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SamanPatou

VS Battles
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It's finally time to fix Killer Instinct, bringing it back from the grave and improve its status on the wiki.

This revision will be composed of two parts, with the first, this one, being about the original series (Killer Instinct and Killer Instinct 2/Gold), and the second about the 2013 reboot.


General Proposals

The first two games and the reboot don't share a continuity, as there are plenty of major differences between them, including the story, the background and identity of the characters and so on. For example, Eyedol, the boss of the first KI, isn't featured in the plot of the reboot. KI2 takes place in a distant past, while this doesn't happen in the reboot, and the ancient characters (Tusk, Kim Wu and Maya) all live in present times. The very characterization of some characters is different, like Riptor (human-dinosaur hybrid in the og series, cyborg dinosaur in the reboot), Glacius (an explorer in the og series and a galactic police officer in the reboot), Gargos (an ancient demon in the og, an extradimensional warlord in the reboot) and so on.

With that said, I propose to split the profiles for both continuities. The current profiles will stay as they are for the time being, as they will be the base for the Reboot characters, and will be taken care of with the next revision. Characters will then be split in Classic and Reboot. For example, Jago (Classic) and Jago (Reboot).



From now on, I will talk about the statistics and powers for the characters in the original timeline, for which I will create profiles once this revision ends.


The comics:

Before talking about the games, I need to mention the comics and why they will not be included in this revision. Two comic book series were made back in the days, a six-issues one made by Acclaim Comics, and a one-shot made by Nintendo Power. Both comics aren't canon for simple reasons:
  • Nothing implies them being canon (on top of being two separate comics), they are just like licensed material like many other similar examples. They are not even referenced in the canon material I will present in the next section.
  • They all came out before the release of Killer Instinct 2, the canon sequel to the first game, which still doesn't consider them, finally invalidating them.

Canon Material:

Now, let's talk about the games. This is the material I'm going to use for this revision: Obviously, the games themselves:

Killer Instinct:
  • Gameplay (Moves, No Mercy [i.e. fatalities] and such)
  • Character bios (taken from the opening of the game)
  • Arcade Endings (The SNES version features the same endings, just with worse graphic)
  • Game Manual (Killer Instinct was made by Rare, a british company, thus english is the native language and there are no possible translation issues)
Killer Instinct 2/Gold
Rare's Website

Rare, the company which produced the games, used to host plenty of additional info about the story and the characters on their website. Currently their website is totally different, but the original version has been archived and you can find it here. (use the buttons on the right to switch between KI1 and 2).

This is a gallery of screenshots I made, including the relevant informations about the general plot and specific stuff on the single characters.

Xbox Live Website

These two are the pages for Killer Instinct Classic (the name Microsoft gave to the arcade version of KI1) and Killer Instinct 2 on an official Microsoft website, I'm going to use them as references for the names of the characters' moves.


Statistics:

AP and Durability:

Most characters currently are 6-C after a supposed feat about Glacius freezing an entire lake (the calc is already taken from another website and the link to the feat is lost).

The problem here is that the feat doesn't exist. You can go through all games, comics and stuff and you will not find it. Even by skimming the internet you will just find either us, other people in the vs community referencing this without any links or other talking about this feat not existing.

Months ago I found a Reddit thread (which I can't find anymore) that used to provide a link, and the so-called feat would be this. As it can be easily seen, nothing implies Glacius froze the lake. It's just him standing in front of a frozen lake, enraged because he couldn't find his comrades. No other cutscene or piece of text references this, the entire thing is just made up. On top of that, Glacius' stage is located in a snowy region, possibly the Arctic, and looking at the other endings it can be seen how he wanders in these places, making it totally possible for the frozen lake to be a natural formation.


