so this isn't a reasoning per-say, unless Kratos has some speed amps of his own?

Are you saying that he can use wind and water spells to avoid being grabbed? Kratos could probably just attempt to grab him again- its not like Sora would repeatedly spam those moves every second. If he gets grappled, are there any magic spells he can use to push Kratos away?

Magic is quite cheap for him, in fact some Formchanges (aka, Element Form ones) have attributes favoring the act of spamming them. As for magic to push Kratos away, basically any surrounding AoE ones I'd imagine (Explosion, Proximity-style magic, etc).

 

[QualifiedDunlin100]

Doesn't SBA prevent kratos from hurting sora

 

[Nonynho]

Doesn't SBA prevent kratos from hurting sora

my thesis is that Sora seeing Kratos don't wanna hurt him will make him stop fighting...eventually.

 

[Planck69]

And Sora has fought someone with all of those 4 qualities that could also control multiple avatars against him.


What's the AP gap, again?


Speed is equalized, so this isn't a reasoning per-say, unless Kratos has some speed amps of his own?


Magic is quite cheap for him, in fact some Formchanges (aka, Element Form ones) have attributes favoring the act of spamming them. As for magic to push Kratos away, basically any surrounding AoE ones I'd imagine (Explosion, Proximity-style magic, etc).

Using clones also isn't new to Kratos at all. So overall, there's no particular mobility advantage that Sora has to prevent even a single point of contact the whole fight, which is what would be needed here to prevent himself from being grabbed.

Largely irrelevant here, but Kratos scales above creatures 10 times stronger than creatures equal to a being that can three-shot a creature stronger than baseline 1-C.

Kratos gets stronger and faster with time, albeit not as fast as he did with his Olympian abilities. And walking through attacks meant to push him back isn't new to him, and this was with beings that could output Immeasurable force.

 

[Planck69]

Looks at stamina

Actually why is this even a debate? Sora eventually just tires himself out before Kratos.

 

[Bobsican]

Sora's wincon is BFRing Kratos to a -High 1-A space.

 

[Planck69]

You mean 11-C, no need to make it sound more potent than it is. Is there any specific reason I am to think this is more potent than his resistance to Low 1-C BFR?

And even taking the most generous assumption that it is, I see Kratos just getting the hold off long before that happens anywyas.

 

[Bobsican]

Given it's a qualitative gap over a quantitative one (and beyond infinite qualitative layers of "depth" at that), getting back from it requires quite more specific feats and scale unless I'm missing something.

 

[Planck69]

Given it's a qualitative gap over a quantitative one (and beyond infinite qualitative layers of "depth" at that), getting back from it requires quite more specific feats and scale unless I'm missing something.

Yes, a qualitatively inferior one. It's certainly not infinitely worse than regular BFR obviously, but I struggle to see how it's potency compares against regular BFR resistance.

But fine, let's assume that it works, doesn't he need to kill Kratos for that to happen? That's just back to square one.

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

Sora does have impressive Acrobatics, Teleportation (Via multiple different methods, including often used forms such as Rage and Ultimate Form), can become momentarily Intangible, can use the Honey Pot formchange to literally slow enemies down via a copious amount of Honey (yes I'm serious), even if he's caught and can't escape for whatever reason, he can also Telekinetically manipulate his Keyblade (And even if Kratos grabbed that too, Sora can desummon and resummon it into his hands), and even if Sora starts to get tired, I believe he can renew his stamina via his Cure spells (Other supporters of the verse can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong anywhere), and all of that is WITHOUT the X-Blade, which also allows Sora portal creation if he so chose as a option.
Even if Kratos has experience with some of these, it doesn't inherently negate them being a factor, Sora is simply very difficult to land a hit on as of KH3, and if Kratos isn't trying to be lethal, I imagine Sora will teleport out of any hold Kratos does catch him in before he gets too tired to keep fighting, just to heal himself.

That said I don't know what Sora has that would put Kratos down. I haven't looked too carefully at Kratos's page, but I know he deals with some insane enemies. I do kinda agree with the "they eventually talk it out and sort of become friends" agenda unironically

 

[Bobsican]

Using clones also isn't new to Kratos at all. So overall, there's no particular mobility advantage that Sora has to prevent even a single point of contact the whole fight, which is what would be needed here to prevent himself from being grabbed.

