Kingdom Hearts is canon to Toy Story (again)

[Bobsican]

So, I was looking at the reasons at the time for the inability to fully consider KH as canon to Toy Story, and the main reason evidently involves there being no reference to KH from TS after the events, but I recently found this bit of information from the official Disney 23 magazine (namely the Winter 2018 issue) on the matter:

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www.kh13.com

The biggest challenge Pixar faced when collaborating on the world was the simple question: Where did this game fit in the Toy Story timeline? "Why didn't any Toy Story characters mention Sora in the movies" (sic) Katz asks. As one can imagine, the Pixar team is meticulous about continuity.

Besides the ton of other proof of Pixar approving the events and getting quite involved in the development over this merely being a licensed product, this confirming the lack of a reference in the films being on purpose while keeping it in the continuity seems to make the canonicity intent clear as day, especially as the rule changes made by then strictly speaking don't demand this as hard-proof either way, instead being merely ideal recommendations for stronger proof.

To be clear, Jason Katz is the Story Supervisor of Pixar Animation Studios, so he's far off from a minor employee merely voicing opinions, instead having proper authority on this stuff.

Ultimately this'd really just result on editing the note on the pages for Woody and Buzz to just fully assert the canon crossover nature, if accepted.

 

[ThatBoiRick]

Wow that was quick. Can we consider this patch 2.0? Agree

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

Simple enough. It's funny to think Riku bodying Beast canonically occurs in the Toy Story Universe, but the crossover makes sense and clearly they thought the details through to make it canon, I agree.

 

[Bobsican]

Oh, KH works in a multiverse setting, and the TS characters were carried from their own universe to a copy made by Young Xehanort. I'm sure you know and are just kidding, but I'm clarifying for those not into the series to avoid confusion.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

agree

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

Oh, KH works in a multiverse setting, and the TS characters were carried from their own universe to a copy made by Young Xehanort. I'm sure you know and are just kidding, but I'm clarifying for those not into the series to avoid confusion.

Yes, it was a jest, but it is a good idea to clarify for everyone else that the Toy Story world we physically visit in KHIII is a copy of the original, you are right.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[MunchkinGuy]

What are you trying to confirm here?

 

[Bobsican]

What are you trying to confirm here?

That the events in the KH3 world of Toy Story are canonical to the Toy Story series.

 

[MunchkinGuy]

That the events in the KH3 world of Toy Story are canonical to the Toy Story series.

I don't think it can be proven one way or the other. The metaphysical concepts of Heart stuff are more relevant to the games than the films. But the staff was involved with Toy Story and Monsters, so can't be disproven.

 

[JJSliderman]

“Buzz how come you didn’t summon a heartless to kill Lotso”

“uhh”

 

[Bobsican]

I don't think it can be proven one way or the other. The metaphysical concepts of Heart stuff are more relevant to the games than the films. But the staff was involved with Toy Story and Monsters, so can't be disproven.

I don't think this particularly disproves anything to begin with, as while by default the burden of proof is on the side that wants to prove canonicity (meaning that the default is being non-canon), there's a ton of proof given in the OP confirming the intent granted by the highest authorities at Pixar for these purposes for the KH events being a part of the Toy Story canon, so this'd just be a Perfect Solution Fallacy.

“Buzz how come you didn’t summon a heartless to kill Lotso”

“uhh”

...he didn't even do that in KH either, Young Xehanort was the one summoning them if anything. Either way the stuff they got in KH specifically only applied while within the copy of their universe made by YX.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Hasty12345]

Does Andy get multiversal now?

 

[Bobsican]

Short answer: No
Long answer: Andy wasn't involved and thus can't scale to anyone.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I suppose this looks alright, but what would this effect for the currently accepted scaling?

 

[Bobsican]

All "upgrades" the Toy Story characters got in the KH incident would remain within a separate key as they were stated to be caused by being carried to this other universe.