Their new tier should be 9-B+, as the highest feat I could find is the destruction of a wall in Sabrewulf's Castle, which gave this result. All characters can perform this, and the games imply that they are all able to match and kill each other, basically making everyone comparable to the other. Orchid can kill Jago and viceversa, they can kill Fulgore and he can kill them. Sabrewulf can kill Orchid, who killed Eyedol. Sabrewulf can also kill Glacius and vice versa, the same Glacius who should be comparable to his past self who killed Cinder. Kim Wu can kill or be killed by past Spinal, whose future self could compete with Chief Thunder and so on. No scaling issues, at the end of the day.

For transparency, I want to point out the famous Tusk's feat, with which he summons a huge meteor and calculating it gives different results, all higher than 9-B. The problem is that the meteor is summoned, whe don't know how, and there's no reason to scale it to anything else (physicals, fireballs etc.). The summoning also happens off screen, meaning that the meteor could be pulled from space or summoned with teleportation or a portal, we don't know. Let alone the fact that the meteor is supposed to be a finishing move that kills everyone, not exacltly the best evidence to scale its force to everything else the characters do.

As we will see later, several characters have finishers which turn the opponent into dust or bloody goo, things that require 9-A levels of force, but all these feats are performed either by summoning different things or through particularly strong elemental attacks or durability negating moves such as acid.

These characters could have an additional 9-A via X attack, but it can't scale to neither their general AP nor Striking Strength. I will mention each of these characters in their respective sections.


Speed:

They would be Supersonic after a feat performed by Cinder. Cinder can turn into a fireball and fly towards the opponent even as one of his attacks, so it should be safe to scale other characters to this. The feat works both as travel and reaction speed for Cinder, while others would have Supersonic reactions and Superhuman travel speed (they are all comparable to Sabrewulf and Riptor, who at the very least scale to actual animals).


Lifting Strength:

Killer Instinct 2 introduced Throw attacks. The heaviest characters are Riptor (700lbs/317kg) and Fulgore (560lbs/254kg); lifting and throwing them around easily breaches into Superhuman or even Class 1, tell me which is better. As we established before, everyone is comparable to each other, so it should be safe to scale their LS in this way.



Powers, Abilities and miscellaneous stuff:

General:

  • Superhuman Physical Characteristics: Self-explanatory
  • Damage Boost: In both KI1 and 2 you can perform enhanced versions of the characters' special moves, with them being generally faster and stronger. These are the Shadow Moves in KI1 and the Super Moves in KI2.
  • Status Effect Inducement: KI1 features the Dizzy/Stun status, caused by hitting the opponent enough times without leaving them time to recover, just like it happens in Street Fighter. KI2 has the same mechanic, although obtained through particular parry moves (from the KI Gold manual [page 17] which I previously linked)
  • Broadway Force: (link for those who don't know this power exists) In KI1 you can force your opponent to dance by performing a Humiliation. This mechanic didn't return in KI1, therefore it applies only to Jago, Orchid, Fulgore, Spinal, TJ Combo, Riptor, Chief Thunder, Eyedol, Cinder, Glacius and Sabrewulf (some characters will have specific KI1 keys, this power will apply only to them)

Jago:
  • Weapon Mastery: Self-explanatory, Jago uses a sword.
  • Martial Arts: Also self-explanatory, Jago uses many martial arts techniques
  • Acrobatics: Can perform acrobatic special moves, backflips and somersault jumps
  • Ki Manipulation: Can perform the endokuken and its variations, as well as imbue his sword with it
  • Fire Manipulation: Can burn to death his opponents
  • Summoning: Can summong a car from the sky
  • Resurrection + Immortality type 7 + Statistics Amplification + Possibly non-corporeality (maybe): This is a bit weird, basically in KI2 Jago (only him) has a secret technique called "Spirit/Ghost Move" (at least by fans, I don't know if it has an official name) which allows him to sacrifice 1/8 of his health during a match and resurrect as a ghost upong being defeated, using the same amount of health he sacrificed, with the addition of a full bar of energy meter and stronger attacks. (I got the last details from this fan guide, as the few videos available aren't very clear. Since Jago is a ghost, he might have non-corporeality, but he can still hit and be hit by the opponents. This either means he is still somewhat physical, or every character in KI2 has Non-Physical Interaction. Personally I'm leaning more towards the first option.
  • Resistance to Madness Manipulation: The power granted him by Gargos threatened his sanity, but he managed to master it and avoid going mad.

