Kaguya's ETSO The Final Chapter: Part 1, Episode 2

[DavidTPPM]

My lazy ass dropped the thread few days ago what's the current conclusion?

 

[LordTracer]

I still prefer Godernet’s version of the rule. As it’s been mentioned before, the wording of MinatoSparkle’s version leaves too much room for exploitation. Also, no other discussion rule has been as vague and up to user interpretation as “unless you think you’ve made a new argument”, and I don’t think something that’s been as frequently rejected as this should have such a caveat.

 

[Damage3245]

Yeah, I think there's enough support to apply it now.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Yeah just apply and close this thread at this point. I'm eagerly waiting for arc's thread

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I still prefer Godernet’s version of the rule. As it’s been mentioned before, the wording of MinatoSparkle’s version leaves too much room for exploitation. Also, no other discussion rule has been as vague and up to user interpretation as “unless you think you’ve made a new argument”, and I don’t think something that’s been as frequently rejected as this should have such a caveat.

But people aren't really overly exploiting even the current discussion rule, there's merely a few threads sent in that's countable on your hands

 

[Godernet]

I don't see the reason of mentioning the jutsu having the same attack power as a normal rasengan unless it exclusively has the same ap, if his own power was insignificant it wouldnt make sense to make mention of it
If it was purely converted into zettatons for boruto to fire at the enemy then we would not see side effects like destroying their sense of balance and having a ceaseless recurring effect

if we analyse what the database entry listed

Boruto Database: Rasengan Uzuhiko | NARUTO OFFICIAL SITE (NARUTO & BORUTO)

Rasengan Uzuhiko Classification: Ninjutsu Wielder(s): Boruto Uzumaki

naruto-official.com

it NEVER once states that AP is added to the jutsu (utilising a force =/= only can be used in ap)

Uzuhiko's AP is verbatim stated to have boruto's rasengan ap and NOTHING ELSE, the rotational forces affect Code's sense of balance and applies the attack in a different style

I think this is a misinterpretation of how the jutsu works,

Let me break down this Jutsu description bit by bit rq

"A new form of Rasengan that utilizes not only one's own chakra, but also the planet's rotation and orbit, plus the corresponding centrifugal and other forces."

Q: What do we know from this?

A: Uzuhiko is a Rasengan that utilizes the caster's innate chakra and the various energies involved in a Planet's rotation.


"In addition to the damage that a standard Rasengan causes, it destroys the target's sense of balance, debilitating them."

Q: What do we know based on this?

A: Rasengan Uzuhiko causes two types of damage:

• Physical because at the end of the day, it's still a Rasengan.
• Mental by destroying the target's sense of balance.

This statement never separates Boruto's chakra from the Planet's chakra to imply that the Planet's Chakra is only responsible for the Mental Damage whereas Boruto's Chakra is only responsible for the AP aspect.

In fact, Boruto's fight with Hidari straight-up shows that the opposite is true.

Boruto uses a Rasengan on Hidari but does pm inconsquential damage

Boruto decides it's best to use Uzuhiko at Maximum Output so that he can one-shot Hidari.

This shows that not only is Uzuhiko stronger than his normal Rasengans, but that the output of Uzuhiko directly correlates with its AP.

As well as that there is "no limit" to Uzuhiko's power.

We then see a non Max Output Uzuhiko erase most of Hidari confirming it does more physical damage than a normal Rasengan.

The entire context of the scene is about physically damaging Hidari and then it is confirmed, we can pretty much say with almost 100% certainty that Uzuhiko is stronger than his normal Rasengan and that the Planetary Chakra does amplify the attack power of Uzuhiko.

 

[Godernet]

There isn't really any statement that tells us she is pumping energy every second while the process of the jutsu

There really doesn't need to be.

ETSO was shown to be forming from the continuous IT Chakra being added to a TSO.

We know it's continuous therefore we know it's constantly moving towards its end point which is destroying the dimension.

