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Kingdom Hearts ReCoded: "At least High 4-C, possibly 3-A"

The_2nd_Existential_Seed

The_2nd_Existential_Seed

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I've been meaning to address this for a while now. Hopefully I can maybe understand this. Whelp, here I go:

Immediately after stating Sora's Heartless was going to destroy the datascape, Data Riku states both worlds are at stake, hinting the real world would be destroyed also by Sora's Heartless :

Not only is Data-Sora, who is quite literally the Data of Kingdom Hearts 1 Sora, capable of fighting this entity in it's evolved form (which is far superior to the form that was going to destroy the datascape and real world... and even Data-Sora states the Datascape is likely a Universe) ... We also see Post-KH2 Mickey being able to take it on as well.

There are numerous feats about the Datascape (if we consider it real size to the real world) one can use to further justify the upgrade , such as the Bugs routinely being stated as capable of affecting the real world upon being freed and let out by Data-Riku , which Data-Sora scales to. Or Riku being the embodiment of the Datascape [which if proven to be Universe Sized] & Post-KH2 Pete & Maleficent[who did get stronger but not by very much] routinely capable of affecting Data-Riku and actually stomping him, which should scale nicely to Data-Sora and thusly several others regardless.

Who Would This Scale To ? : Those at least relative to Post-KH1 / Post-KH2 Pete, Maleficent King Mickey (essentially all the "At least High 4-Cs'), as we see he's capable of taking on the Sora's Heartless after Data-Sora isn't able to, and it isn't assumed he grew that much stronger between KH1 and Post, then during the BBS era. Yes, the tier would be "At least High 4-C, possibly 3-A" but It'd start the scaling a lot nicer than just "KH3".


Any help would be appreciated.
 
Well, the "real world" here is clearly what in KH would just be a "world", meaning that for it to be 3-A, the respective "world" has to be 3-A sized to begin with, meaning that if the 3-A sized worlds thing was accepted, more characters would scale to the 2-B stuff.

But currently? Well, as much as I would like to, this doesn´t really qualify for 3-A, as 3-A sized worlds is currently denied due to lack of proof.
 
The Datascape is a complete replica of the Realm of Light, so when Data Riku states Heartless Sora will destroy both worlds, he's referring to the Datascape and Realm of Light as a whole. Xehanort refers to the Realm of Light as "the greater world" several times. That's all I'm going to say here.
 
Mmm... if that´s true then this may be indeed at least 3-A, but staff input is needed, as usual.
 
Thank you Spedster. Not only due to the cosmology of the reveal of the Datascape's nature in other titles, but Yeah the Datascape is meant to be a complete replica of the universe in it's entirety.. as stated by Maleficent in the Secret Ending, not just being a separate world akin to something like Destiny Islands. This is shown how Data-Sora literally stated they transversed the entire Universe, but that the Datascape contains quite literally everything we've seen in the KH Universe so far beside the Sleeping Worlds.
 
Bump. After looking this over, assuming the Datascape seen in Re:Coded as implied is comparable to the RoL in AP... This is actually really beneficial scaling wise because:

  • Data-Riku quite literally is the Datascape, and it was directly stated if he died the Datascape goes with him, meaning he's 3-A via existing.
  • The Bugs in General Scale > Regular Data-Riku (Yep, the ones from Destiny Islands - Hollow Bastion), considering the fact that he outright said he couldn't defeat them and he needed assistance from Data-Sora (as in literally just giving him guidance from the sidelines and having him doing all the fighting) . He stated several times if he could have done it himself he would have done so throughout the whole game , implying he didn't have the ability to do it.
  • This is backed up by Pete (Yes... That Pete ) effortlessly stomping Data-Riku and empowering him many times fold, and still having the ability to stomp him anyways, and having absolute control over the Bugs as if they were mere Heartless to him, implying he's vastly superior to Data-Riku.... Which is backed up by how the fight went off-screen... It wasn't even a contest..
  • THEN even Post-KH2 Donald and Goofy can take on and defeat the Bugs.
  • Maleficent stomped Post-Agrabah Data Sora, who at this point scales far above Bugs whose above Data-Riku. Remember, Pete & Maleficent is far weaker than KH1 Ansem & Dark Riku canonically , and fodder to KH2 Sora.
So the scaling would actually be in-between EoS KH1 Sora and KH2 Sora relatively, considering King Mickey outright stopped Sora's Heartless, and Pete & Maleficent showed superiority towards the Datascape Bugs and Sora/Riku alike, and despite them obviously being stronger, it's only minimally at best considering how they are treated later as a joke consistently even when Real Sora's barely at Full Power.
 