Black Orchid:
  • Weapon Mastery: She wields batons in both games
  • Martial Arts: Self-explanatory, she has a lot of physical attacks
  • Acrobatics: Can perform many acrobatic attacks
  • Stealth Mastery: She is a professional spy and secret agent
  • Ki Manipulation: Can perform the Lasaken
  • Transformation: Can turn into a jaguar via Fire Cat
  • Electricity Manipulation: Can release lethal electricity
  • Transmutation: Can turn the opponent into a frog with the Frog Stomp move
  • Limited/Minor Biological Manipulation: This is also kinda weird, you may know her No Mercy with which she shows her "body" and instantly kills male opponents. Well, this move is officially called Heart Attack, and if we take it as literal it should count as Limited Biological Manipulation for being able to induce heart attacks into males. Otherwise, this should be worded in some other way, like Death Manipulation or something. Despite being a gag, it should be included in some way.
  • Fire Manipulation: In KI2, Orchid's Lasaken has been replaced by a move called Tonfa Fire. Its name matches its appearance, as it looks like a double fireball and leaves fiery trails on the opponent.

Fulgore

First, Fulgore should have two different keys. Stats and powers are almost the same (second key has a couple more powers), as the Fulgore that appears in KI2 is the second versionof the Fulgore type of cyborg and the first got killed by Jago in KI1.

Fulgore Mk.I has:
Fulgore Mk.II has:
  • All previous abilities save for Body Control: He retains his old specials moves but has a different No Mercy. Since the first Fulgore had human parts, it's reasonable to think this one has them too, and is repeteadly called "cyborg".
  • Transformation: Can turn into a bigger robot with his second No Mercy
  • Summoning: Can summon a beam from the sky. I've been informed that melting flesh with heat is impossible, so this isn't valid for 9-A, but there's still ground for a higher.
  • Invisibility: Can become invisible with Inviso
  • Electricity Manipulation: In KI2 Fulgore has a move called Chest Spark, which also appears to be electricity.

TJ Combo

Spinal

Spinal might have two keys. In KI2 he is always himself but earlier in time. Boh versions are about the same, there are just some minor differences in his powers, but the method of his resurrection and his mind, memories and age are different. The former might have also influenced his powers, thus I'm unsure if giving him two keys or not.
  • Immortality type 7: Self-explanatory.
  • Partial Inorganic Physiology: According to this and other articles and stuff bones are mostly inorganic. Spinal is a full skeleton, so it is warranted.
  • Weapon Mastery: Wield a sword and a shield
  • Weapon Control: I have no idea how to call this, but he can extend the spike on his shield with his second No Mercy.
  • Martial Arts: His gameplay features several kicks.
  • Energy Manipulation and Projection: Can infuse his sword with energy. Can also release skull projectiles and other attacks such as Soul Drain (explained below)
  • Teleportation: Can perform Skeleport
  • Absorption: Can absorb projectiles and physical attacks with Power Devour. In KI2 he can use Soul Drain to absorb the opponent's energy meter and add it to his own. (show several times here).
  • Creation: Every time Power Devour absorbs an attack, Spinal creates a Skull which he can use for several moves, such as Searing Skull.
  • Electricity Manipulation: Can summon a lightning that incinerates the opponent. (only in the SNES version, but it should count anyway). Turning people to ashes is 9-A, so Spinal should also have it via this. Some of the following moves feature lightning bolts.
  • Summoning and BFR: Can summon a skeleton that drags the opponent underground. Can also summon hands from the ground and giant skull.
  • Limited Power Mimicry and Shapeshifting: In both games, during a combo, Spinal can transform into his opponent and mimic their attacks and moves.
  • Telekinesis: Can lift and somehow kill his opponents.

