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Kamen Rider Horobi VS Yang Xiao Long [1-2-4]
- Thread starter Nicetoderp
- Start date
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I don't feel like this conversation is moving anywhere.
1. I'm seeing a lot NLF arguments here, and just claiming that Horobi is capable of dealing with X and Y based on no-context feats on his verse does not prove anything about him being able to easily overcome Yang to the same exact same extents. You need already-approved calculations or feats comparing Yang's abilities to abilities of the same type of Horobi's opponents so that we can gauge the differences on both a quantitative and qualitative level, if applicable, to see if those things are comparable or not.
2. It's not valid to simply state Horobi's analytical prediction are infinitely better than Yang's or whatever on the sole basis that it has overcome A.I from its own verse before. It's not valid for the same reason that saying no character from the XY verse cannot destroy character B is not a valid argument for arguing that someone else from another verse cannot destroy character B. A human from verse A being qualitatively superior to a supercomputer from verse B in both thought process and execution is not impossible, and in fact, can and does happen quite often not only in VS Battles wiki, but it even happens in real life in very rare occasions. So, while I haven't seen any evidence showing that Yang's predictive and analytical capabilities are superior to that of a super-A.I, there is also no evidence showing the contrary. No-further-context statements exclusive to the lore of a verse cannot be used as decisive, ultimate arguments for asserting a character's significant advantage over another character. This wiki just has never operated on such types of statements. If you want to do it like that, then at least explain the context and how it relates to abilities in the other verse. So unless you're very familiar with how both verses work, you definitely shouldn't just be claiming that some feature makes this other character automatically superior without further context simply because you think the wording in the profiles and within the one verse you are familiar with seems to imply it.
3. I don't know why both sides of the discussion keep bringing up 8-B attacks and durabilities. As far as I know, the keys being explicitly invoked by the rules in the OP don't allow such attacks. Otherwise, the keys would simply be known as 8-B keys and not High 8-C. Anyhow, I should mention that saying "Character X won't be able to hurt character Y because character Y has tanked 8-B attacks before" isn't much valid justification for anything. It's not like all attacks within the same tier are quantitatively identical. It's possible for one to be able to tank certain 8-B attacks and not others, depending on calculations and circumstances and what not. Mindlessly just throwing tiers around without talking about actual AP numbers or context is, once again, useless for discussion.
1. I'm seeing a lot NLF arguments here, and just claiming that Horobi is capable of dealing with X and Y based on no-context feats on his verse does not prove anything about him being able to easily overcome Yang to the same exact same extents. You need already-approved calculations or feats comparing Yang's abilities to abilities of the same type of Horobi's opponents so that we can gauge the differences on both a quantitative and qualitative level, if applicable, to see if those things are comparable or not.
2. It's not valid to simply state Horobi's analytical prediction are infinitely better than Yang's or whatever on the sole basis that it has overcome A.I from its own verse before. It's not valid for the same reason that saying no character from the XY verse cannot destroy character B is not a valid argument for arguing that someone else from another verse cannot destroy character B. A human from verse A being qualitatively superior to a supercomputer from verse B in both thought process and execution is not impossible, and in fact, can and does happen quite often not only in VS Battles wiki, but it even happens in real life in very rare occasions. So, while I haven't seen any evidence showing that Yang's predictive and analytical capabilities are superior to that of a super-A.I, there is also no evidence showing the contrary. No-further-context statements exclusive to the lore of a verse cannot be used as decisive, ultimate arguments for asserting a character's significant advantage over another character. This wiki just has never operated on such types of statements. If you want to do it like that, then at least explain the context and how it relates to abilities in the other verse. So unless you're very familiar with how both verses work, you definitely shouldn't just be claiming that some feature makes this other character automatically superior without further context simply because you think the wording in the profiles and within the one verse you are familiar with seems to imply it.
3. I don't know why both sides of the discussion keep bringing up 8-B attacks and durabilities. As far as I know, the keys being explicitly invoked by the rules in the OP don't allow such attacks. Otherwise, the keys would simply be known as 8-B keys and not High 8-C. Anyhow, I should mention that saying "Character X won't be able to hurt character Y because character Y has tanked 8-B attacks before" isn't much valid justification for anything. It's not like all attacks within the same tier are quantitatively identical. It's possible for one to be able to tank certain 8-B attacks and not others, depending on calculations and circumstances and what not. Mindlessly just throwing tiers around without talking about actual AP numbers or context is, once again, useless for discussion.
