Killer Instinct Ultra Revision: The Original Games

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

So you're telling me that Jago's soul can be touched by material beings and can interact with them, rather than everyone having the ability to attack a spiritual being.

I really don't trust gameplay abilities, because it might seem harmless to add them to a profile, but when you end up discussing them in a thread, then that's where it goes wrong. I don't mind not indexing this seeing how it's a secret move, and that we have to go through speculation just to get to an answer which might not even be correct or wrong, just straight up vague.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

So now we gonna remove stuff cuz someome thinks its something else without any concrete evidence....most logical thing is literally saying everyone can touch him cuz of npi, else you might as well do the same on reboot cast on that creepy ghost lady

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I'm fine with either possibly NPI & incorporeality or simply not indexing it at all, it's just that souls being physical make no sense to me. By default souls and spirits should already be incorporeal beings.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Its something unique to Jago and worthy of mention, literally no reason as to why not be put on the profiles

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Well I never opposed not giving Jago such ability, I just said that it's fine if he doesn't get it. It's also fine by me if he gets to have it in his profile. But I don't like debating gameplay based abilities with IRL elements and whatnot, so it's up to you guys if he gets to have it or not.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

So you're telling me that Jago's soul can be touched by material beings and can interact with them, rather than everyone having the ability to attack a spiritual being.

I really don't trust gameplay abilities, because it might seem harmless to add them to a profile, but when you end up discussing them in a thread, then that's where it goes wrong. I don't mind not indexing this seeing how it's a secret move, and that we have to go through speculation just to get to an answer which might not even be correct or wrong, just straight up vague.

I'm not saying that all souls are physical or even the universe's standard. I'm saying I find it more likely that Jago's specific technique makes his soul physical.

So now we gonna remove stuff cuz someome thinks its something else without any concrete evidence....most logical thing is literally saying everyone can touch him cuz of npi, else you might as well do the same on reboot cast on that creepy ghost lady

There is no concrete evidence to it being NPI either, if that's the point here. The evidence I have for Jago's technique making his soul physical is that his soul touches the ground and is interacted by everyone else.

 

[SamanPatou]

So have you reached any agreements here?

We only need to solve this Ghost Jago affair and then we are done.

Personally I'm fine with both proposals, but I want to address this in the P&A, it might be a secret technique but it still exists, it's not a cheat then it should be legit.

Maybe the biggest argument against all having NPI is that the characters don't share particular similarities, they are a bunch of different people and creatures without a common origin or power source.

So now we gonna remove stuff cuz someome thinks its something else without any concrete evidence....most logical thing is literally saying everyone can touch him cuz of npi, else you might as well do the same on reboot cast on that creepy ghost lady

Actually, the lore and more details seem to imply that Hisako is physical while roaming in the living world, but that's for the next thread.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

There is no concrete evidence to it being NPI either, if that's the point here. The evidence I have for Jago's technique making his soul physical is that his soul touches the ground and is interacted by everyone else.

Thats not an argument, i can claim the same for any character which has no physical body or which can go intangible for that matter not going below but they stand on the ground

Also him being interacted by others isnt evidence against that, its evidence of the others having npi, this is the logic of a low tier character beating a high tier and claim the latter isnt a certain tier cuz of this

Why would you go physical as a ghost when fighting others, its counter productive and the idea of him making his ghost self physical is literally head canon, most logical thing is its non corporeal and others are able to touch him

 

[SamanPatou]

I think using "possibly NPI" and "possibly incorporeality" as a compromise can work, we don't know for sure what the truth is and both options have their own validity.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I think using "possibly NPI" and "possibly incorporeality" as a compromise can work, we don't know for sure what the truth is and both options have their own validity.

Eh, fine by me. I still think it isn't NPI nor incorporeality, but there isn't any strong evidence to any conclusion either, so that's fine.

Thats not an argument, i can claim the same for any character which has no physical body or which can go intangible for that matter not going below but they stand on the ground

I agree that it isn't strong evidence, but it is evidence nonetheless. In the lack of other evidence...

Also him being interacted by others isnt evidence against that, its evidence of the others having npi, this is the logic of a low tier character beating a high tier and claim the latter isnt a certain tier cuz of this

Not really. A supposed ghost interacting normally with the world isn't proof of everyone having NPI. It implies that the ghost, for some reason, can interact normally with everyone. The reasons why are unknown, but it doesn't really imply incorporeality, at least not in that state with which they interact with the world.

The logic isn't the same. I mean, what I'm talking about is being skeptical about adding a power when there is almost no evidence to it. That one is about a clear example of fictional inconsistency.