If we know how much is destroyed (the dimension), and have a timeframe (which we do have one that was lowballed for the sake of having something calcable)

Then we have all we need to determine how much energy would need to be pumped per second for the Jutsu to reach its minimum stated end point.

it's finished production is what zetsu says so all which that requires addition of chakra is already done unless I'm missing something

Sasuke says that it is continuing to grow, so it is not complete.

it is called an "Expansive" TSO for a reason.

It will continue to grow until it destroys the dimension it's in.

it's not like TSO are Bijuu Bombs, they don't explode.

The ETSO would have kept expanding in size until it destroyed everything in that dimension.

and this should scale to Kaguya post IT absorption and the only ones that would scale to that version of hers are maybe kakashi and momoshiki, Kinshiki.

Why would they scale to the value we give to the jutsu expanding overtime for an unquantifiable amount of time until it destroys Kaguya's World?

The 15 timeframe is bogus it shouldn't be anymore than 10 minutes either due to the two statements implying it'll happen swiftly

As far as I know there are no statements that say ETSO will grow to the size of the entire dimension "quickly", and even then thats not a very quantifiable timeframe.

But if you could drop them I can take a look.

that's why Shibai ascended to a higher dimension so the default assumption should be IT Chakra goes into Kaguya who makes the ETSO instead of IT chakra's one portion going to her and the other part going to ETSO

The problem with your logic is this,

Kaguya did make the ETSO before splitting off from it, however, this ETSO that we see here was not going to destroy the dimension, what was going to destroy that dimension is that ETSO, growing and growing and growing, until it eventually could.

If this was something like Naruto Storm 4, where the ETSO rapidly expands to a decent size and then just explodes, where you can somewhat imply the dimension was destroyed due to an explosion rather than a continuously expanding, self-sustaining, ball of energy that the creator isn't actively involved with the expansion of after a certain point, then you might have more of a reason to argue that.

 

[Godernet]

Took me a bit to come back to this, was kinda busy.

As far as I understand Damage and Tracer agreed to my version.

Slayer doesn't mind it either way from what I heard last, and KT while not specific in his last comment, did express his opinion of ETSO scaling which kinda leaned more toward what I was proposing.

Could you ping the staff that commented on the original proposal to see what they prefer?

Besides Mav, who hasn't popped up again, it seems like everyone has pretty much shared their stance already, wanna give it more time? I'm not pressed either way and it'll give me some time to draft up the final version.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Took me a bit to come back to this, was kinda busy.

As far as I understand Damage and Tracer agreed to my version.

Slayer doesn't mind it either way from what I heard last, and KT while not specific in his last comment, did express his opinion of ETSO scaling which kinda leaned more toward what I was proposing.


Besides Mav, who hasn't popped up again, it seems like everyone has pretty much shared their stance already, wanna give it more time? I'm not pressed either way and it'll give me some time to draft up the final version.

Sure

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Boruto uses a Rasengan on Hidari but does pm inconsquential damage

Boruto decides it's best to use Uzuhiko at Maximum Output so that he can one-shot Hidari.

This shows that not only is Uzuhiko stronger than his normal Rasengans, but that the output of Uzuhiko directly correlates with its AP.

This is not due to increased AP, the nature of Uzuhiko is that instead of a traditional attack sending damage in a straightforward manner, Uzuhiko coils around and destroys the target using a vortex that spins violently to the point of negating their durability, just because x couldnt beat y but z could doesnt necessarily mean z>>>x
we need to make note of how that result was attained.

Instance 1 : Boruto incorporates the Kinetic Energy of the Earth's movement into his increasing his attack potency, greatly intensifying his power output, for this interpretation we should not be seeing the side effects that occur mentally, we should not see the jutsu coiling around and having Code feel a spinning sensation
After all there is no reason for that to occur since we are assuming all the KE energy was used to bump up his joule count to a higher number, this assumption relies on poor assumptions that make little sense

Instance 2 : Boruto incorporates the spinning and movement of the planet and replicates the same effect to the Jutsu's victims, since the enemy is met with said spinning force instead of normal damage, this makes perfect sense for the character to loose his sense of balance and suffer through psychological damage

Code straight up remains standing after being blasted with the Jutsu emphasizing it is less about the damage done initially but rather the side effects that occur overtime even more reason to disagree with a greater power output, He is not falling on the ground initially despite being thrown back