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Why the hell does Horobi have a High 8-C when he survived attacks from Shining Hopper?
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His first key already has 2 Ap feat. High 8-C scale to Vulcan and 8-B for survived Breaking Mammoth attack which Breaking Mammoth matched against Gigers, who can do damage to Shining Assault Hopper but he can't take it for a long if they will finish him like Shining Assault Hopper did to JinMaskofthedragon said:
Jamesthetaker
He/Him- 6,808
- 1,879
@MindControl116
I'm not claming on Horobi based on no-context, he upscale to Vulca who already has a calc on his page. I'm not saying that Horobi can perform the same feats as Yang did either. What i'm trying to do is giving arguments for his abilities so he could has chance to counter against her skill advantage and possible found his own way to beat her too.
I'm not exactly knowledgable on RWBY so that's why Weekly is here to argue for Yang. Same goes for me and other members like Link, we trying to explain about Horobi and somewhat the lore of Zero-One so both side could have better grab on each verse knowledge. A.I in Zero-One lack of the skill compare to others experienced individuals but they learn fast, and potentially can beat them in their own style, not just copy of what they did.
Yang skill is still on "learning capability" field which mean Horobi could have chance to defeat her and counter against her style. This doesn't mean Horobi will just "loladapt" and instantly stomp Yang like some characters out there, Yang experience still give him a hard time and it will take more than just superior adaptation to defeat her. Certainly, Yang better skill won't put Horobi down in second, though her can portrayed feats that Horobi can't learned, or at least not in this fight, but it still can be analyzed and be countered by Horobi, she isn't Sigurd from Fate which is something far from Horobi can even compare with.
Yeah, this is something should be bring up sooner, OP restricted both of them to High 8-C so no 8-B here. You could still argue for Yang Semblance able to boost her strength and Horobi scorpion can defend him against stronger attack.
Overall, i think we should solve this problem before moving to debating first, i already give my point here and should everybody read and give your thoughts before this matches got derailed.
I'm not claming on Horobi based on no-context, he upscale to Vulca who already has a calc on his page. I'm not saying that Horobi can perform the same feats as Yang did either. What i'm trying to do is giving arguments for his abilities so he could has chance to counter against her skill advantage and possible found his own way to beat her too.
I'm not exactly knowledgable on RWBY so that's why Weekly is here to argue for Yang. Same goes for me and other members like Link, we trying to explain about Horobi and somewhat the lore of Zero-One so both side could have better grab on each verse knowledge. A.I in Zero-One lack of the skill compare to others experienced individuals but they learn fast, and potentially can beat them in their own style, not just copy of what they did.
Yang skill is still on "learning capability" field which mean Horobi could have chance to defeat her and counter against her style. This doesn't mean Horobi will just "loladapt" and instantly stomp Yang like some characters out there, Yang experience still give him a hard time and it will take more than just superior adaptation to defeat her. Certainly, Yang better skill won't put Horobi down in second, though her can portrayed feats that Horobi can't learned, or at least not in this fight, but it still can be analyzed and be countered by Horobi, she isn't Sigurd from Fate which is something far from Horobi can even compare with.
Yeah, this is something should be bring up sooner, OP restricted both of them to High 8-C so no 8-B here. You could still argue for Yang Semblance able to boost her strength and Horobi scorpion can defend him against stronger attack.
Overall, i think we should solve this problem before moving to debating first, i already give my point here and should everybody read and give your thoughts before this matches got derailed.
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Youre kinda NLFing his adapting to a massive degree. By your logic Horobi would be able to adapt to tier 1 powers used by humans in other works of fiction due to them being on the 'learning capability' field for humans of that verse. We have a rule for adaptation/reactive evolution users on this wiki: They can only be argued to adapt to things theyve shown the capacity to adapt to in their series.
