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Kingdom Hearts Series: The Tier 2 stuff

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Bump. Would different time axis' be better ? Because they did state that directly after the different time flow statement. Sorry for the long wait for response... This thing was giving me error messages for an hour straight
 
It was also stated in the same conversation that that each world has a different sense of past, present, and future.... Does that more point towards them each being their own time.
 
I also posted the scan of the Lilo and Stitch world being refered to as a universe. And yeah that worlds explicity exist on Seperate Time Axes, not just having different time flows. So they should definitely be seperate space times.
 
Bump. I agree with Leogian in the sense I believe them having different time axis' plus different senses of past, present, and future should justify them being alternate timelines in design...
 
From Ever.

"KH3 literally, directly calls worlds planets, them having different flows of time means basically nothing..."
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Although I know one argument for this may be that this could in fact be an outlier overall seeing as it is above just about everything in the verse by an infinite degree. But, that's not my fight.
Click to expand...
This literally wouldn't be an outlier at all. The feats they have for Tier 4 are incredibly casual to say the least. Zeus doing a Tier 4 feat would be a bare minimum, especially when you see the other feats done in that range are just through an attack midway through battle or by powering up to another state. Nothing hints at Aqua transforming Castle Oblivion taking any real effort for her either overall.

If we accept the cosmology as this, an incomplete Kingdom Hearts' feat would be 2-C at worst (200 worlds were counted in the one calc that was meant to find the GBE by I think it was Ever), Xemnas merging with an incomplete would become 2-C to 2-B, Vanitas using an Incomplete X-Blade which is = Incomplete Kingdom Hearts, etc.

Either way, Tier 2 is pretty consistent with the verse when most of the Tier 4 feats become Tier 2 if the cosmology is revised on the series. The Zeus feat literally has characters restricting themselves respectively when they go into worlds in fear of muddling, so trying to act like it's "the most consistent thing for them" is flawed.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
From Ever.
"KH3 literally, directly calls worlds planets, them having different flows of time means basically nothing..."
Click to expand...
I know that the Everlasting used to be an expert of the series here, but that refutes NONE of the evidence we've shown for them being direct universes. Refer to the Lilo and Stitch things Leogian posted because this input is useless unless he's actually going to assess presented evidence on the thread. That's literally just him stating, "Oh well I think it's this way personally."
 
That's because his reply was to the different time flows, not Lilo and Stitch.
 
Now here is the reply to Lilo and Stitch.

"And this supports what...? Also, Deep Space is literally a spaceship, it calling the Grand Councilwoman "overseer of the universe" doesn't mean worlds are universes, especially when, again, KH3 explicitly calls worlds planets."
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
That's because his reply was to the different time flows, not Lilo and Stitch.
Click to expand...
Okay? That wasn't the only evidence presented for universe-sized worlds in Kingdom Hearts is the point. He didn't really say much against the time flow thing either other than "they are just planets at best" which included no elaboration or such.
 
Inverted Tempest said:
Okay? That wasn't the only evidence presented for universe-sized worlds in Kingdom Hearts is the point. He didn't really say much against the time flow thing either other than "they are just planets at best" which included no elaboration or such.
Click to expand...
You don't get what I was saying. He wasn't yet addressing everything at that point, just the points with the Time Flow issue. In which he noted, having a different time flow doesn't even count as evidence for worlds being universes (which is true). Once again, his comment wasn't meant to address everything. Just that.
 
Ever,

"A massive core of energy lay beyond the door sought by the Heartless. It may be the ultimate goal of the Heartless. But what is that energy? I have devised a hypothesis, based upon my observations of the Heartless. The Heartless feed on other's hearts, and they yearn for that energy core. That thing beyond the door must be a heart, too--the heart of this world. There is no proof, but, having felt that immense energy, I am certain. That was the heart of the world. The Heartless are trying to take hearts not only from all living creatures, but from the planet itself. But what do they mean to do with the heart of the world?"

-Ansem's Report 6
 
Deep Space is still the world of Lilo and Stitch, it's not just a spaceship as that would be a horrendous understatement. Stitch literally stole a Red Police Cruiser, which is following the exact same course of events of how he got to Earth in his own series. There is a literally galactic cruiser there meant to traverse galaxies. It's quite evident it's a universe, tell Ever to give more sufficient reasoning when you can.
 
I wasn't saying he was addressing everything, what I said is ask for him to address all of it. Even then, his reasoning was that "it just doesn't matter" practically because he believes the worlds to be strictly limited as just planets.
 
Inverted Tempest said:
Deep Space is still the world of Lilo and Stitch, it's not just a spaceship as that would be a horrendous understatement. Stitch literally stole a Red Police Cruiser, which is following the exact same course of events of how he got to Earth in his own series. There is a literally galactic cruiser there meant to traverse galaxies. It's quite evident it's a universe, tell Ever to give more sufficient reasoning when you can.
Click to expand...
From Ever,

"I don't see how this proves anything beyond these being ships that can travel between worlds via the Ocean Between"
 
"Inverted Tempest said:
I wasn't saying he was addressing everything, what I said is ask for him to address all of it. Even then, his reasoning was that "it just doesn't matter" practically because he believes the worlds to be strictly limited as just planets.
Click to expand...
Also from Ever,

""Even then, his reasoning was that "it just doesn't matter" practically because he believes the worlds to be strictly limited as just planets."
>he believes
>KH3 literally calls worlds "planets in a sea of stars" and Ansem's Reports in KH1 also calls worlds planets"
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
From Ever,

"I don't see how this proves anything beyond these being ships that can travel between worlds via the Ocean Between"
Click to expand...
That's not supported whatsoever within the material that they do this. He needs to show actual proof that they can do this because the idea that their world is universe-sized takes a more objective precedence in assuming they can do something that he's not cited.