As you can see in this panel Code is being afflicted with the effects over time, had this bumped simply attack power Code would not be standing and falling a while later, he would be hit with the full force and stay withering on the ground instead of having its effects intensify over time (TLDR he should fall down at first instead of remaining standing and then slowly falling down and then suffering indicating the latter effects dealt more trouble)


So far the only evidence you had (that I read at the time of writing this) to back your point is proven NOT mutually exclusive to your interpretation

Some Additional things I would like to add is that Boruto's Rasengan unironically damaged Hidari to the point of needing to heal himself through those roots, your argument works in a way of saying "x is bigger than y despite both being able to penetrate z so x has greater ap/piercing power" which is incorrect.
A charged Uzuhiko was able to cover more range as well as incorporate the spinning force which destroyed Hidari's body, quite literally nothing in this gives you more AP

Uzuhiko is indeed stronger than his normal rasengan and that's because of it's additional effects rather than greater power output, a claim that is proven to be consistent with it's showings

Sorry for making this super long

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

There really doesn't need to be.

ETSO was shown to be forming from the continuous IT Chakra being added to a TSO.

Based on what information did you deduce this part? We saw chakra flow up each time they get mentioned instead of it occurring passively in the background, not only that even assuming Kaguya is being pumped with IT chakra each second of the fight (Makes no sense to assume that because after the statement and showing of IT chakra absorption she was stated to have increased stats, by your interpretation it would be illogical to say there was a significant increase as that significant increase would be happening every second)

As I was saying even assuming that you would need to prove that she was pumping chakra every second consciously for 15 years straight (bro come on I know you don't believe this)

Sasuke says that it is continuing to grow, so it is not complete.

it is called an "Expansive" TSO for a reason.

It will continue to grow until it destroys the dimension it's in.

it's not like TSO are Bijuu Bombs, they don't explode.

The ETSO would have kept expanding in size until it destroyed everything in that dimension.

Jutsu Execution being a continuous process =/= Jutsu production being a continuous process
I would interpret this similar to Pain's Shinra Tensei, in both scenes the writer is trying to show a jutsu gradually destroying large structures for the sake of creating hype, it not being instant destruction is not evidence to say it hasn't finished building up energy or that if the user falters it will stop midway that is a very out of place assumption with no backing whatsoever

Why would they scale to the value we give to the jutsu expanding overtime for an unquantifiable amount of time until it destroys Kaguya's World?

Using Bijuubombs as a reference to understand this as they are visually similar, you see them initiate as tiny orbs, they are not credited for being orbs but rather what they expand into which is large scale destruction that ranges across Tier 6, we assume the orb in their mouths would be that strong ap wise even if they didnt expand simply because they carry the energy inside them, when they finish production they already have the same energy regardless of form, In absence of solid counter evidence this should be the default assumption paired with the fact that Zetsu straight up says it's production is complete

As far as I know there are no statements that say ETSO will grow to the size of the entire dimension "quickly", and even then thats not a very quantifiable timeframe.

But if you could drop them I can take a look.

There were two, both of them were in the scan you linked

Sasuke says that it is continuing to grow, so it is not complete.

^^

Kakashi says even if they escape into another dimension they are not gonna be able to return implying it's size will massively increase to the point of not having enough room for Team 7 to return for combat purposes

Naruto and Sasuke acknowledge that this is a grave issue that needs to be dealt with which is why Naruto follows up Sasuke's dialogue by saying it is necessary to seal her NOW emphasizing the destruction is a pretty quick process

[In The Anime 14:33 Episode 473] it is also portrayed as growing pretty quick which would justify Kakashi and co's comments about the Jutsu

The problem with your logic is this,

Kaguya did make the ETSO before splitting off from it, however, this ETSO that we see here was not going to destroy the dimension, what was going to destroy that dimension is that ETSO, growing and growing and growing, until it eventually could.

If this was something like Naruto Storm 4, where the ETSO rapidly expands to a decent size and then just explodes, where you can somewhat imply the dimension was destroyed due to an explosion rather than a continuously expanding, self-sustaining, ball of energy that the creator isn't actively involved with the expansion of after a certain point, then you might have more of a reason to argue that.

