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King Hassan's Tier II

Antvasima said:
What are the summarised arguments and conclusions here? Please write them in an easy to understand manner.
Let's stick to the main topic here please.
 
ShinyMagicalGirl said:
Matt, the 2-A tier doesn't matter here.
What matters is that if King Hassan scales to wherever tier Tiamat ends up in (5-A, 4-B, Low 2-C, doesn't matter. Don't bring the tiering debate here since this isn't about that.)
My point is that Hassan is hax not AP so get the AP rating out of there.
 
As stated multiple times on this thread

Hassan's hax isn't the durability negating kind, he still needs to physically cut you in order to deathhax you

So even if he used hax on her (he didn't, but for the sake of argument let's assume he did), he still had to be strong enough to physically cut her wing off to hax her anyway

So yes, he should scale
 
That's not what death hax does by definition

Death hax does not make durabilty not matter against your attacks, it makes things drop dead, which Tiamat pretty clearly didn't.
 
Maybe we should stick to the main topic and save any derailments for separate threads?
 
Antvasima said:
Maybe we should stick to the main topic and save any derailments for separate threads?
What they are discussing currently is on topic.

It's just there's a disagreement about how it should go for KH tiering
 
Paul Frank said:
As stated multiple times on this thread
Hassan's hax isn't the durability negating kind, he still needs to physically cut you in order to deathhax you

So even if he used hax on her (he didn't, but for the sake of argument let's assume he did), he still had to be strong enough to physically cut her wing off to hax her anyway

So yes, he should scale


For obvoius reasons I'm voting yes. One thing though.


Enkidu's chains--specifically a counter to divine entities like TIamat--could only hold her down for 1 HOUR. In earlier attacks, IIRC it couldn't pierce her or do any significant damage.

And this was Kingu using his living body.

That King Hassan could cut off both her wings with one strike is a statement to his AP. It just wasn't the main point of the attack.
 
I still completely disagree, but more people seem to side for 2-A so I think this should be added?

And Hi3, what you think and what happens are entirely different things. Death hax can and has been used to ignore durability in Fate, is how Eyes of Death Perception work.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
If King Hassan had the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception, then perhaps he could ignore durability with his cuts, but he has never shown to have them, so it's a leap to assume his works the same way


I think it would be prudent to assume he has it in some form.


I mean, this guy is Death itself given form. Surely he has SOME means of perceiving it, just not as lines or dots.
 
Mystic Eyes of Death Perception merely allow the person to perceive death. Hence the name. I find it weird to assume someone like King Hassan can't perceive death - Azrael is not even his main death hax, is just a side thing.

But agai obviously the majority is up for bumping his AP to 2-A so it should be fine to add.
 
Hl3 or bust said:
This is 100% the main topic of this thread
Okay. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
I think I would prefer at least High 7-A (or whatever we have QSH at), possibly 2-A
We can discuss the specifics after deciding whether or not to go forward with entertaining 2-A
 
I'm not even sure if I'm allowed to vote, but if I am, then I vote "Yes". King Hassan should scale to Tiamat, whatever tier that might be.


At some point, I'd like to talk about his Grand Servant rank and how he actually lost it, too. Because there seems to be a misunderstanding about that bit as well.
 
9-1. I think we can move forward with the specifics of what his new AP should be (likely 2-A, High 7-A, possibly 2-A, etc)
 
Just make it plainly the same tier as Tiamat. A fellow Grand Servant, Solomon, is just flatout Goetia tier anyways. So First Hassan should be the same.
 
ShinyMagicalGirl said:
Just make it plainly the same tier as Tiamat. A fellow Grand Servant, Solomon, is just flatout Goetia tier anyways. So First Hassan should be the same.
That's a actually a good point. I didnt think about that. However, I do still think we should have some kind of stat range for him
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
ShinyMagicalGirl said:
Just make it plainly the same tier as Tiamat. A fellow Grand Servant, Solomon, is just flatout Goetia tier anyways. So First Hassan should be the same.
That's a actually a good point. I didnt think about that. However, I do still think we should have some kind of stat range for him
What would you suggest? High 7-A, likely/possibly 2-A as stated earlier? Or something else?
 
I don't really see the need for a stat range tbh, a 6-C wouldn't have been able to cut her wing off no matter what, so it wouldn't make sense for him to be that

So I'm against a tier range, he should just be plain 2-A for the Grand key
 
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