Sabrewulf

Glacius

Glacius should also have two keys, because the Glacius(es) of KI1 and 2 aren't the same person. Even here, the only differences are a couple of powers.

General abilities:
  • Ice Manipulation: Self-explanatory. Glacius could also have a 9-A via No Mercy as in both games he can freeze his opponents whole, which requires these levels of energy.
  • Martial Arts: He is mostly a physical fighter
  • Body Control + Self Density Manipulation: Can melt his own body via Liquidize Uppercut
  • Possibily Inorganic Physiology: He might be entirely made of water-like/liquid substance.
  • Weapon Creation and Shapeshifting: Can morph his arms into spears via Ice Lance. KI1 Glacius can morph his arms into spikes, pickaxes.
  • KI2 Glacius can turn them into axes, scimitars and create an ice javelin
  • Teleportation: Can teleport with a variant version of Liquidize (KI1). In KI2 he can do the same, you can notice it by slowing down the video here, where he actually teleports back and forth instead of sliding on the ground as he does with the same move but in a different way.

KI1 Glacius-specific:
  • Size Manipulation and Elasticity (added next to Body Control): Can turn into an elastic blob of variable size.
  • Corrosion: Can turn into an acidic puddle or blob (see above) and melt his opponents.

KI2 Glacius-Specific:
  • Elasticity (added next to Body Control): Can extend his arms via Ice Grip

Chief Thunder

Riptor
  • Natural Weaponry: Uses fangs, claws and his sharp tail
  • Brawling: He is somewhat skilled in close combat and doesn't just fight as a beast
  • Acrobatics: Can perform moves such as Tail Flip and Jump Rake
  • Poison/Acid Manipulation: Can spit a projectile called Flaming Venom. It resembles fire, but its name seems to suggets it being acid. It has a similar move, the Deadly Venom, which kills the opponent on contact on the arcade version, and turns them to ashes in the SNES version (this might also give it a 9-A rating)
  • Fire Manipulation + Breath Attack: Can breath fire via Dragon Breath
  • Body Control: I'm not sure about this, as it's partially a gag and even less serious than Orchid's. Basically he can swallow his opponents to the point of having his belly swollen and quickly return to his normal shape.

Cinder

I was initially thinking of giving him possibly non-corporeality for being repeteadly stated to be "living flame", but eventually I deemed the thing too unreliable given some evidences, including the fact he bleeds, that his condition was caused by chemicals poured on him, the fact he can physically attack his opponents and finally the police was about to arrest him in his ending)

Kim Wu
  • Martial Arts: She uses many physical attacks
  • Weapon Mastery: She wields a nunchaku
  • Ki Manipulation: Via Air Fire and Fireflower (that blue spark)
  • Acrobatics: Can perform acrobatic maneuvers, such as rolls and the Split Kick (linked above)
  • Fire Manipulation: Can char her opponents with her first No Mercy

Maya

Tusk

Eyedol
  • Longevity: Lived for more than 2000 years (page 3)
  • Weapon Mastery: Wields a club
  • Multiple Selves type 3: Possesses two heads, which is considered Biological Multiple Selves
  • Energy Manipulation: Can empower his mace with energy
  • Fire Manipulation: Can shoot a fireball
  • Attack Reflection: Can reflect projectiles
  • Healing: Can heal himself by stomping the ground
  • Possibly Acausality (Type 2, I guess): This thread, basically, I have yet to receive more opinions but it can also be discussed here.