This part was a little confusing for me to read, making me think there were multiple ETSOs shown, I will be assuming you meant the ETSO's size is enlargening to the point of destruction which I am not necessarily against but do not see the line of justification for that claim.
Now based on the databook descriptions it implies otherwise as simply growing doesn't really lead to beyond subatomic destruction that it has hyped up, it also states that it hides "world erasing powers" within, as stated twice to be like the TSO it would have traditional destruction/erasure since that is what we have seen with their miniature counterparts, I'm not sure how that proves Kaguya is constantly pumping in chakra to it so I'll await for you to correct me

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Also,
the title of the CRT says P1E2, may I see the episode 1 if that exists?

 

[Nierre]

Boruto uses a Rasengan on Hidari but does pm inconsquential damage

Boruto decides it's best to use Uzuhiko at Maximum Output so that he can one-shot Hidari.

This shows that not only is Uzuhiko stronger than his normal Rasengans, but that the output of Uzuhiko directly correlates with its AP.

Boruto's Rasengan outright shredded and destroyed part of Hidari's body, it wasn't "inconsequential damage", he was just able to escape and regenerate. If Boruto had a Rasengan of bigger range, like Uzuhiko, he would have been capable of one-shotting Hidari before he could escape to regen. Boruto didn't need a stronger Jutsu, he just needed something to finish Hidari off in one blow (pause). This isn't good evidence.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Yeah Uzuhiko is not a good cap. It would be like saying Galactus caps at planet level because he feeds on planets.

And every bit of context makes it worse, from the "no limit" statement to the part about the planets rotation mainly causing dizziness.

Don't get me wrong I'm against the ETSO scaling to stats arguments but Uzuhiko is just not a good argument against it.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Yes, Uzuhiko technique does not break Etso.

Can you also answer the MAS>ETSO argument I wrote? I'm talking about MAS being called the strongest jutsu.

.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Can you also answer the MAS>ETSO argument I wrote? I'm talking about MAS being called the strongest jutsu.

The issue was, iirc, that the statement is vague. It could mean it's the strongest jutsu right now, it could mean strongest jutsu in history. We don't know so it's too vague to use.

Also ETSO isn't strictly offensive. Using the current "it just expands" interpretation it's barely offensive at all, meaning MAS being stronger wouldn't necessarily make it scale above ETSO

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

The issue was, iirc, that the statement is vague. It could mean it's the strongest jutsu right now, it could mean strongest jutsu in history. We don't know so it's too vague to use.

Also ETSO isn't strictly offensive. Using the current "it just expands" interpretation it's barely offensive at all, meaning MAS being stronger wouldn't necessarily make it scale above ETSO

Yeah no ETSO is most certainly an offensive jutsu


"you will all be it's sacrifices"
"it has the power to turn the world to naught"

Everything about it screams offensive


as for if its in naruto arsenal or his history, I feel like the latter could be assumed since it doesn't say the strongest jutsu in their arsenal even tho many statements in the series will make mention of being the most superior version as shown when they say "strongest long range jutsu" "fastest punch" etc you can see they tend to be specific for individual arsenal statements so assuming in all of history so far wouldn't be far fetched and "strongest" and "strongest in history" are pretty close so they might have left it out for that reason but I can understand taking a conservative stance on this

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Also ETSO isn't strictly offensive. Using the current "it just expands" interpretation it's barely offensive at all, meaning MAS being stronger wouldn't necessarily make it scale above ETSO

I don't remember the exact expression, but MAS should be considered both attack and defense. After all, MAS is Susanoo+Kurama Avatar and Susanoo is both an attack and defense technique. It has been said many times in the series as Uchiha's defense. Also, why shouldn't the strongest technique statement cover the past? After all, Boruto is the sequel to Naruto and Kaguya's name is mentioned many times. I don't think the person who wrote this statement wrote it to prove MAS>Genin jutsu. Because if we only look at Boruto's time, it is certain that there is no jutsu stronger than this jutsu in the first 20 chapters.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Ah, I read it wrong. David, I wrote Etso is not aggressive.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Yeah no ETSO is most certainly an offensive jutsu
"you will all be it's sacrifices"
"it has the power to turn the world to naught"
Everything about it screams offensive

I mean I get that, and the databook lists it as offensive as well. I'm saying it's not offensive in the sense that Kaguya doesn't just explode it in your face. When Kaguya used it, it kind of just did nothing except grow in size.