EDIT: I'll be back later for this.
 
It's gonna take a bit for me to post his next piece of text as I have stuff to do. Sorry for the inconvenience.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
It's gonna take a bit for me to post his next piece of text as I have stuff to do. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Click to expand...
Take your time, I'm breaking on this regardless to get more scans for later.
 
Inverted Tempest said:
That's not supported whatsoever within the material that they do this. He needs to show actual proof that they can do this because the idea that their world is universe-sized takes a more objective precedence in assuming they can do something that he's not cited.
Click to expand...
I'm back.

"Ventus, Terra and Aqua are flying through the Ocean Between when they suddenly come across what is visibly just a spaceship, Stitch then hijacks one of the cruisers and flies back out into the Ocean Between with Ven and blasts off to Hawaii (the Hawaii bit is obviously a joke). This lines up with what KH1 and KH3 say with worlds being planets by assuming that Stitch simply traveled to another world, not that Ven/Terra/Aqua suddenly enter another universe which has its own cosmology simply because the reports say the Grand Councilwoman oversees the universe. I'd also like if he doesn't just dismiss all of my arguments with "Well, that's just his opinion""
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
I'm back.

"Ventus, Terra and Aqua are flying through the Ocean Between when they suddenly come across what is visibly just a spaceship, Stitch then hijacks one of the cruisers and flies back out into the Ocean Between with Ven and blasts off to Hawaii (the Hawaii bit is obviously a joke). This lines up with what KH1 and KH3 say with worlds being planets by assuming that Stitch simply traveled to another world, not that Ven/Terra/Aqua suddenly enter another universe which has its own cosmology simply because the reports say the Grand Councilwoman oversees the universe. I'd also like if he doesn't just dismiss all of my arguments with "Well, that's just his opinion""
Click to expand...
It could also be something like what happened here
 
@Bob

What does that have to do with Ever's point? How does that contradict it?
 
Well as long as you deleted all of it and not just one member's. Then I'm cool. Anyways I'm leaning towards 2-B kingdom hearts for the time being.
 
Would this upgrade effect the series, or just KHIII onwards?
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
"Ventus, Terra and Aqua are flying through the Ocean Between when they suddenly come across what is visibly just a spaceship, Stitch then hijacks one of the cruisers and flies back out into the Ocean Between with Ven and blasts off to Hawaii (the Hawaii bit is obviously a joke). This lines up with what KH1 and KH3 say with worlds being planets by assuming that Stitch simply traveled to another world, not that Ven/Terra/Aqua suddenly enter another universe which has its own cosmology simply because the reports say the Grand Councilwoman oversees the universe. I'd also like if he doesn't just dismiss all of my arguments with "Well, that's just his opinion""
Click to expand...
Simply put, Ven/Terra/Aqua didn´t actually enter the universe itself nor Stitch traveled to another world, but rather got out of his own "World" (aka, universe), leading into that they just accidentally found each other in the Ocean Between.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
"How...?
Like I'm seriously at a loss here."
Click to expand...
That literally would show the fact that Stitch's world is still a normal universe. If the walls were broken, that's how they interacted in the first place. In which Tempest and Bob would be objectively correct here in the fact that there is nothing showing that they traverse through other worlds normally under in the mindset that each of them is just a planet, rather they only were able to interact with BBS protags because that wall was broken down.
 
Ever's replies.

To Ploz's comment.

"The walls were only broken in KH1. The Lanes Between in BBS are different than what Sora, Donald and Goofy use in the numbered titles."


To Bob's comment.

"That... actually supports my stance on worlds being planets lol."
 
I would like to see 2-B Kingdom Hearts, but I have to agree with Dragonmasterxyz, there is way more evidence supporting the worlds being planets than universes.
 
Inverted Tempest said:
Notice how Ever has given like little to no scans while we've given numerous ones.
Click to expand...
From Ever.

"That adds literally nothing to the debate. Providing scans does not automatically make your argument better. Most of the scans are just irrelevant stuff like Ienzo mentioning the Realm Between in the OP, or stuff that only matters if we already assume worlds are universes like Ephemer saying there are countless worlds (Which... doesn't actually make sense when you consider that this is before the Keyblade War when all worlds were one)"
 
Providing scans makes your argument reliable and undeniably better. If you believe not, you're conceding to the premise of a baseless argument being equal to that with a base. Scans work as bases to claims and help people understand things, Everlasting is making baseless claims.
 
Ever, buddy, the worlds weren't one, they were connected. That's why you can't visit all of them, there were a countless amount of them connected. Ephemer's statement is still legit because of that. And after the Keyblade War, they all split which is why you couldn't cross into them conventionally at all.

Scans also do matter whether you realistically acknowledge it or not, because it gives context to the argument. Stating things won't help because for all we know, you could just be asserting your interpretation but refusing to give yours for fear it's incorrect.

So please, supply scans.
 
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