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King Hassan's Tier II

Hope this goes through. It seems we have plenty of people for it. Not sure if we'd have to make another thread about his abilities, since he seems to be missing a few things that he's shown to be capable of. Non-Physical Interaction (seeing as he can 'kill' abstract things that lack physical form) and Immortality Negation (of types Types 1, 2, 5 and 8, since that's what Tiamat had) And I'm not sure, but maybe Shapeshifting or Illusion Manipulation, because I'm not sure how he turned himself into Ziusu-dra.. Unless that somehow falls under his Presence Concealment.


Then there's the matter of his Grand Saint Graph being lost due to him imposing death on Tiamat. That might have been interpreted wrong. He gave up his Grand Title to join Chaldea, and used the power that was left before he regressed to a normal servant to impose the concept of loldeath
 
I keep my mind the exact same. I see no reason why Gramps couldn't apply the dura negating particulars of Death Hax when is a simple by product of perceiving death.

But I am still extremely neutral about this, so go by whatever is decided.
 
KH doesn't really negate durability, he just ignores it because he doesn't need to physically harm you significantly to kill you. I don't think it's something you can just apply to your physical strikes, But either way. Who do we see about getting this implimented to his page?
 
^^^ Exactly. Death hax ignores durability, but it can't be applied to his strikes because unlike Shiki, his death hax isn't reliant on the strike itself. Assuming that he perceives death in just the right way as to allow him to bypass durability with his physical strikes is exactly that, an assumption.

Gramps couldn't one-shot Bel-Lahmu after he gave up his Grand Saint Graph despite retaining his death hax that supposedly lets him bypass durability. And after he'd forced the concept of death on Tiamat, if his dura-neg is reliant on perceiving the concept of death and striking it, why didn't he just one-shot Tiamat right after? Even if she had nigh-immunity to death-hax, his supposed durability negation would've allowed him to just lop off her head, wouldn't it? Why didn't he do that? Obviously because he couldn't.
 
Dangai Ichigo said:
Alright seems likely...Now, is anyone gonna make a thread on Gorgon ?
Click to expand...
There's also curroption for Angra and Tiamat.

Corruption resistance for Shirou, Rin, Kiritsugu and Kirei

Absorbtion resistance for servant and Magi by resisting bloodfort andromeda.
 
Corruption resistance doesn't really apply to non-Servants, since Angra's corruption only affects spiritual beings like Servants.
 
"The scourge is so strong that it stains all it touches, breaking down their body, mind, and soul, driving them insane with fear and pain. It turns the emotions they feel in death into magical energy to propagate itself. It near inevitably kills anyone it touches, ultimately claiming Kiritsugu Emiya's life years after he was exposed to it. It can, however, be resisted by those with exceptionally powerful wills, such as Shirou Emiya, and Gilgamesh, whose ego is too strong to be tainted by such a weak affliction."

It feels this is also madness manip, fear and transmutation. Mind and soul manip too.

Then corruption resistance to Gil.
 
Shirou already resists biological, mind and soul manip from that feat, though fear and pain should be added, yeah.
 
It is an assumption, but not one that I think is incredible to make. He already shows way more mastery over the handling of the concept of Death in many ways and forms, so I just don't agree at all to think he can't perceive it in some shape or form.

That would be entirely forgetting how cutting lines of death works. You still gotta cut them, and some things even if they are killable have extremely complex lines of death (are we gonna forget the ashes of the monk in Araya's arm which Shiki couldn't perceive at first?). Under that idea, you could just as well ask why didn't he just use his normal Death Hax on Bel-Lahmu that we know he already has alongside his resistance negging.
 
Gramps' Death abilities come from his oneness with the concept of death itself. He doesn't see flaws in things like the MEoDP. He makes things die by bringing their fated time of death, however far that might be, to the here and now. And in Tiamat's case he will GIVE YOU a time of death. Nothing about his death abilities, beyond making contact, applies to his physical strikes.
 
I'd be inclined to agree with Fish.

Though the broadsword that he bears is perfectly commonplace, it has been stained with the faith of its wielder in the course of his lifetime. Being a sword borne by a man who walks the boundaries of the Valley of the Shadow of Death (Õ╣¢Þ░À, Youkoku?, lit. "Shadowed Valley"), its edge can potentially impose the termination of life with the slightest cut. Though the probability is low, the imposition of death can affect an opponent of any strength or stature.[1]

The language of this description seems to imply that it's more like the sword inflicts death like a status ailment, not really anything to do with Hassan's physical power
 
Yup agree with both of the above there's no reason to think that King king wouldn't scale at all to tiamat after that what grand servants are for.
 
Like I've said a few times already, I don't mind what tier he is. I simply decided to say why I would disagree if I was more adamant about this.

And no, that's entirely wrong. Seeing "flaws" is just a consequence of the eyes being able to perceive death. Its not a special quality, or ability, or something only they can do, or whatever the heck. If you can perceive the concept of death, you can do that, because it is a merely natural manifestation of the concept of death in all things. Mystic Eyes of DEATH PERCEPTION, how more clear can you make it? And I find it dumb to think someone who is so "one with death" and can do things beyond the MEoPD can't even perceive death. It just makes no sense to me.
 
Would it be good if we scale him to full excalibur galatine blast (he needs to be higher than 7-A at least) and put a possibly 3-A ?
 
Would it be good if we scale him to full excalibur galatine blast (he needs to be higher than 7-A at least) and put a possibly 3-A ?

That's a good compromise, but I have an itching feeling it'll get shot down because everyone cares more about being right than actually properly scaling
 
Like I said, I will just go with the majority since I don't have a strong opinion and just wanted to explain why I don't entirely agree with the idea.

Seems like everyone else is agreeing with 2-A so scaling him fully should be alright, unless they change mind and decide Likely 2-A is a better option.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Like I said, I will just go with the majority since I don't have a strong opinion and just wanted to explain why I don't entirely agree with the idea.

Seems like everyone else is agreeing with 2-A so scaling him fully should be alright, unless they change mind and decide Likely 2-A is a better option.
Click to expand...
Agreed, that looks like 3 votes for "Likely 2-A"
 
Hey, count me in for this. Gramps deserves more love.

Speaking of Gorgon, are we talking Tiamat-Gorgon or regular Gorgon?
 
Zenjutsu said:
Hey, count me in for this. Gramps deserves more love.

Speaking of Gorgon, are we talking Tiamat-Gorgon or regular Gorgon?
Click to expand...
Well mostly the transformed Gorgon, the bigger one and maybe the normal Gorgon with a suicide attack ?
 
This thread slipped me completely. Life kinda came up and punched me in the gut a few times.. Still kinda is, actually. If someone could get this looked at by the admins and the like and approved/denied, that would be great! Sorry again.
 
What are the summarised arguments and conclusions here? Please write them in an easy to understand manner.
 
Grand Servant Hassan scales to Tiamat

That is irrefutable

Your opinion on Tiamat's tier is irrelevant, because this isn't a tier CRT for Tiamat
 
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