In comparison, MAS is straight up a giant fast dude-fox that beats you up with a sword.

as for if its in naruto arsenal or his history, I feel like the latter could be assumed since it doesn't say the strongest jutsu in their arsenal even tho many statements in the series will make mention of being the most superior version as shown when they say "strongest long range jutsu" "fastest punch" etc you can see they tend to be specific for individual arsenal statements so assuming in all of history so far wouldn't be far fetched and "strongest" and "strongest in history" are pretty close so they might have left it out for that reason but I can understand taking a conservative stance on this

Yeah it's a similar issue to base Toneris "strongest enemy" statement which gets kidna contradicted by him getting clapped by Naruto even with TCM despite both Nard and Sauce still being terrified of a beyond Kaguya level threat.

Also, why shouldn't the strongest technique statement cover the past? After all, Boruto is the sequel to Naruto and Kaguya's name is mentioned many times. I don't think the person who wrote this statement wrote it to prove MAS>Genin jutsu. Because if we only look at Boruto's time, it is certain that there is no jutsu stronger than this jutsu in the first 20 chapters.

I mean it could just be referring to Narutos and Sasukes arsenal, putting it above stuff like the TBB and whatnot.

I honestly think that if you want to argue ETSO scales to stats there are at least 2 possibly better statements in the 4th databook (unless the versions I've seen are just mistranslated) since they wouldn't have this issue.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I mean it could just be referring to Narutos and Sasukes arsenal, putting it above stuff like the TBB and whatnot.

But if they wanted to say something like that, shouldn't they have said Naruto and Sasuke's strongest technique? This expression mostly covers all the characters' techniques. So Limbo, 8th Gate, Amaterasu, Wood Golem, etc.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I mean I get that, and the databook lists it as offensive as well. I'm saying it's not offensive in the sense that Kaguya doesn't just explode it in your face. When Kaguya used it, it kind of just did nothing except grow in size.

Pain did the same with Shinra Tensei, he gradually destroyed everyone and everything in the village

Yeah it's a similar issue to base Toneris "strongest enemy" statement which gets kidna contradicted by him getting clapped by Naruto even with TCM despite both Nard and Sauce still being terrified of a beyond Kaguya level threat.

Toneri statement is weak as it's not ingrained into the source material, it's slapped on a promotional image most likely not written by Kishimoto but his staff to generate hype and it can also be interpreted as him being the strongest at the time

if you think about it while considering lore and context to the otsutsuki what reason does toneri have to be stronger other than a one off statement?

I mean it could just be referring to Narutos and Sasukes arsenal, putting it above stuff like the TBB and whatnot.

I honestly think that if you want to argue ETSO scales to stats there are at least 2 possibly better statements in the 4th databook (unless the versions I've seen are just mistranslated) since they wouldn't have this issue.

both interpretations are valid but given the story's pattern of making sure to distinguish from individual arsenal so consistently I would like to give the ETSO supporting argument the benefit of the doubt and you mind sharing with us the ones you think are better?

 

[DavidTPPM]

But if they wanted to say something like that, shouldn't they have said Naruto and Sasuke's strongest technique?

No not really? It also includes everyone in Boruto at that point so Momoshiki and Kinshiki as well.

Pain did the same with Shinra Tensei, he gradually destroyed everyone and everything in the village

Pain literally created a giant explosion with a single attack that instantly wiped out the village.
Kaguya created a big black ball that just like, floated in the background.

Toneri statement is weak as it's not ingrained into the source material, it's slapped on a promotional image most likely not written by Kishimoto but his staff to generate hype and it can also be interpreted as him being the strongest at the time

Because the MAS is not…? It's also from a vjump promo as far as I remember.

both interpretations are valid but given the story's pattern of making sure to distinguish from individual arsenal so consistently I would like to give the ETSO supporting argument the benefit of the doubt

The most I could see it scale to is a "possibly" or "at most" rating.

and you mind sharing with us the ones you think are better?