I'm not denying that Kratos has a win condition, but you're acting like this makes it a decisive match.

Largely irrelevant here, but Kratos scales above creatures 10 times stronger than creatures equal to a being that can three-shot a creature stronger than baseline 1-C.

Kratos gets stronger and faster with time, albeit not as fast as he did with his Olympian abilities. And walking through attacks meant to push him back isn't new to him, and this was with beings that could output Immeasurable force.

Guess Sora having Reactive Power Level becomes handy here, although the LS gap is an issue.

Yes, a qualitatively inferior one. It's certainly not infinitely worse than regular BFR obviously, but I struggle to see how it's potency compares against regular BFR resistance.

But fine, let's assume that it works, doesn't he need to kill Kratos for that to happen? That's just back to square one.

Would depend on a resistance to Immersion (and one that can reach back from that amount of qualitative layers) over just resisting BFR, most likely, given that multiversal travel and qualitative layer travel are quite different nature-wise.

 

[Planck69]

Oh, so it's Immersion. Yeah, that would be an issue for Kratos currently. But again, it's kill based, and setting aside Sora being willing to do that to an opponent who isn't trying to hurt him, he'd have to have the means to kill in the first place.

Kratos can adapt to and negate abilities with his bare hands (as he did when he literally punched the time magic out of Castor and Pollux), so even if Sora teleports out of his hands, this would only happen once or twice before Kratos just nullifies it with his bare hands.

Everything mentioned above, from intangibility to teleportation to physical obstruction to portals to time slow to weapon control to telekinesis, is something his enemies have had and he's dealt with. Zeus, Ares, and the Fates alone have most of those concurrently.

 

[Hecky2222]

Wtf is -High 1-A?

 

[AlexSamDen]

Wtf is -High 1-A?

Same as H1A, just instead of (meta) qualitative superiority, it's inferiority

 

[Hecky2222]

Same as H1A, just instead of (meta) qualitative superiority, it's inferiority

How one achieves even meta inferiority wtf.

Plaotnical World below 11-C Fiction or what

 

[KirbyFan03]

Same as H1A, just instead of (meta) qualitative superiority, it's inferiority

I'm... I'm not sure that's how it works?

 

[AlexSamDen]

How one achieves even meta inferiority wtf.

Dreams and such

 

[Bobsican]

Oh, so it's Immersion. Yeah, that would be an issue for Kratos currently. But again, it's kill based, and setting aside Sora being willing to do that to an opponent who isn't trying to hurt him, he'd have to have the means to kill in the first place.

Kratos can adapt to and negate abilities with his bare hands (as he did when he literally punched the time magic out of Castor and Pollux), so even if Sora teleports out of his hands, this would only happen once or twice before Kratos just nullifies it with his bare hands.

Something something NLF, the upper border of Reactive Evolution reaching everything that has existed in the verse only applies with a statement confirming such capabilities, let alone stuff that's not even shown (in this case ability layers, given Sora resists power null).

Everything mentioned above, from intangibility to teleportation to physical obstruction to portals to time slow to weapon control to telekinesis, is something his enemies have had and he's dealt with. Zeus, Ares, and the Fates alone have most of those concurrently.

Uh, the honey stuff technically isn't time slow, more specifically it's treated separately from another ability Sora has to stop time, but the rest is fair enough on paper.

I'm... I'm not sure that's how it works?

It was either this or making nearly everyone and their mother High 1-A, which was consistently veheremently disagreed on by staff as it's below what most of the series has settled as a baseline reality, as much 99% of verses aren't made tier 1 just because fictional media exists in them. I personally disagree as it seems like there's absolutely no way for a plot to just have the twist of being shown as a 3D setting then recontextualized as 1-A or above from what I've been told, but it is what it is.

 

[Planck69]

Something something NLF, the upper border of Reactive Evolution reaching everything that has existed in the verse only applies with a statement confirming such capabilities, let alone stuff that's not even shown (in this case ability layers, given Sora resists power null).

