Killer Instinct Ultra Revision: The Original Games

[SamanPatou]

Either way it leads us to guessing answers from stuff that isn't supposedly canon. Possibly sounds fine to me, but I really don't like Broadway Force as a power tbh, so I'll just leave it alone (I remember someone in a LoL thread claiming that a character's broadway hax could bypass resistances to control related abilities because it didn't rely on controlling the body or mind)

It seems like Gargos and Eyedol were banished from the timeline and into Limbo, so they didn't really exist in any point in time once they were banished. Based on the context, Eyedol is not around because he was already sent back into Limbo (taking his soul as well) not because he only exists as a singularity in time. Also, it might've taken place long after the sealing, even if it says that they were sent 2000 years back. The heroes who banished them were not around as well, likely indicating they are either dead or the writers forgor, but I'm leaning on the former though.

We might both make it possibly and follow Eliminator's suggestion?

Fair enough, we don't have enough evidences at the end of the day.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Yes

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

9-A via melt down is fine yeah.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Reboot and original games are separate canons

Also blocking them in gameplay purely is something in any fighting game you can do which isnt the best thing, its just wanking character like that

Edit: wrote timelines instead of canons lol

I never said we have to scale OG timeline to current one. lol

The 2013 meteor feat needs to be calculated.

 

[SamanPatou]

The reboot will be handled in the next thread, I stated it in the op and other people also mentioned it.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

The reboot will be handled in the next thread, I stated it in the op and other people also mentioned it.

Ah ops sorry buddy

 

[SamanPatou]

Meant in the original games, not reboot by TJ, where you can with any character uppercut the opponent in the air

I went for a simpler method, i.e. just using Jason's calc with higher height, and even assuming they can punch Fulgore up to twenty meters, which seems a bit high even from the video, the result is (If I didn't botch anything) 0,00047 tons, while the wall calc is 0.00247820484 tons.
Obviously increasing the height increases the result, but I don't think that what we see in the game is a height higher than 20 meters or such, or at least high enough to give a result higher than the wall calc (happy to be confuted, though).

 

[BlackDarkness679]

So its not worth it at the end of the day?

 

[SamanPatou]

I don't think so, I believe you would have push the height to well beyond 50 meters to surpass the wall feat and that's definitely too high compared to what we see on screen.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

F

 

[SamanPatou]

Well then, all point of contention have been solved and everyone who commented agrees with the CRT, including a staff member, DarkDragonMedeus.

I'd say I can wait another couple of days, bumping the thread once in awhile, and then if no other points get questioned, I can start applying the revision (which is basically me making profiles).

@Antvasima what do you think about what I proposed here above? (in this same message)

Here's a recap of the main points that have been discussed and solved:

• Gag powers are fine but with the clause of specifying in a note that they are meant to be gags and can be restricted in Vs Matches
• Punching people high in the air doesn't give results better than the wall busting feat
• Tusk's meteor doesn't scale
• The reboot will be handled in the next thread (which was already a thing, there has been a misunderstanding)
• Gargos and Eyedol don't qualify for Acausality
• Lifting Strength has been set to Class 1

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Gag powers are fine but with the clause of specifying in a note that they are meant to be gags and can be restricted in Vs Matches

To be honest that's something I'd add in most pieces of fiction as well but-

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Agree as well

 

[Armorchompy]

seems good

 

[Cyberblader90]

can fulgore get sub rel attack speed via satellite:

 

[SamanPatou]

He/It might have it as possibly imo, but it shouldn't scale to the overall combat speed of anyone due to it being gameplay speed, which isn't a good way to measure this type of feats (a similar feat in Skullgirls was also rejected for this reason).

Also the calc should be put in a blog and evaluated.

 

[Hellbeast]

Yeah it should just be Attack Speed

 

[EliminatorVenom]

can fulgore get sub rel attack speed via satellite:

Yeah, this is fine, but only in attack speed of that single particular instance.

 

[SamanPatou]

"Superhuman Travel Speed, Supersonic combat speed and reactions, possibly sub-relativistic with name of the attack

This should work

 

[Antvasima]

@Antvasima what do you think about what I proposed here above? (in this same message)

Here's a recap of the main points that have been discussed and solved:

• Gag powers are fine but with the clause of specifying in a note that they are meant to be gags and can be restricted in Vs Matches
• Punching people high in the air doesn't give results better than the wall busting feat
• Tusk's meteor doesn't scale
• The reboot will be handled in the next thread (which was already a thing, there has been a misunderstanding)
• Gargos and Eyedol don't qualify for Acausality
• Lifting Strength has been set to Class 1

It seems fine to me.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

He/It might have it as possibly imo, but it shouldn't scale to the overall combat speed of anyone due to it being gameplay speed, which isn't a good way to measure this type of feats (a similar feat in Skullgirls was also rejected for this reason).

Also the calc should be put in a blog and evaluated.

The Skullgirls thing was rejected cuz basically you as the player just jump or hold back to block an attack basically, fulgore thing happens in his fatality basically where the character isnt controlled by you anymore, so its a coded animation not dependant on player

 

[SamanPatou]

You can perform finishers when characters are still alive but their life is about to end, they can be dodged and avoided even here.

