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Kaguya’s ETSO

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Arc7Kuroi

Arc7Kuroi

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So this thread is primarily a big clarifying question, but will serve as a “downgrade” if there’s no concrete answer to my following question.

Rabbit Realm
To my understanding, Kaguya is High 4-C with her ETSO for being able to create a realm with a star in it. However, again to my understanding, the notion that her realm contains a star is because we see a star in the sky when Sasuke travels to one of her worlds.

My following issue with that is, by precedence, seeing a star in the sky doesn’t mean that star is contained within said realm. If that wasn’t the case then we’d have Large Star level Demon King and Supreme Deity from Nanatsu no Taizai, among plenty of other verses that have realms with stars in the sky.

Of course if there’s a statement that specifically states that said star is indeed a part of Kaguya’s dimension, then by all means drop that scan and debunk my entire thread. If there is no such evidence, Kaguya needs a downgrade from High 4-C, or other verses need some upgrades.

Kaguya’s New Proposed Rating
My rating change I would propose is, “5-B with ETSO (Able to recreate her dimensions which include planets)” or something along those lines.
 
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Reported and banned.

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ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Is this a serious thread or....?
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Yes it is, Alex is a goober, but I’m genuinely questioning why we can assume that star is Kaguya’s when we don’t do that with most other verses.

Most people I’ve talked to off site that participate on sight seem to agree with my concerns, so I went and posted.
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
I don’t follow, why isn’t the star in her realm?
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Generally the positive claim has to be proven and not the negative claim.

So the real question is what proves the star is a part of her realm.

Afaik, on site, we don’t treat “seeing a star in the sky” as equivalent to “realm must contain said star”.
 
I want to clarify something because a few nerds have brought this up to me in discord.

When I bring up the NNT comparison, I’m not trying to say “if this verse can’t do it neither can this other verse”. I’m merely bringing it up as a consistency check.

To my knowledge, all we have for Kaguya is: stated to create her realm + see a star. For NNT we have the literal same case of “created realm + see star”, you can name more verses than NNT to compare too, it just came to mind. The cases are so similar it warrants comparison in a consistency check.

This is not a spite thread lol.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Yes it is, Alex is a goober, but I’m genuinely questioning why we can assume that star is Kaguya’s when we don’t do that with most other verses.
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Except we do assume this for most verses? And mostly because of blatant common sense?

Idk what SDS's situation is, but unless there's some evidence of Kaguyas dimensional spaces being some transparent space-time, there is absolutely no reason to think the stars in her dimension(s) wouldn't be physically present inside of them.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
And even then, ETSO is its own rating, not something that scales directly to Kaguya at all.
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It having its own rating isn't relevant at all.

ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Except we do assume this for most verses? And mostly because of blatant common sense?

Idk what SDS's situation is, but unless there's some evidence of Kaguyas dimensional spaces being some transparent space-time, there is absolutely no reason to think the stars in her dimension(s) wouldn't be physically present inside of them.
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No we don't. Yhwach is stated capable of recreating the Bleach realms, which we accept are universal in size, but we don't accept that. DK and SD are stated to have created their realms, said realms are shown with stars, but we don't accept that. I'm sure there's more I'm missing.

Where is the proof that Kaguya's realms are spatiotemporaly isolated from everything else? If all we need is a creation statement + visuals of what was created, we'd have so many more tier 4/3/2 characters.


"They created their realms, there's no indication they created an entire dimension or universe, and for all we know, they could just exist in the same Solar System, which has billions of stars, or went to another universe that has those things

The fact that your immediate conclusion is to suggest the Demon King and Supreme Deity are Star level is so telling" ~The Certified MitchAubin

Yeah clearly we don't make these assumptions.
 
This is the first time I’m hearing “stars in the sky of a realm aren’t a part of the realm”. Apart from Kaguya’s Tiering, Mario is 4-A scaling from something that created a realm with stars in the sky, and I presume other 4-A characters that receive their ratings from “creating a pocket dimension with a starry sky” have similar reasoning.