.....? What even is this response? Kratos has evolved against far more esoteric abilities than Sora's teleportation, including the Power of the Fates, which allows teleportation of oneself and others anyways, and is considered one of the highest expressions of magic in the setting.

Hell, Castor and Pollux's powers come from the Amulet and allows them to teleport, and he adapted to that anyways.

Kratos can and has developed more layers mid-battle, half his layered resistances are that, so this is meaningless to him. He's also overcome resistance to power nullification as well specifically with Castor and Pollux.

 

[Hecky2222]

Reactive Evolution and Resistance Negation aren't really abilities that can be dismissed as "Something something NLF" to counter

 

[Planck69]

Especially with Mr. "I developed layered power null punches mid-fight" himself.

 

[Bobsican]

Reactive Evolution and Resistance Negation aren't really abilities that can be dismissed as "Something something NLF" to counter

Uh no, the page even brings up the concept of NLF

It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this power can obtain any ability whatsoever. Its extent and complexity only go as far its feats and scaling have gone for it, in relation up to countermeasures to powers that already exist in the setting or similar, in a case by case basis.

That said, Kratos having the feats to overcome a resistance to Power Null over time does change things, although Sora does have the capability to purify himself from that effect, so I don't think that's too effective in practice, now whether Kratos can suppress that too likely would need more specific feats.

 

[Planck69]

He just does it again and then its Sora's turn to prove he can purify nullification layered twice over. Kratos hopping layers is something he does multiple times.

And yeah, throwing out NLF without even looking at or asking about the ability is baffling.

 

[Bobsican]

Eh, what's layered is the application of power null in relation to a resistance, that doesn't inherently include the amount of layers required to remove the effect, as much layered durability negation doesn't suddendly include layered healing negation, for example.

 

[Planck69]

Eh, what's layered is the application of power null in relation to a resistance, that doesn't inherently include the amount of layers required to remove the effect.

Does or does Sora not have feats of removing layered power nullification? Keep in mind, Kratos is already starting with innate layered power nullification. Status Effect Removal isn't foreign to Kratos either nor is this a "status effect", he's plainly getting his powers nullified.

 

[Planck69]

Also can someone fix Sora's profile, that thing has no scans at all. I've not had to anything but point out things for Kratos cause everything can be found on his profile. I would hope Sora would eventually be the same.

 

[King_of_nothing13]

Sora is not going to do that in character. That's not even an ability used in combat anyways

Shh That doesn't fit the agenda

Jokes Aside fair enough

 

[Hypertornado099]

Sora doesn't use BFR in a fight often, in fact I'm pretty sure he's never really done it before outside of that 1 magic spell which makes enemies disappear, but thats not BFRing to the Final World

 

[Hecky2222]

Uh no, the page even brings up the concept of NLF



That said, Kratos having the feats to overcome a resistance to Power Null over time does change things, although Sora does have the capability to purify himself from that effect, so I don't think that's too effective in practice, now whether Kratos can suppress that too likely would need more specific feats.

Brochacho read what you are sending again and look at Planck's argument.

 

[Eseseso]

Isn't Kratos 10x above Baseline 1-C? That should give him a notable power advantage especially considering the two are likely comparable in skill.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Isn't Kratos 10x above Baseline 1-C? That should give him a notable power advantage especially considering the two are likely comparable in skill.

What's the reasoning for that?

 

[Planck69]

What's the reasoning for that?

Dragons are comparable to gods like Baldur. Drakes are tenfold in strength compared to the latter ("what they lack in size, they make up for tenfold in strength"). Kratos > Drakes.

Course, all this means is Kratos's durability is gonna be high enough to weather Sora's attacks since he won't exactly oneshot the kid.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Brochacho read what you are sending again and look at Planck's argument.

Bob is saying that it wouldn't matter if its layered because Sora isn't resisting it, just curing it. Kind of like how if you have layered soul erasure, it probably wouldn't require layered mid godly regen to heal from

 

[Planck69]

Why are we even assuming he can do that? Like, there seems to be a step skipped there.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Kind of like how if you have layered soul erasure, it probably wouldn't require layered mid godly regen to heal from

Layers bypass resistances, but they don't always make it harder to cure/purify