And then there's the Lingering Will fight right at the end of KHII, which would lead this into many more scaling.
 
Yeah. Also the "only baseline or barely baeline 3-A" would definitely be nope'd if this was accepted... Because the KH2 Folks would essentially vastly scale over those who can oneshot far above 3-As who are 3-A via existing.
 
Wait, if the 3-A feat Xehanort scales also includes the Datascape, then those that are currently 3-A would be baseline 2-C
 
I'm pretty sure that it would be 2-C if Sora's Heartless had a direct statement of affecting both at once, but the feat would still be at least 3-A. Also, if this gets accepted, how would the scaling chain from post KH1 Sora scaling go?
 
I'll send the universe statement scan when I can if Seed doesn't send it. This feat wouldn't even be an outlier because the current feat that puts them at High 4-C was performed by Zeus, who's garbage fodder for the entire verse, and the Kingdom Hearts shown in KH1, which was acknowledged as being far inferior to any other artificial KH by Mickey. The organization's would be comparable to the KH shown in BBS, which has a statement of being made up of all worlds.
 
Data-Riku quite literally is the Datascape, and it was directly stated if he died the Datascape goes with him, meaning he's 3-A via existing.

A paper clip is not "multi-paper level" just for holding together a stack of papers. Same applies here.

Until we can confirm the KH cosmology is actually 2-C, which I do consider a strong possibility, this here doesn't sit well with me.
 
TheSpeedster96 said:
I'll send the universe statement scan when I can if Seed doesn't send it.
Click to expand...
I think it should be mentioned at this point so this discussion can go further.
 
Hades from Saint Seiya has part of his 2-C reason being a similar case, so I'm not sure why this is a problem if the site's standards view another case of this as being fine. Also, the analogy isn't remotely the same case. Data Riku dying would actually make the Datascape cease to exist versus a paper clip just letting lose of the papers. One sustains the entire existence of something while the other doesn't rather obviously. Even then, we already have the statements about Sora's Heartless being able to destroy the Datasapce as mentioned above. All this would really do is just be supporting evidence of sorts if we get the scan provided the Datascape is universe-sized.
 
Bobsican said:
TheSpeedster96 said:
I'll send the universe statement scan when I can if Seed doesn't send it.
Click to expand...
I think it should be mentioned at this point so this discussion can go further.
Click to expand...
Even if I agree with Imverted Tempest (I do), this proof is needed as we really can't go beyond this without that.
 
Hades created those dimensions on top of them being maintained by his will. It isn't just a "he maintains them" feat.
 
3-A Tron confirmed the

Anyways, for real, Chip and Dale were the ones that made the Datascape IIRC (Jiminy's Journal, aka, Data-Riku, is the one that actually has the "content" itself)
 
And? This doesn't really demean my point. We already have a 3-A feat from Sora's Heartless to have them to scale to as well. Data-Riku would just be a supporting evidence for the tiering.

https://i.imgur.com/ajgYwRM.jpg

I compiled a bunch of scenes in this first link which show how the Datascape is pretty much referred to as being a direct replica of the Real World, being the Realm of Light in this case. When Mickey talks about being from a different world, he's talking about the Realm of Light in its entirety. Pete directly states he came from the Real World, to take over "this world" by giving them in a direct comparison in one another as its the Datascape. Maleficent also talks about how both worlds will be hers through the spread of darkness and Donald mentions the Datascape as synonymous with it in this case.

https://i.imgur.com/7w28Cu6.png

The second link basically shows how the Datascape is referred to have numerous worlds in it. Its a general collection of all the ones Sora has seen as well, you can see that with one of the pictures literally mentioning the bugs in the Datascape. Oh and one of them talks about how the universe is present in the datascape and mentions how all the worlds are what make it up.