Gargos
  • Longevity: Same reasons as Eyedol.
  • Possibly Acausality: Ditto as Eyedol
  • Brawling: Uses several physical blows
  • Flight: Able to fly
  • Energy Manipulation: Can shoot energy spheres
  • Fire Manipulation + Breath Attack: Can breath fire
  • Healing: Can heal himself by laughing
  • Power Bestowal: Gave Jago his powers
  • Astral Projection: Manifested himself as the Tiger Spirit (this is also interdimensional range, as he was still banished in the Limbo)
  • Social Influencing: Manipulated Jago, disguising himself as the Tiger Spirit
  • Necromancy: Resurrected Spinal
  • Possession and Immortality Type 6: Possessed Sabrewulf in some of Orchid's endings.
  • Weakness: For some reason he could only possess Sabrewulf, meaning that his possession powers could be limited to some individuals, and once the wulf is slain, Gargos is vanquished too. This should also be noted, as Gargos might be unable to possess a second invidual if the first dies.
Currently Gargos' profile has a key for his KI2 self, with some powers that shouldn't be retained in the new profiles, and these are:
  • Darkness Manipulation: Unexplained and I couldn't find anything about it
  • Immortality type 1: This shall be replaced by Longevity, as nothing suggests he can live forever
  • Resurrection: This will be replaced by Necromancy, as it fits better
  • Regeneration Mid-Low and Immortality type 3: I'm fairly sure this is an assumption based on his ability to heal himself, but the extension of this is unknown and we shouldn't make assumptions based on nothing.
  • Curse Manipulation: This is tied to his possession, as the game says he cursed Orchid to have the same fate of her brother (if he is killed) or even both to die. However, this clearly isn't a real curse, as it is fulfilled only in those endings were Sabrewulf is alive and Jago isn't there to save Orchid. It should be taken as a figurative curse.
 
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This looks good!

Now if only Warcraft could get the same treatment without getting stonewalled to the point where I'm thinking about having the verse deleted
 
This looks good!

Now if only Warcraft could get the same treatment without getting stonewalled to the point where I'm thinking about having the verse deleted
I played WC3 before and I'm hoping to get it back without having to pay for it (maybe even StarCraft) and I have a feeling that the current ratings are higher than what is shown tbh. But I've never played WoW so I don't know how much lore do those games keep from the originals.

Back to this CRT, I will check this tomorrow. Hopefully I still have time to give my output by then.
 
I played WC3 before and I'm hoping to get it back without having to pay for it (maybe even StarCraft) and I have a feeling that the current ratings are higher than what is shown tbh. But I've never played WoW so I don't know how much lore do those games keep from the originals.

Back to this CRT, I will check this tomorrow. Hopefully I still have time to give my output by then.
7-A, a tier 6 thing from Illidan in Warcraft 3, 5-B from many different Eredar(KJ, Archimonde), some High 3-A shit, the works.

See you then
 
Before I leave, Orchid's tit flash isn't a supernatural move. People usually get shocked when they see someone do something indecent, especially when it's so sudden. The game exaggerates this to the next level by actually making them faint, so it doesn't seem worth indexing tbh, considering the amount of characters that are sigma males or simply clueless of the physiology of humans in this game. Why would Glacius faint at the sight of Orchid's (breasts? i hope it's not an eldritch creature in her chest) when he arrived on Earth with little prior knowledge on them?
 
I addressed the town level feat in the op, it comes from a meteor summoned off screen through unknown methods, and the calc itself assumes it's pulled from space at super high speed.
The meteor could have been summoned in a million ways, and it can give severe different results depending on how you calc it (Jasonsith also calced it at building and multi-city block level). But even then, there's no reason to scale it to anything else Tusk does, nor to anyone's durability as they instanstly die on impact.
 
Before I leave, Orchid's tit flash isn't a supernatural move. People usually get shocked when they see someone do something indecent, especially when it's so sudden. The game exaggerates this to the next level by actually making them faint, so it doesn't seem worth indexing tbh, considering the amount of characters that are sigma males or simply clueless of the physiology of humans in this game. Why would Glacius faint at the sight of Orchid's (breasts? i hope it's not an eldritch creature in her chest) when he arrived on Earth with little prior knowledge on them?
Exactly because people, aliens and monster are so shocked to the point of dying already makes it supernatural, or at least so out of the ordinary to make it relevant to be listed imo.
 