Nuh uh, that's for you to figure out.

Like I said I disagree with the idea so the less arguments there are for it the better for me
Also if I was convinced they would work I'd obviously want to take all the glory of the upgrade for myself

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Nuh uh, that's for you to figure out.

Like I said I disagree with the idea so the less arguments there are for it the better for me
Also if I was convinced they would work I'd obviously want to take all the glory of the upgrade for myself

Should I spoil the fun and reveal one of the arguments I know

 

[DavidTPPM]

Should I spoil the fun and reveal one of the arguments I know

Nooooo let them find it on their own!

 

[BlackeJan]

except for Alt's too

i don't see why it's a problem when there's literally no new information, but hey if someone happens to have some radically new, never before seen argument, that all of us regular Naruto scalers somehow missed then we have a discussion thread for that where it can be discussed and posted.

It’s because we all know for a fact that ETSO is never gonna be talked about again. That was only in Shippuden and its gonna stay in that series which isn’t a thing anymore

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Pain literally created a giant explosion with a single attack that instantly wiped out the village.
Kaguya created a big black ball that just like, floated in the background.

no lol, shinra tensei wiped it out while taking sometime, it didnt just despawn the village at once, we see the village get eradicated with time

Because the MAS is not…? It's also from a vjump promo as far as I remember.

VJUMP directories are more credible because they come with the source material during their monthly publication and a lot of the material you see in it get included in the naruto official website, while the toneri statement has genuinely no reason or mega credible source for us to take it seriously

The most I could see it scale to is a "possibly" or "at most" rating.

Come on dude we know the statement is pretty clear cut, they are trying to represent the pinnacle of power at the time, it's consistent with the statement of kaguya fearing momo and kin, the whole narrative is trying to sell the idea that we have leaped to a new tier (in-verse scaling wise), anything less than likely 4B is downplay

Nuh uh, that's for you to figure out.

Like I said I disagree with the idea so the less arguments there are for it the better for me
Also if I was convinced they would work I'd obviously want to take all the glory of the upgrade for myself

Lol fair enough

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Nooooo let them find it on their own!

But spreading knowledge for all

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Y'all going full youtube powerscaler rn

 

[DavidTPPM]

no lol, shinra tensei wiped it out while taking sometime, it didnt just despawn the village at once, we see the village get eradicated with time

It pretty much did. It took not even 3 entire pages to do so.

Kaguyas ETSO didn't even cover 1% of the dimension in like 2 chapters.

VJUMP directories are more credible because they come with the source material during their monthly publication and a lot of the material you see in it get included in the naruto official website, while the toneri statement has genuinely no reason or mega credible source for us to take it seriously

It's still promo material vs promo material.

Come on dude we know the statement is pretty clear cut, they are trying to represent the pinnacle of power at the time, it's consistent with the statement of kaguya fearing momo and kin, the whole narrative is trying to sell the idea that we have leaped to a new tier (in-verse scaling wise), anything less than likely 4B is downplay

Uhhh not really. Even just the sheer fact that it's exclusive to promo material and it's not actually said in a data/guide book or preferably the Manga itself makes it that much more questionable.

But spreading knowledge for all

Psssshhhhhh

 

[DavidTPPM]

Y'all going full youtube powerscaler rn

I don’t know what that means but I still feel insulted

 

[Ryzen7900X]

anyway, this has passed. should be closed at this point

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

It pretty much did. It took not even 3 entire pages to do so.

So what? we are not debating which is faster, we are talking about both jutsus being an overtime feat, for your logic pain would require to despawn the whole village

It's still promo material vs promo material.