I hope this is enough to prove a universe-sized Datascape.
 
Also, from what's been brought up, I think we should honestly upgrade everyone Pre-Kingdom Hearts III to 3-A.

These feats scale to King Mickey, Donald, Goofy, Maleficent, and Pete as the real versions of them end up in the Datascape and take on these 3-A enemies. This allows for Keyblade Wielders, Organization Members, Dream Eaters, etc. to all scale from them as well. The only feats really having them at High 4-C is a feat that was done incredibly casually by Zeus, who all of the characters scale above immensely. The other comes from a lowball on the worlds restored by Kingdom Hearts after Ansem's Heartless plunged them into darkness through what was just shown in the cutscene. Countless worlds exist as stated in Union Cross, so the amount isn't just limited to 200 possibly. Even then, nothing suggests this really took any effort as well. If anything, they should get "At least High 4-C, possibly/likely 3-A".

With there being a 2-C cosmology with this as well, that would upgrade all of the Kingdom Hearts III characters up into baseline 2-C from Xehanort resetting those universes. I think the Realm of Darkness should be treated as a separate universe also from the Realm of Light dually, but I will cover that when I get back from my meeting. That would put them at 3 universes in the cosmology if that also got accepted though.
 
Some things I almost forgot to mention

  • The Bugs themselves period were stated to be capable of affecting the real world by Data-RIku during the Sora talk within Data-Riku's Mind , and the only reason why they didn't was because Data-RIku stepped. This is literally the same bugs Maleficent and Pete view as literal fodder... So yeah the Bugs definitely aren't just something inside a 10-C world... They are serious threats. So... 3-A consistency ?
  • Also I'll remind people that Sora's Heartless was stated as capable of destroying both worlds [Datascape and the Outside / Real World] while in a weakened form (because at the time no one knew it could evolve further)... He takes on at least 4 evolutions during the fight, yet King Mickey is able to hardcounter and fend off the last evolution of the Monstrosity, meaning the feat is definitely above baseline.
  • Both Pete & Maleficent survived said Heartless' attack seemingly without getting knocked out.
There are other things I could mention from the game but that's good enough for now... I think.
 
I'm just going to say that the fact the bugs and Sora's Heartless needed to break the walls between the Datascape and Realm of Light would debunk a 2-C rating, but like I said, this would still make it above baseline 3-A.
 
Also, after seeing the new change to the tiering system, this seems to qualify as baseline 2-C
 
I'm looking at the Tiering System right now and it doesn't really seem to be any different than before. Speedster's point should probably keep the feat as just 3-A, I think that's best because 2-C most probably will only belong to KHIII characters if this goes through.
 
It's best to keep the feat as solely 3-A for now until more info arises. How far into it ... It depends:

  • If all the Bugs are considered 3-A if being superior to the Datascape , then the KH1 God-Tiers [Dark Riku , Ansem, Sora, technically Kairi due to being one of the Seven and one feat I think everybody overlooked... Has to do with restoring Sora's heart literally right before he takes on Ansem] would scale massively above baseline, much less anyone afterward.
  • If only Sora's Heartless, the above would still scale above baseline to a high degree, just not as high as it would before, and the scaling would start at or around King Mickey.
 
It should also be worth note Sora took on Ansem with technically only half of his power. When he was reverted to a Heartless, his nobody, Roxas, had also been birthed and contained the other half which was stated by I think it was Ansem the Wise. Speedster probably has the scan, but it would just put them doubly above baseline once you get into Post-KHII. It'd make a more quantifiable chain to scale for.
 
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