But even then, I'd find iffy to compare the speed of the laser of the speed with that of a character that staggers when his lifebar ends.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

While its true that its not restricted just to when life bar is 0, in the case where they aree they can still perceive it moments before going doen, but arent in shape to avoid it at that point

 

[SamanPatou]

I'm still wary about it, even with the perception argument, it's pretty much Fulgore pressing a button and the laser comes down, it just moves in tandem with the characters due to the characters having animations, and accepting that also means they scale even higher than it because you can block and dodge it if you still have life.

If it was a cutscene, or was supported by something else (feats, statements or such), it could be considered, but without any of that and only gameplay I feel it shouldn't be considered for anything other than the speed of the laser itself.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Well you can ask for more opinions on it now, could give it a possibly only if anything, just a suggestion

Also now i got another thing to say that i look better, jago ghost mode could be tangible if he wants prolly, cuz overall a ghost should be by default non corporeal and even then they can be tangible if needed, plus jago wont go tangible to get hit by others if he enters that, so the cast might be able to interact with non corporeal stuff

 

[SamanPatou]

More opinions will surely be necessary, but relying only on gameplay creates a lot inconsistencies and it in the first place shouldn't be used to determine speed in this way.
Imo, it shouldn't be possibly either, as it's pushing things too far.


I also forgot about Jago's ghost mode, but we can't assume a ghost can become tangible at will if nothing suggests it.
Judging only by the move itself, Jago is either incorporeal but everyone can interact with him (and vice versa) or he is somehow tangible.
Here a possibly NPI interaction might be warranted, let's see what others think.

 

[SamanPatou]

Bump


Does anyone have further opinions on Fulgore's laser and the Ghost Jago affair?

 

[DaReaperMan]

How many things does Fulgore's laser have checked off?

And fine with a possibly NPI on Ghost Jago, as long as it makes editing more of a hell.

 

[SamanPatou]

How many things does Fulgore's laser have checked off?

And fine with a possibly NPI on Ghost Jago, as long as it makes editing more of a hell.

You mean the requirements to be light speed? It's not about it being an actual laser, more like the speed with which it comes down from a satellite supposed to be in space at an average height for that kind of artificla satellites, accounting that the calc has yet to be evaluated.

But the issue was scaling it to the overall speed of the characters because in gameplay they can block and dodge it, and even when they are stunned they stagger at a comparable speed.
Imho, that's pushing game mechanics too far, as it's all based on gameplay, and at most it would only qualify for the speed of that specific attack, which wouldn't scale to anything else, neither Fulgore's stats or others'.


It's not really that much of a problem adding it but fair enough.
Do we have something to address ghosts interacting with physical beings? Like, in a vs match with a character without NPI, would we just assume Ghost Jago can hit them but they can't hit him?

 

[DaReaperMan]

I think we assume that yes he can hit unless proven otherwise in VS threads considering how often I see stomps called because the opponent doesn't have npi to deal with Intangibility and such.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

No one scaling to laser besides Fulgore (only in terms of attack speed with a specific weapon) is fine.

This reminds me of irl ghosts being able to influence physical objects in the form of hauntings. Maybe Jago qualifies for that? That would not make sense in gameplay though, not to mention that there's not much lore behind his ghost form.

 

[SamanPatou]

Yeah, the ghost form is also a secret technique by default, either he is intangible and can hit everyone (and everyone in KI can hit him as well with NPI) or he is somewhat tangible. Game mechanics are most likely involved, but this is also a gameplay-only thing, so idk.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I watched the video myself, and I think incorporeality is good to go. His physical body is left behind and his spirit form is represented by a transparent sprite of himself so that blatantly looks like a spirit form move to me. As for how Jago can touch others and vice versa, is there another feat of NPI in the original KI games that we can at least scale this to? Hopefully it's consistent with this one...

 

[SamanPatou]

To my knowledge there isn't anything, Jago's the only who can perform this thing (Dataminers discovered that Kim-Wu was also supposed to have it, but it got scrapped before the release of the game) and there are no ghosts or such.

Cinder appeared to be intangible at first, but as I said at the beginning of his section, there are too many counter evidences.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I think we can just put Possibly to save us some time meant for debating this. He blatantly shows this feat, but it's in gameplay, however it doesn't mean that it's not canon nor does it mean that it's contradicted by canon showings. Just like how we deal with the joke moves.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I'm personally against adding NPI or even considering him incorporeal ina practical sense. Maybe his soul is while on his body or as it leaves, but what has been presented here seems to suggest that it becomes physical upon setting foot outside of the body.

 

[Antvasima]

So have you reached any agreements here?

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I'm personally against adding NPI or even considering him incorporeal ina practical sense. Maybe his soul is while on his body or as it leaves, but what has been presented here seems to suggest that it becomes physical upon setting foot outside of the body.

If it becomes physical upon leaving the body then that sounds like a weird duplication ability as his physical form still remains. Makes no sense tbh.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Thats literally headcanon, most logical thing is to go with what we see and know

 

[EliminatorVenom]

If it becomes physical upon leaving the body then that sounds like a weird duplication ability as his physical form still remains. Makes no sense tbh.

I mean, a soul leaving and becoming a physical thing to fight people? That isn't weird, not only the idea is quite simple but it actually has happened plenty of times in fiction. Maybe in the sense of attributing a specific power/ability in the P&A sense, but as a plot device or narrative "thing", it is by far less weird than a spirit that is intangible but touches the ground and is touched by everyone else without explanation.

Mind, I don't think that it is particularly impossible for everyone to have NPI, but with the evidence given, I think it is just the soul taking physical form.