This is disingenuous, one is rooted in accuracy due to the naruto franchise always having databooks to explain their arc, it is also supported by the novels stating how naruto and sasuke's teamwork transcended linear addition and reached insane heights, where as toneri comes from NON descriptive material making a hype text
Most of the hype texts are ignored due to being hyperbolic or wonky in nature 9/10 times

if you believe that then kcm2 naruto should get small country level ap for having 2 shaking the world statements, Jigen and Isshiki should be 4A for being able to "vibrate a dimension through their raw power"
you see it just doesn't work, you cannot equate them as the same

Uhhh not really. Even just the sheer fact that it's exclusive to promo material and it's not actually said in a data/guide book or preferably the Manga itself makes it that much more questionable.

the vjump IS THE databook, boruto manga comes in Vjump volumes, those pages come included with the manga chapter, an extension of it, it is most certainly the closest thing to the source material itself if not a part of the source material

the writers will see and acknowledge VJump Material but the same cannot be said for the toneri statement produced by the studio and the studio has a terrible rep for continuity and scaling

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Psssshhhhhh

 

[karo_senpaii]

In the same page where the MAS was talked about is where Sasuke statement of mastering the strongest doujutsu is. That's why personally I felt they are describing their strength in relation to the Shinobi world. I also felt calling MAS the strongest jutsu in their arsenal is very redundant. Like duh!! The jutsu they already told us beforehand is greater than the sum of both their powers combined is obviously their strongest jutsu.
But they aren't strong points at the end of the day (according to staffs). That's why I said the MAS is just something there are different opinions on.

Momoshiki and siblings on the other hand don't have the slightest chance scalling to etso on their own. Ishikki has like a tiny chance with one statement like that.


LMFAO a lot of you would be suprised that arc pushed ishikki> ETSO not so long ago

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

LMFAO a lot of you would be suprised that arc pushed ishikki> ETSO not so long ago

 

[Godernet]

Boruto's Rasengan outright shredded and destroyed part of Hidari's body, it wasn't "inconsequential damage",

what part of Hidari's body did it destroy?

from the panels, it looks like all he did was carve into his shoulder a bit.

Panel 1

Panel 2

Panel 3

Not a fan of using the whole off-guard argument either, but Hidari straight-up doesn't know Boruto's behind him until he lands the Rasengan either.

he was just able to escape and regenerate. If Boruto had a Rasengan of bigger range, like Uzuhiko, he would have been capable of one-shotting Hidari before he could escape to regen. Boruto didn't need a stronger Jutsu, he just needed something to finish Hidari off in one blow (pause).

Except this isn't what was said,

Boruto doesn't say "I need something with more range to one shot or Rasengan doesn't have the surface area"

Plus we know that Rasengan can expand to completely engulf its target after it lands just like Uzuhiko does, if that normal Rasengan was really all he needed to win.

why would Boruto say "I'm going to draw power to end this in one shot" and "if I don't hold back this jutsu has no limit" to not actually need that power to do so?

Boruto also directly states that Uzuhiko is powerful in a way that makes it seem like it is more powerful than he is.

 

[Godernet]

Yes, Uzuhiko technique does not break Etso.

Can you also answer the MAS>ETSO argument I wrote? I'm talking about MAS being called the strongest jutsu.

the last time I saw someone translate this, it was apparently translated to be Naruto and Sasuke's strongest jutsu, not the strongest jutsu so someone will probably have to look into that.

 

[Godernet]

Also,
the title of the CRT says P1E2, may I see the episode 1 if that exists?

joke title, there is no Episode 1

 

[Godernet]

Yeah Uzuhiko is not a good cap. It would be like saying Galactus caps at planet level because he feeds on planets.

And every bit of context makes it worse, from the "no limit" statement to the part about the planets rotation mainly causing dizziness.

Don't get me wrong I'm against the ETSO scaling to stats arguments but Uzuhiko is just not a good argument against it.

Galactus is kinda irrelevant because he eats planets, is the size of a galaxy, and isn't stated to be gaining the proportional energy behind those planets.

If Galactus got hit with a force that could only be described as the rotational force of a planet and took heavy damage, that would be a pretty nasty anti-feat, tho comics have the advantage of having inconsistencies everywhere since comics' sense of scale is vastly different depending on the author of an individual story.

and just because you eat planets doesn't mean you gain Zettatons of power for each one.

idk what y'all thought you were cooking with the Galactus comparison but it is not at all like the Uzuhiko problem.