Kamen Rider Decade and Zi-O Tier Revision

[Sir_Ovens]

This will be a relatively straightforward revision with complex changes.

So we know from Episode 46 of Zi-O that Eternal can physically destroy multiple Another Worlds, giving him 2-C. This should scale to Another Decade who should be stronger than him and sustain those Another Worlds through his own power. This in turn scales to Decade, since Another Decade has only half his power.

So my proposal is to give Decade and all those who scale to him flat 2-C, possibly 2-B AP. The reasoning for his 2-B rating is already on his profile so I won't elaborate on it further.

Given this, I want to also change the tiering for Zi-O. Zi-O with Decade Armor would be 2-C, possibly 2-B for the same reasons as Another Decade. However, it doesn't make sense that his base would scale to this pre-Grand Zi-O since Decade stomps him handily without the armor.

As such, I think we should separate all the Zi-O Riders into Pre-Grand Zi-O and Post-Grand Zi-O keys (sans Decade for obvious reasons). I have already gotten a calc from DMUA of Pre-Grand Zi-O that got 8-B results. I have also revamped the pages for both Zi-O and Decade on my sandboxes. All the justifications for their changes are within the descriptions already and any Rider power is already on the pages of our existing Riders.

The only problem I haven't got around to solving is speed. But that requires its own dedicated thread so I'll leave it alone for now.

 

[Everything12]

All of this makes sense, I agree.

 

[TokiNoOuja]

I aggree

 

[Nicetoderp]

Has been discussed on discord already so I agree

 

[Metal Batta]

I agree

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Since there's absolutely no opposition, I guess this is fine to add.

 

[MagiSinbad]

Decade stomps him handily without the armor.

To be honest, i still heavily disargreed with this.
While Decade indeed stomped Geiz and Zi-O, he didnt stomp them through sheer AP, but rather through his experience as a veteran Kamen Rider.
As you can see in some of these fights, Geiz and Zi-O didnt managed to land a hit on him because Decade is too overskilled to them.
On the other hand, Decade Armor, which is 50% of Decade's power, isnt all that impressive, and was proven multiple times to struggle to fight opponents that could compete with Zio's base form. Not to mention, Geiz detransformed DA Zio with his finisher before.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

The Geiz thing would be a massive outlier since it was a one-time thing. The instances you show us show Decade just wrecking them effortlessly, and the instance against Shinobi was him using attack reflection, so it makes sense that the attack would hurt Geiz and Zi-O.

 

[MagiSinbad]

The Geiz thing would be a massive outlier since it was a one-time thing.

Doesnt seem outlier at all since DA Zio showed multiple time that he has to take effort to bring an enemy down, said enemy is 8-B while DA Zio is 2-C

The instances you show us show Decade just wrecking them effortlessly

Yes, through skills, not through AP.

and the instance against Shinobi was him using attack reflection, so it makes sense that the attack would hurt Geiz and Zi-O.

i probally should have show the instance before that where DA Zio is fighting with Shinobi, and tried to used Heiseiber technique at him.
All DA Zio fights just show that DA Zio while superior to base Zio, but isnt really far from his base form.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I don't think those instances prove your point considering the Another Ghost instance was just Zi-O destroying him. Effort or not, Another Ghost was properly destroyed by Decade Armor.

Decade just had to punch Geiz once to push him back. That's not what I call getting "outskilled".

Besides blocking Decade Armor's hits once or twice, he was properly overwhelmed until he reflected Decade Armor's attack.

 

[MagiSinbad]

I don't think those instances prove your point considering the Another Ghost instance was just Zi-O destroying him. Effort or not, Another Ghost was properly destroyed by Decade Armor.

yes, through a proper Decade Armor's finisher. We all know that Kamen Rider can one-shot the opponents around their level with their finisher. Decade Armor is no exception. This just prove that while DA Zio is stronger, he is still around Another Ghost level.

Decade just had to punch Geiz once to push him back. That's not what I call getting "outskilled".