Jamesthetaker
He/Him- 6,808
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Maybe i am, i should probably tune that down. So let me think again about this:
In the series, there is this enemy that can accumulating enough data from past experiences so become stronger and later they can do this during battle . That is normal adaptation ability in the series.
Later, when Zero-One achieved Shining Hopper form, this form can predicts enemy behaviour by studying them, and creates around 25,000 attack and avoidance patterns in consideration of Zero-One's own performance. From there, it is possible to find an optimal solution to a problem within 0.01 seconds. It's high-speed learning abilities can advance in battle (AKA i copy this from the main wiki). Then he has achieved Shining Assault Hopper form which increased his stats and possible programme since it is powered by two different power source.
And then enter Kamen Rider Thouser, who can learns enemy behaviour, makes tens and thousands of behavioural predictions and derives an optimal solution within 0.001 seconds which is then presented to the wearer (I copy this from the main wiki agai). The guy "lolnope" to most of Zero-One forms and borderline stomp him due to superior programming.
However, Horobi despite being a older model of non-combat Humagear without being upgrade or anything, stalemate Thouser and manage to injure him.
Is that enough for you? If there is something too much then just tell me.
In the series, there is this enemy that can accumulating enough data from past experiences so become stronger and later they can do this during battle . That is normal adaptation ability in the series.
Later, when Zero-One achieved Shining Hopper form, this form can predicts enemy behaviour by studying them, and creates around 25,000 attack and avoidance patterns in consideration of Zero-One's own performance. From there, it is possible to find an optimal solution to a problem within 0.01 seconds. It's high-speed learning abilities can advance in battle (AKA i copy this from the main wiki). Then he has achieved Shining Assault Hopper form which increased his stats and possible programme since it is powered by two different power source.
And then enter Kamen Rider Thouser, who can learns enemy behaviour, makes tens and thousands of behavioural predictions and derives an optimal solution within 0.001 seconds which is then presented to the wearer (I copy this from the main wiki agai). The guy "lolnope" to most of Zero-One forms and borderline stomp him due to superior programming.
However, Horobi despite being a older model of non-combat Humagear without being upgrade or anything, stalemate Thouser and manage to injure him.
Is that enough for you? If there is something too much then just tell me.
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Overall, I vote Horobi FMRA but that is not stomp...
Both have close range and AOE attack but without her aura, Horobi still get Ap adventage for a little bit, If she does or she goes to like Super Saiyan?, Horobi still defend her attacks with an energy avatar or take a time to predict her moves that so fast
He (and his A.I. learning) show experience from the fight with opponent who has more combat ability than him like 1000% guy who already stomped Shining Hopper and Waga Kyuuseshu who fought every Another Rider with some prior intel
Both have close range and AOE attack but without her aura, Horobi still get Ap adventage for a little bit, If she does or she goes to like Super Saiyan?, Horobi still defend her attacks with an energy avatar or take a time to predict her moves that so fast
He (and his A.I. learning) show experience from the fight with opponent who has more combat ability than him like 1000% guy who already stomped Shining Hopper and Waga Kyuuseshu who fought every Another Rider with some prior intel
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and by @Jamesthetaker replyed, the series already has the feat from someone before Horobi did with no-context....
but what does "no-context" mean?
but what does "no-context" mean?
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Yang even without her Aura still has an AP advantage, a sizeable one at thatLinkSlayerLvX said:
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@James Okay but how does that help him deal with Yang using her AoE explosions in cqc? Thus far the only instance of him using the scorpion is to block an attack he saw coming wll in advance, he wont be able to do the same against Yang's and due to not knowing about her semblance has no reason to assume her punches are going to become exponentially more powerful at the drop of a hat
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Also if its not obvious im voting Yang for now
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Horobi scale to Vulcan with 4.37 tons while Base Yang fought Mercury with 4.34 tons? isn't right? also with her aura make she gain above between High 8-C+ to 8-B while Horobi were one-shot Vulcan and survived some hit from Shining Hopper and Assualt Wolf finisher make him get badly injuries.WeeklyBattles said:
That has a little different between both.