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I'm sure KI has a very serious story despite all the gags that you'd expect from a 90s game. If we accepted that, we might as well give every MK character the wackiest abilities that they display in finishers, like Kabal's face being too horrifying to behold that it would make one's soul run out of their body. It makes no sense in the grand scheme of the story in OG Timeline KI.
 
(I would accept it, seriously, no joking).

Anyway, I guess this falls down to votes and opinions? Riptor's supposed body control (for which I was also unsure in the first place) would fall under this problem.
 
That too tbh. But at a glance, the abilities and feats that don't seem ridiculous are fine to me.
The only other things that could be seen as ridicolous are Jago and Maya summoning a car and an elephant, but I think they are serious enough (and consistent with Tusk).
 
Not defending tusk meteor thing, but since its a finisher, the victim has to be in a beaten up or weakened state, unless they are akin to a super move then a fatality

Also the kabal thing mentioned earlier happens even in mk11 as a brutality
 
Not defending tusk meteor thing, but since its a finisher, the victim has to be in a beaten up or weakened state, unless they are akin to a super move then a fatality
It's kind of both, you can start performing these finishers when your opponent has about 1/4-5 of their health left, so they don't necessarily have to be totally worn out.

Nevertheless, it wouldn't still make sense for them to become incredibly more fragile even when beaten up. Something similar can happen in a Dragon Ball-like scenario when less ki means less defense, but this is not the case, we don't have a reason to believe these people withstand tier 7-8 level of force casually at full health just to drop down when it lowers. It would also mean that a fully healthy character would basically annihilate an opponent that has half or less health, and this also doesn't make sense and there's no reason to believe it.

(I know you aren't defending it, I just wanted to talk about it more extensively).


Anyway agreeing with all here, it looks great
And thank you for this!


-------------------------------------------

@DaReaperMan what do you think about Orchid and Riptor's finisher? Would you consider it legit to be listed or not? I guess there really isn't a correct way, as both arguments are valid (it being too much of a gag to be considered for some, or it being still legit for others), then I'll start counting the votes:

Gag finishers yes: SamanPatou, XSOULOFCINDERX

Gag finishers no: Ectasy Amphetamine
 
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Looking over this, the Lake freezing feat was originally calculated by someone named Clyde or something; though he appears inactive on the wiki. But it was done on Google+, which was shut down yeah. But I can agree he simply just appears at a frozen lake rather than it being evidence he froze it via his own powers.

Also, for Cinder's scorching/vaporization feat, it's 9-A levels of energy; not force should be the proper term for that. Though I agree heat does not scale to blunt force trauma by default, and there's a lot of debate whether fatality moves are canon given what happened with the Mortal Kombat profiles.

As for the rest, it looks fine from a glance.
 
Also, for Cinder's scorching/vaporization feat, it's 9-A levels of energy; not force should be the proper term for that. Though I agree heat does not scale to blunt force trauma by default.
About this, would Cinder still qualify for "9-B+, 9-A via Meltdown" (the name of the finisher)?

Also not sure if brought up but before in threads for KI, what about the characters being able to punch you in the air at great heights during ultra combos
Jason calculated it as Street+

------------------------



General question for everyone, I'd like direct opinions on Lifting Strength, if it's better to give them Superhuman or Class 1, and if you think Eyedol and Gargos actually qualify for Possible Acausality type 2.
 
You can still hope for the rebooted characters to have higher ratings, as of now I have no idea of what tier they will have, I still have to research quite a lot of stuff.
There's a chance of them scaling to Gargos via Power Ups, but it wouldn't be their base rating and I still can't promise it.

But that's for another time, if you have opinions on the specific matters I mentioned in previous messages (gag finishers, LS, acausality), feel free to give your thoughts.
 