Decade know when to strike and know when to dodge perfectly, Geiz (like Zi-O) wasnt able to get a hit on him. If he did, i can imagine he will take damages like how Decade Armor did (Albeit less damage, since DA is jus 50% of his power).

Besides blocking Decade Armor's hits once or twice, he was properly overwhelmed until he reflected Decade Armor's attack.

Shinobi was overwhelmed through sheer number of Zio and Geiz, and he did tanked Heiseiber's technique, if the gasp is truly 8-B and 2-C, Shinobi would be destransformed right where he stand. Not to mention, Geiz did tanked the attack of Zio DA Blade.

 

[Lonkitt]

I agree with Tier 2 Decade as I've already discussed over Discord. Same with those weaker than DA Zi-O being 8-B. As for the debate above, yes Tsukasa's skill is easily greater than that of Sougo and Geiz's, but consider the fact that Decade stomped Geiz without really switching forms. He stomped him as Agito and he stomped him as Ghost. Both were different instances. Versatility didn't play a part in his battles against him

 

[BERRIES555]

What about Jumbo Decade? Should we change the profile, put it into Tsukasa 2009 profile or just drop it entirety?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Jumbo Decade either belongs on a Legend Rider version of Decade's page, or as its own page since the form is movie exclusive and Decade can't access it on his own.

However, the power-up is so minor I think it hardly needs a page anyway.

 

[BERRIES555]

The movies it came is canon so it would contradict the Legend Rider Page. But I do a agree it we could delete the profile since it’s so minor.

 

[BERRIES555]

Is there any problems if we add it to the original decade page?

 

[Lonkitt]

Original Decade should be tier 2 as well, yeah

 

[BERRIES555]

No, I mean Jumbo Decade. Would Jumbo Decade be added to the original profile since the only real difference is his size his and massive AP boost.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yeah.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Pretty much agree with this

 

[MagiSinbad]

but consider the fact that Decade stomped Geiz without really switching forms. He stomped him as Agito and he stomped him as Ghost. Both were different instances. Versatility didn't play a part in his battles against him

Yes, but all Decade's forms are just comparable to his base form, just with different abilities. Versalities didnt play as a part much other than Hibiki's, i agreed, but Decade still stomp them through experiences rather than just AP, look at when he fight Ghost Armor Geiz, he know what to expect Geiz gonna do with Ghost power, ultilizing Ghost's abilities at best as he can and perfectly match Another Ghost in a team up fight to fight Geiz.
In all Decade's fight, he mostly overpower Geiz and Zi-O through experiences, but never AP. So we cant say the gasp between Decade and Zi-O crew can be that massive (8-B and 2-C) when we actually see him have to take effort to corner them with his attack and has to uses Final Attack Rides (Which is his strongest cards) to finish them up.

Not to mention, every time Decade Armor has screentimes, it's consistently proves that it's more of a minor power up like other armors (albeit still stronger due to the ability to uses final form ride of other Ridewatches), rather than an actual powerhouse power up like Zi-O II, and even Zi-O II also doesnt just one-shot his 8-B enemies with normal 2-C attacks.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

As an aside, I'm removing Diend's Another Zi-O II key. It was a temporary form that appeared for like 5 minutes in one episode. It's hardly even a power-up so I don't think anything will be missed if I remove it.

 

[TokiNoOuja]

As an aside, I'm removing Diend's Another Zi-O II key. It was a temporary form that appeared for like 5 minutes in one episode. It's hardly even a power-up so I don't think anything will be missed if I remove

Should we added Another Ohma Zio on Kakogawa Hiryuu profile???

 

[Sir_Ovens]

That would be part of another profile, since the Over Quartzer storyline is part of a different timeline.

 

[TokiNoOuja]

That would be part of another profile, since the Over Quartzer storyline is part of a different timeline

Yeah i hope can add it since Another Ohma Zio has a good feats

 

[Jamesthetaker]

I agree with this.

 

[LinkSlayerLvX]

Yeah Yeah I agree