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Yang scales to Mercury who was undamaged by 5+ tons
Yang with her semblance oneshots people who scale to her normally to people 2x stronger than herself depending on how far she's charged
Yang with her semblance oneshots people who scale to her normally to people 2x stronger than herself depending on how far she's charged
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That is nothing difference to Horobi case so he can scale above when he uses a finisher, like he did to Vulcan and overwhelmed all Base Form Zero-One, Vulcan and Valkyrie without nothing and forced both of them to use upgraded form to defeat him.
Anyway I still stand in my vote.
Anyway I still stand in my vote.
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Seem like @Zero0zero0zero already vote to Horobi then, @Akreious and @Jamesthetaker will go to Horobi
Jamesthetaker
He/Him- 6,808
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I'm voting Horobi too.
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I would still really, really like to know what reasons people are voting Hirobi for. Thus far i havent seen any reasoning for him that hasnt been countered
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AP: Yang (Undamaged by 5+ tons vs Hibori's 4+ tons up to 20 tons and oneshotting people undamaged by 5 tons with her semblance)
Durability: Yang (Undamaged by 5 tons vs Hibori's 4+ tons, up to 20 tons with her aura)
Speed: Equalized
Lifting Strength: Yang (Class K vs Class 5)
Stamina: Yang (Fought for a full day before tiring out vs nondescript superhuman stamina)
Range: Yang (Hundreds of meters vs melee range)
Skill: Yang (As described above)
Literally the only advantage Horobi has here is his analytical prediction and adaptation, which as we've already established are lacking the feats to back up claiming that they'd be able to allow Horobi to surpass Yang in any capacity, lack the feats to deal with Yang using High 8-C explosive AoE attacks in cqc, and lack the capacity to allow Horobi to predict and block Yang's semblance before she lands a punch on him with it.
Durability: Yang (Undamaged by 5 tons vs Hibori's 4+ tons, up to 20 tons with her aura)
Speed: Equalized
Lifting Strength: Yang (Class K vs Class 5)
Stamina: Yang (Fought for a full day before tiring out vs nondescript superhuman stamina)
Range: Yang (Hundreds of meters vs melee range)
Skill: Yang (As described above)
Literally the only advantage Horobi has here is his analytical prediction and adaptation, which as we've already established are lacking the feats to back up claiming that they'd be able to allow Horobi to surpass Yang in any capacity, lack the feats to deal with Yang using High 8-C explosive AoE attacks in cqc, and lack the capacity to allow Horobi to predict and block Yang's semblance before she lands a punch on him with it.
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First,
AP: Likely Horobi but not by much (4.37 ton TNT versus 4.34)
Durability: Likely Yang (Undamaged by 5 tons vs Hibori's 4+ tons, up to 20 tons with her aura)
Speed: Horobi but we equalised speed here
Lifting strength: Yang (Class K vs Class 5)
Hax: Horobi (Has poison that Yang does not resist)
Skill and stamina part is arbitrary here so I will skip that part for now.
Range... I realise that real life modern longbows (which are far weaker than Attache Arrow) can go to hundreds of meters and I wonder why Horobi has Attache Arrow but does not have hundreds of meters range.
Since the profile for Horobi is actually incomplete, it needs a CRT.
To play fair, I retract my vote for now.
Yang - 4 (Milly Rocking Bandit, ShiverPointGaming 101, Nobody6868, WeeklyBattles)
Horobi - 4 (LinkSlayerLvX, Jeodood, Akreious, Jamesthetaker)
AP: Likely Horobi but not by much (4.37 ton TNT versus 4.34)
Durability: Likely Yang (Undamaged by 5 tons vs Hibori's 4+ tons, up to 20 tons with her aura)
Lifting strength: Yang (Class K vs Class 5)
Hax: Horobi (Has poison that Yang does not resist)
Skill and stamina part is arbitrary here so I will skip that part for now.
Range... I realise that real life modern longbows (which are far weaker than Attache Arrow) can go to hundreds of meters and I wonder why Horobi has Attache Arrow but does not have hundreds of meters range.
Since the profile for Horobi is actually incomplete, it needs a CRT.
To play fair, I retract my vote for now.