Weapon Control: I have no idea how to call this, but he can extend the spike on his shield with his second No Mercy.
It's worth indexing in his standard equipment rather than his P&A as we unfortunately don't have a power for that.
Broadway Force: (link for those who don't know this power exists) In KI1 you can force your opponent to dance by performing a Humiliation. This mechanic didn't return in KI1, therefore it applies only to Jago, Orchid, Fulgore, Spinal, TJ Combo, Riptor, Chief Thunder, Eyedol, Cinder, Glacius and Sabrewulf (some characters will have specific KI1 keys, this power will apply only to them)
The fact that this power didn't return for the next games tells me that this is just a joke move and nothing more. Makes no sense to me when you connect this to the serious story as everyone's problems would've been solved by this surprisingly powerful ability.
Creation: Every time Power Devour absorbs an attack, Spinal creates a Skull which he can use for several moves, such as Searing Skull.
I'd say this is part of his skull related moves rather than creation. If I'm not mistaken, he doesn't actually create a projectile, but rather converts absorbed projectiles into skulls that he may use. Sounds a lot like gameplay mechanics though...
Spinal might have two keys. In KI2 he is always himself but earlier in time. Boh versions are about the same, there are just some minor differences in his powers, but the method of his resurrection and his mind, memories and age are different. The former might have also influenced his powers, thus I'm unsure if giving him two keys or not.
Doesn't seem like he needs two keys tbh. The differences are too minor in terms of combat related stuff. Even though Ultratech Spinal in KI1 has no memories of the past, he doesn't lack the combat prowess that he shows in the games. KI2 Spinal remembers that he served under Gargos in life and his actual remains were reanimated rather than copied and recreated (like what Ultratech did), but that's about it.
Corrosion: Can turn into an acidic puddle or blob (see above) and melt his opponents.
This is Corrosion Inducement if I'm not mistaken, since it covers water (and water is just liquid ice)
Brawling: Uses several physical attacksm including kicks, knee strikes and headbutts
Don't know why you named it brawling, but this is still a form of martial arts. Knee strikes and headbutts are an actual technique in systematized fighting styles like Shotokan Karate. And his combos don't make him look like a brawler tbh, maybe more like a heavy hitter.

Same goes for Tusk. Being able to skillfully twirl your sword in circles to attack, doing low spin kicks, having some form of footwork when wielding a sword, I'd say that separates him from the berserker/brawler type fighters.
Possibly Acausality (Type 2, I guess): This thread, basically, I have yet to receive more opinions but it can also be discussed here.
I'm still trying to understand this one. More scans perhaps? Preferably in image form.
 
The fact that this power didn't return for the next games tells me that this is just a joke move and nothing more. Makes no sense to me when you connect this to the serious story as everyone's problems would've been solved by this surprisingly powerful ability.
Right, I don't know how could I forget that Humiliations are the most gag-ish thing. But yours isn't a good argument, because there are several other ways characters could have used to easily get rid of enemies, from Orchid turning them into frogs to TJ shooting everyone. But the biggest counter-evidence might be the fact that everyone can do this specific thing, much like Babalities in MK, and I believe this goes even weirder than other gag finishers.

I guess I could put these under their specific vote? Maybe adding a possibly to stay safe in any case?

I'd say this is part of his skull related moves rather than creation. If I'm not mistaken, he doesn't actually create a projectile, but rather converts absorbed projectiles into skulls that he may use. Sounds a lot like gameplay mechanics though...
Yes, he converts projectiles and physical hits into skulls, then he can use them to do special and Shadow moves, from firing projectiles to teleport. It was my way to make this mechanic an actual thing, as he may really create these skulls, but I have no issues if we want to get rid of it.

Don't know why you named it brawling, but this is still a form of martial arts. Knee strikes and headbutts are an actual technique in systematized fighting styles like Shotokan Karate. And his combos don't make him look like a brawler tbh, maybe more like a heavy hitter.

Same goes for Tusk. Being able to skillfully twirl your sword in circles to attack, doing low spin kicks, having some form of footwork when wielding a sword, I'd say that separates him from the berserker/brawler type fighters.
I thought they didn't look much like martial arts techniques, but on a second thought I agree with you they qualify as Martial Arts.