“There’s a darkness we are missing and must reclaim. The way hearts connect in this world can provide us with a clue. So we made a copy of the world and then pulled those hearts apart. I wonder how you’ll handle the strain.” Instead of giving a real answer, young Xehanort quietly opened another Corridor of Darkness.
“Wait! What does that mean?” Sora called for him to stop, but young Xehanort only paused for a moment.
“Don’t let me down.” With those chilling parting words, he melted into the shadows.
Sora, Goofy, and Donald were too busy keeping Gigas’s fists at bay to chase him. Before long, the robot’s strength won out and sent them all tumbling away.
“Look out!”
Woody caught Sora, while Buzz opened his wings and managed to rescue Donald and Goofy.
“Woody! What is going on? Is this toy a friend…or foe?” Buzz yelled.
The Gigas robot chose that moment to fire one of its powerful cannons.
“I think we’ve got your answer!” the toy cowboy shouted back as he shielded Sora and his friends. They barely managed to get behind the cover of the other toys on display—the battle against the giant robot was starting to seem hopeless. Unless they tried something new.
“Sora! You’re up!” Donald smiled up at Sora.
“Yeah! If the Heartless know how to do it, there’s no reason you can’t,” Goofy agreed.
Sora cocked his head to one side, unsure of what they were getting at. “Do what?”
Donald pointed. “Over there!”
Another Gigas without a Heartless at the helm stood tall and powerful, just waiting for him.
“Brilliant! I’m on it!” Now that he knew what they meant, Sora dashed over to the Gigas’s feet and jumped inside the cockpit in its head.
I’ve never operated a mech before, but I bet it’ll be fun. Plus, I’ve flown the Gummi Ship, right? Sora punched a random button.
“Wawak!” Donald scrambled out of the way of the cannon fire.
“Sorry!”
Uh, maybe not. Sora targeted the hostile Gigas bearing down on him. Okay, now we have a fighting chance.
Donald, Goofy, Woody, and Buzz cheered him on from below.
Sora’s clever piloting beat back the enemy Gigas, and each one fell still after the Heartless vanished from its cockpit. After an intense battle, the last of the robots stood motionless, and Sora hopped down from the pilot seat.
Seeing the immobile robots, Buzz fell into thought.
“Buzz?” Sora asked with concern.
“It’s nothing,” Buzz replied dismissively. “I’m confused. That guy in the black coat—did he say he made a copy of the real world? What’s that mean?”
“It…probably means they split this world in two—your friends in one world, us in the other. Only one of the worlds is real, and the other is just really convincing.”
“You can’t be serious. Oh! That’s right, you’re from a video game.” Buzz snorted at Sora’s theory. “Well, maybe in your game that’s how things work, but here in reality you can’t ‘split worlds.’”
Well, Buzz’s reaction was understandable. Sora probably wouldn’t believe it either if someone tried to tell him his world was not only one of many, but one of two parallel versions of itself.
“This is ridiculous. Woody, let’s go.” Buzz turned away and walked off.
“I admit, it does sound just a little far-fetched. But say we have been taken to some kind of alternate world. That would explain why your laser’s real,” Woody admonished him gently. “And is it really that crazy? Worse than ‘evil emperors’ and ‘protecting the galaxy’? Any of that ring a bell?” he added.

The above is from the KH3 novel, but for those that'd want to check the in-game scene (which is about the same but merely skips meta-narration) there's this, but overall the above claim is fair to conclude from this information.

That said, with YX confirming that the toys of TS have KH hearts gained by being loved by someone...:

“I thought I made it clear. I am testing the strength of their bonds.” He avoided Sora’s swift downward slash with a quick step back. “In this world, toys have hearts. And those hearts come from a powerful bond. So what happens when those bonds are stretched to their limit? When they are worlds apart, can cloth and plastic hold on to their hearts?”

...as well as this also being stated in the KH3 novel below...:

“Besides, if we go back to the real world, we’ll never see you again, right?” Woody asked.
“But…what about Andy?” Sora asked, starting to worry again. “You care about him so much.”
It was Andy’s love that had given all the toys hearts, so of course they wanted to get back to the real world, where he was, as soon as they could.
“And he’s still right here with us,” Buzz said with conviction.
“If we follow our hearts, we’ll find him again,” Woody added.
Sora could agree with that.
Oh— It doesn’t matter who you are or where, as long as you’re connected.
“So, Sora, are you goin’ after that guy in the black coat?”
Organization XIII had caused so much trouble for Woody and the toys; their plans had to be stopped before they did something awful to more worlds and more people like his friends.
“Something tells me we can’t join you on that mission,” said Buzz in an understanding tone. Woody stopped and turned back, pointing at Sora’s chest. “That’s okay…because you’ve become part of our hearts.”

...one could also argue that they should innately have hearts as it's evidently made a specific feature of the TS setting, but that'd be about it as scaling doesn't really change out of this whole deal being overall isolated outside of that, thus being limited to separate keys the pertinent pages already have, so the main appeal of the changes is revamping the note in the affected pages to just affirm the canonicity of the events.

 

[Vietthai96]

This is oke to me, though the supporters need to work out on the affected scaling chain

 

[MunchkinGuy]

You know what, Bobsican? I may not fully agree with the canon thing in the context of the movies, but the quotes you've given over the years have now won me over.

My arguments were too subjective, and for the purposes of the Wiki, it should be canon, IMO

 

[KingTempest]

This works

 

[Bobsican]

You know what, Bobsican? I may not fully agree with the canon thing in the context of the movies, but the quotes you've given over the years have now won me over.

My arguments were too subjective, and for the purposes of the Wiki, it should be canon, IMO

TBH the only potential plot hole with the KH lore in mind is the unopened Buzz in TS2 coming to life even though on paper he shouldn't have been owned by any human yet, but given that Stinky Pete got care granted to him by Al even while still boxed, it'd be fair to assume that such Buzz was simply enjoyed by some passing kid, which wouldn't be too much of a reach considering that several other animated toys also inhabited Al's Toy Barn, as well as Buzz's extreme popularity in-universe (case in point Sox's toys being sold out at the time Andy's mom went to buy a Lightyear toy, as well as there being a shortage of Buzz toys in their debut as stated in TS2).

Pixar's method of storytelling also aligns weirdly well with KH's, as it's stated that they assume that the audience is very smart and they appeal for the highest common denominator, so it'd be fair to say that they expect to not need to spoon-feed this sort of information in the movies.

https://archive.org/details/the-art-of-toy-story-3/page/n23/mode/2up

John Lasseter sums up the respect the artists feel for Arndt: “The level of intelligence Michael brought to the table is fantastic. We believe our audiences are very, very smart, We aim for the highest common denominator in our movies, and we know the audience will be there.

Thanks for being reasonable in any case.

 

[Bobsican]

Okay, 3 staff members are fine with this and the grace period has passed, with that in mind the scaling is being handled here and this thread can be closed.