Yang - 4 (Milly Rocking Bandit, ShiverPointGaming 101, Nobody6868, WeeklyBattles)
Horobi - 4 (LinkSlayerLvX, Jeodood, Akreious, Jamesthetaker)
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Yang scales to a feat of casually being undamaged by 5+ tons, Hobori does not have the AP advantage here
>Hax: Horobi (Has poison that Yang does not resist)
She actually does resist it by virtue of her aura, he cant stab her in order to poison her so his poison is useless
>Hax: Horobi (Has poison that Yang does not resist)
She actually does resist it by virtue of her aura, he cant stab her in order to poison her so his poison is useless
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When can Horobi even do if Yang starts getting an aerial advantage?
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Oh yeah that too, Yang is far more mobile on top of hr range advantage and being able to dodge her ranged shots wont really be useful as her ranged shots have aoe
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Yang's flight is propelling with her ember celica. But her range with AoE should serve better in terms of danmake battles.
This should even things up if not turning more categories to her favour.
Yang FRA for now.
Yang - 5 (Milly Rocking Bandit, ShiverPointGaming 101, Nobody6868, WeeklyBattles, jasonsith)
Horobi - 4 (LinkSlayerLvX, Jeodood, Akreious, Jamesthetaker)
By Versus Thread Rules a final vote tally of 7-4 will be considered valid. So 2 more to conclude. Unless someone wants to say that Yang range stomps for now.
Do not get me wrong: I just want to stretch out what is correct info.(tsundere or not)
This should even things up if not turning more categories to her favour.
Yang FRA for now.
Yang - 5 (Milly Rocking Bandit, ShiverPointGaming 101, Nobody6868, WeeklyBattles, jasonsith)
Horobi - 4 (LinkSlayerLvX, Jeodood, Akreious, Jamesthetaker)
By Versus Thread Rules a final vote tally of 7-4 will be considered valid. So 2 more to conclude. Unless someone wants to say that Yang range stomps for now.
Do not get me wrong: I just want to stretch out what is correct info.
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What are Horobi's reasons for winning?
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Technically the the Yang's durability advantage seems more sizeable thanMilly Rocking Bandit said:
Horobi can poison Yang given a lucky or right hit, and given his analytical skills he should be able to control the range required to land the decisive hit.
But more times than not Yang can win at long range fire bombardments and close range arm wrestling.
To be safe, I want to ask: does Yang stomp here? If there is no winning condition for Horobi, we can close this thread early with another discussion mod approval.
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>Horobi can poison Yang given a lucky or right hit, and given his analytical skills he should be able to control the range required to land the decisive hit.
No he really cant, he would have to fight Yang long enough for her aura to be completely broken to be able to poison her because his poisoning involves stabbing his opponent and injecting poison into them. A lucky shot or direct his isnt going to bypass a full body forcefield.
No he really cant, he would have to fight Yang long enough for her aura to be completely broken to be able to poison her because his poisoning involves stabbing his opponent and injecting poison into them. A lucky shot or direct his isnt going to bypass a full body forcefield.
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Agh damn, I forgot how many range for both, which Horobi seem not like predict her move if she go first at long range attack make I have the same question as Jasonsith 
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I am asking, even if Horobi can try to control his distance, Yang is not stupid enough to let Horobi get out of her favorable ranges.
I am asking: By saying Yang should win here, is anyone really thinking by how far she does so? If it is a range stomp (SPEED EQUALISED), then it is. And another mod has to be called upon to close this.
I am asking: By saying Yang should win here, is anyone really thinking by how far she does so? If it is a range stomp (SPEED EQUALISED), then it is. And another mod has to be called upon to close this.
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At the range you startd them at no, Yang would use her range if she realized she's getting outmanuvered in cqc but she wouldnt range spam the entire fight
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How does Aura stand up to acid?
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It blocks it, same way it blocks lava
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I want to ask how much yang aura can take damage before it break because as far i remember they don't have many ways to recover aura faster other than resting and having jaune helping them.
Jamesthetaker
He/Him- 6,808
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What's the Aura made of?WeeklyBattles said:
Jamesthetaker
He/Him- 6,808
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It's a energy forcefield.
Randomlamdom
They/Them- 1,676
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Made out of soul power
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