Why would you go physical as a ghost when fighting others, its counter productive and the idea of him making his ghost self physical is literally head canon, most logical thing is its non corporeal and others are able to touch him

There's plenty going on here. First off, it isn't good to assume that a character has full control over their kind of "power" to the point that they could do the most efficient course of action with it (For example, using the argument that character X does not have selective intangibility, because if he had, he could just smash someone's heart into their chests, but maybe, by the in-universe logic or because of their own limitations, they just can't do it), nor that they would think of that. (For example, if Silver Surfer has shown to be able to go intangible to attacks from Thor at times, why he doesn't do it every time he is attacked)

Secondly, maybe the technique just works that way. If the technique makes his soul assume a physical, empowered form in relation to his normal body, there just isn't a way to make it be incorporeal.

I find it way more likely that it is a specific technique that makes the soul take a physical form, as I've seen happen plenty of times in fiction, than giving NPI when there is no reason to otherwise. But in any case, it's been agreed to use the "possibly', so that's fine by me.

 

[Antvasima]

I think using "possibly NPI" and "possibly incorporeality" as a compromise can work, we don't know for sure what the truth is and both options have their own validity.

That seems like a good solution.

 

[SamanPatou]

Since this has been solved too, can I consider this CRT concluded or should I wait more?

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Looks good to me

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Same, this can be applied now

 

[Antvasima]

Since this has been solved too, can I consider this CRT concluded or should I wait more?

I think that you can apply what has been accepted here now.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

It has been applied?

 

[SamanPatou]

No, this thread was to make profiles for the classic characters and have their stats and powers approved.

It will take me some time to make them, though.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Shouldnt we lock this then, as there isnt much to talk now

 

[SamanPatou]

I think it should stay open, I know for experience I might stumble in some problem, double or thing I forgot.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

If you wish, do as you please

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I can try make some KI profiles this weekend.

 

[SamanPatou]

Thank you for the offer, but I'd prefer making them myself, partly because I already have in mind the structure and wording of them, as well as the gifs and descriptions of the moves and their variants, and partly because I enjoy making these profile and I'd like to make all of them.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Ok

 

[SamanPatou]

As I expected, I forgot a couple of things, very minor though, so it shouldn't be a problem, but I want to point them out anyway. (I'm also adding them to the op)


Black Orchid

• Fire Manipulation: In KI2, Orchid's Lasaken has been replaced by a move called Tonfa Fire. Its name matches its appearance, as it looks like a double fireball and leaves fiery trails on the opponent.

Fulgore

• Limited Regeneration High-Low: In KI1 (only in that) when performing Laser Storm, Fulgore shoots his very claws, which then regrow immediately after. These claws are large enough to fit High-Low (which includes fingers), but it should be limited as these claws appear to be made of some sort of physical energy and their regeneration most likely is a unique trait limited to them.
• Electricity Manipulation: In KI2 Fulgore has a move called Chest Spark, which also appears to be electricity.

 

[Armorchompy]

should be good

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Good

 

[Antvasima]

That is probably fine.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Not too sure of fulgore regen imo

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Limited Regeneration High-Low: In KI1 (only in that) when performing Laser Storm, Fulgore shoots his very claws, which then regrow immediately after. These claws are large enough to fit High-Low (which includes fingers), but it should be limited as these claws appear to be made of some sort of physical energy and their regeneration most likely is a unique trait limited to them.

I personally don't agree with this ability, because having this would assume that he can repair lesser damaage to his body, which isn't the case with Fulgore who has no feats or statements of self-repairing tech.

I do wish there was a power unique to artificial technology that covers something like this though.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I personally don't agree with this ability, because having this would assume that he can repair lesser damaage to his body, which isn't the case with Fulgore who has no feats or statements of self-repairing tech.

I do wish there was a power unique to artificial technology that covers something like this though.

It's the claws only though. It's even noted as only being the claws

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Still, regen doesn't sound correct to me. Wouldn't Fulgore's so-called regen be simply a way of reloading? Regeneration is often associated with recovering from damage and I don't see anything like that in this feat.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

The remaining two are fine btw

 

[SamanPatou]

Maybe I can add it as Body Control? (it already has it for one of the finishers, this would be an additional element).

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Im all for this one

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Maybe I can add it as Body Control? (it already has it for one of the finishers, this would be an additional element).

Yes

 

[Armorchompy]

body control is better yeah

 

[Antvasima]

So have you reached an agreement then?

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Yes, he is just making the profiles now and when he is done the thread will be closed, unless there is something else he wanna add here

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[SamanPatou]

Exactly, everyone can check my work in progress here, I will publish the profiles all together once they are ready.