The premise of this downgrade just seems strange.
 
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I'm sorry but, WHAT? What kind of logic is this?

Anything seen in a different dimension SHOULD BE ASSUMED TO BE IN THAT DIMENSION BECAUSE WE'RE SEEING IT IN THAT DIMENSION.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
It having its own rating isn't relevant at all.
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It is as it causes no issues when it doesnt scale to anyone but itself.
Arc7Kuroi said:
No we don't. Yhwach is stated capable of recreating the Bleach realms, which we accept are universal in size, but we don't accept that.
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Gross false equivalence. The bleach realms have absolutely never been assumed as being some transparent space-times like you are suggesting Kaguyas here, for whatever reason, are. Not to derail this into something else, but this is an entirely different situation and context.

The bleach realms and the contents within said realms are accepted as universes. The stars in Kaguyas realms making them cosmic size should be looked at the same way.
Arc7Kuroi said:
DK and SD are stated to have created their realms, said realms are shown with stars, but we don't accept that. I'm sure there's more I'm missing.
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See above. And also, im fairly certain that the former case with SD and DK are outliers, while in this case, Kaguya is doing it with something that scales to absolutely nothing but itself.

If so, that is another false example.
Arc7Kuroi said:
Where is the proof that Kaguya's realms are spatiotemporaly isolated from everything else?
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Aside from the fact that the literal only means of traveling between each of her dimensions is via space-time portals or cross-dimensional teleportation like what Kaguya uses, Obito outright specifies that all of Kaguya's time-spaces are extremely far from each other when looking through them to locate Sasuke.

As well as the fact that, well, they're called time-spaces.
Arc7Kuroi said:
If all we need is a creation statement + visuals of what was created, we'd have so many more tier 4/3/2 characters.
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Once again, see above. The tier is only with the move. Said move scales to nothing but itself. Scaling from characters where they are either outliers, inconsistencies, or different cases all together are not the same as this particular case.
Arc7Kuroi said:

"They created their realms, there's no indication they created an entire dimension or universe, and for all we know, they could just exist in the same Solar System, which has billions of stars, or went to another universe that has those things

The fact that your immediate conclusion is to suggest the Demon King and Supreme Deity are Star level is so telling" ~The Certified MitchAubin

Yeah clearly we don't make these assumptions.
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One staff member's takeaway on how we judge cosmic creation isn't exactly enticing. And I disagree with that anyway.

A creation feat is blatantly that, a creation feat. Now whether or not the feat is an outlier or causes major inconsistencies in tiering and scaling is a completely different situation, but that doesnt change the fact that the feat, for in and of what itself is, would be a creation feat. Theres 0 reason to believe that the contents within said realm are magically outside of it and the space-time is some transparent dimensional space where things outside of the realm are seen.

That rises to a level of mental gymnastics and logic not implied anywhere within the given series, and its the exact same case here with Naruto.
 
Genuinely, why would you be able to see shit that's not inside of the dimension? Why wouldn't it be in the dimension? You have to make a really, really weird assumption of a space-time dimension being planet sized, and not have any separation from anything around it. This makes even less sense when we call travelling between space-times dimensional travel.

Sunlight with dimensional travel, anyone?
 
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Axxtentacle said:
Genuinely, why would you be able to see shit that's not inside of the dimension? Why wouldn't it be in the dimension? You have to make a really, really weird assumption of a space-time dimension being planet sized, ant not have any separation from anything around it. This makes even less sense when we call travelling between space-times dimensional travel.

Sunlight with dimensional travel, anyone?
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^

VERY very few dimensional spaces in fiction will be treated like this, and it is so rare that im honestly flabbergasted that some here think this is something common enough to argue as a default standard for realm-based creation feats when that is very far from the truth. A realm being created or altered with starry/galactic contents should literally always be first seen as having said contents inside itself.

Unless the verse gives very specific evidence that says otherwise on that.
 
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