I'm still trying to understand this one. More scans perhaps? Preferably in image form.
Basically in KI2 people were drifted 2000 years into the past, which is the period when Eyedol and Gargos were sealed away, but their past selves didn't seem to be around, hinting to them not existing, and thus making the two warlords acausal. But as QuasiYuri said, they might have ended in the same period but after the warlords' banishment, we can't be sure of that, but if accepted a possibly could still work.


(What I didn't tag is fine to me).


Meant in the original games, not reboot by TJ, where you can with any character uppercut the opponent in the air
I think this is the highest view it can be seen, if we manage to get an idea of how much it is we can easily replicate the calc and see if it surpassess the wall calc.

(While looking at Jason's calc I mistakenly converted 13 feet to 40 meters [because italian calculators want commas instead of dots] and I thought it was way higher than what we see in the old games)
 
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I grew up playing KI a bit, so this is very wholesome and great to see. Kudos to Saman for the dedication and, above everything, good taste in games.

I mostly agree with everything here. I think the gag powers should be listed, even if there must be a note in the bottom explaining that they are, indeed, gag powers, and may be ignored in matches if the matchmaker desires so. I also think the LS feats are solidly Class 1.
 
Right, I don't know how could I forget that Humiliations are the most gag-ish thing. But yours isn't a good argument, because there are several other ways characters could have used to easily get rid of enemies, from Orchid turning them into frogs to TJ shooting everyone. But the biggest counter-evidence might be the fact that everyone can do this specific thing, much like Babalities in MK, and I believe this goes even weirder than other gag finishers.

I guess I could put these under their specific vote? Maybe adding a possibly to stay safe in any case?

Yes, he converts projectiles and physical hits into skulls, then he can use them to do special and Shadow moves, from firing projectiles to teleport. It was my way to make this mechanic an actual thing, as he may really create these skulls, but I have no issues if we want to get rid of it.

I thought they didn't look much like martial arts techniques, but on a second thought I agree with you they qualify as Martial Arts.

Basically in KI2 people were drifted 2000 years into the past, which is the period when Eyedol and Gargos were sealed away, but their past selves didn't seem to be around, hinting to them not existing, and thus making the two warlords acausal. But as QuasiYuri said, they might have ended in the same period but after the warlords' banishment, we can't be sure of that, but if accepted a possibly could still work.
Either way it leads us to guessing answers from stuff that isn't supposedly canon. Possibly sounds fine to me, but I really don't like Broadway Force as a power tbh, so I'll just leave it alone (I remember someone in a LoL thread claiming that a character's broadway hax could bypass resistances to control related abilities because it didn't rely on controlling the body or mind)

I just said that it sounds like gameplay mechanics, not that it should be removed.

Good.

It seems like Gargos and Eyedol were banished from the timeline and into Limbo, so they didn't really exist in any point in time once they were banished. Based on the context, Eyedol is not around because he was already sent back into Limbo (taking his soul as well) not because he only exists as a singularity in time. Also, it might've taken place long after the sealing, even if it says that they were sent 2000 years back. The heroes who banished them were not around as well, likely indicating they are either dead or the writers forgor, but I'm leaning on the former though.
 
KI 2013 is a totally different canon, we will discuss it in the next CRT.

Besides, in Rebooted Eyedol doesn't fight anyone in canon and is stated to be on par with Rebooted Gargos, who already scales incredibly above anything the meteor feat could yield. (This is Eyedol's official story in the KI website)

Everyone blocking it with ease is just game mechanics and shall not be considered when there is scaling established by the lore, otherwise in every fighting game all characters would be equal to each other.
 
Eyedol has the same meteorite feat in KI 2013.... and the characters can block it with ease.
Reboot and original games are separate canons

Also blocking them in gameplay purely is something in any fighting game you can do which isnt the best thing, its just wanking character like that

Edit: wrote timelines instead of canons lol
 
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