Kaguya?

[Mobzzzzz5]

I know this is a banned topic but I am asking because I forgot. How did Kaguya creating several stars get disproven, keeping her from being star level. By the way please dont use the ETSB as a justification because that is falsely judged. Can someone please explain this because it bogels my mind

 

[Gemmysaur]

I don't really remember, but was it ever really explicitly stated that she created something? A star? A dimension? That's really, really important to know because perhaps, her ability is only limited to opening portals to other dimensions like Sasuke's rinnegan can.

 

[Mobzzzzz5]

She created like 6 dimensions 3 of which have confirmed stars, and she opens portals to travel through them the ETSB is used to remodel, or create a Dimension, including the star so I am confused as to how 3 stars don't count as Star level

 

[Bepo4151]

Because we don't know if she created a star or just a light source that looks like a star. If we start upgrading characters like that Gremmy from bleach will be galaxy level because in his void you could see galaxys in the background.

 

[Davidsteel1]

I'm supremely confused, when did she create these dimensions? How long did it take to create these dimensions? Did she even create them? Or does she hop from one dimension to the next? Did we see any display of power even remotely close to star level aside from these simple statements? If these questions are unanswered then I personally don't see y she should suddenly be rated that high.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Can you post scans of her doing or stating so? Else, that's just guesswork at play.

 

[Mobzzzzz5]

Ok so Black Zetsu explained what the ETSB does and that is where dimension creation was confirmed, ch. 689 if the light source looks like a star why wouldn't it be a star unless it's on the inside of the moon like in the last if it's a star out of the planet why wouldn't it be a star that makes no sense there is a dimension with a light source that is a star there is no evidence hinting towards it being anything else it fits all the criteria for a star, and it's not a one time thing it shows in multiple dimensions of hers

 

[Joseph619]

Well Obito definitely did not create Kamui world, and Kamui is a pretty big land too. It's possible Kaguya simply has access to dimensional portals like other naruto characters. Also her ETSB is technically featless

 

[Mobzzzzz5]

It is not an apparent ability of the Rinne-Sharingan otherwise Sasuke would have it so would Madara, and I am not using the ETSB for this I am using her star creation feats

 

[Joseph619]

Well it looks like she did not create any more stars than Obito did with his Kamui. Chibaku Tensei can't create stars, so we have no clue how she could create anything much larger than Earth. Kaguya has never shown creating anything on panel, all this is guesswork

 

[Mobzzzzz5]

I mean why would she able to merge with Territory that is not hers?

 

[Joseph619]

Spacetime manipulation, opening a fabric open which will merge two pocket dimensions. You don't technically need full control over dimension to do that. Kid Buu was going to destroy entire universe with vice shout for example

 

[Mobzzzzz5]

that is not wat i said she merged with the actual planet, who else does that on foreign territory

 

[Davidsteel1]

Wait what? When did Kaguya "merge" with a planet?

 

[Mobzzzzz5]

She merged with the ice dimension's planet when she was fighting Naruto

 

[Omimi]

Kaguya has never shown creating anything on panel, all this is guesswork

same word can be used on many other verse

example: dbs use statement that goku and beerus shockwave will destroy the universe

thats guesswork too cause they didnt destroy the universe on panel

without statement goku or many othets only destroy planet on panel

+ even saint seiya ultimate koga/ god cloth seiya /etc didnt destroy the universe on panel

in your opinion this all should be guesswork too

so dont try to deny statement from manga

 

[Joseph619]

Kaguya has never shown creating anything on panel, all this is guesswork

same word can be used on many other verse
example: dbs only said goku and beerus shockwave will destroy the universe

thats guesswork too cause they didnt destroy the universe on panel

They were in the process of destroying in with shockwaves. Plenty of planets were destroyed on panel, kaioshin realm and earth was shaking. Kaguya got sealed before she could do anything. And we don't even know how it would've worked

 

[Davidsteel1]

@Mob had to reread the chapter, Naruto says it was "as if" she were one with nature, that doesn't mean that she directly merged with the planet. In fact the ability seems more reminiscent of Kabutos "Muki Tensei" I believe it's called. Where he essentially breaths life into and controls inanimate objects (or at least that's how he describes it) there was no instance of her obviously and directly fusing with the planet.

 

[Omimi]

Joseph619 wrote
if i remember correctly they only destroy mex 5 planets so what's the difference here

kaguya were in the process of destroying that dimension and were in the process of creating a new dimension

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

The fact she can merge with the dimension's nature itself as if it were her own and even have a move that is confirmed to be capable of creating a new dimension, it should be implied she created them. Though this really shouldnt matter. Even if she didnt create it, she certainly was still going to destroy it along with the dimension entirely which would still give her the rating. Otherwise she wouldnt be Planet level with ETSB at all because by this logic we don't know if she created the very planet she was fighting on.

Also, with all due respect, the question on whether the stars in her dimension are real ones or just light sources sounds like a false assumption. For one, her dimensions stars wouldnt be something like Toneri's as its clear a real star can never fit inside a moon and it would destroy it if ever attempted. Kaguya's dimensions on the other hand are real dimensions (pocket) with a real planet(s), there would have to be a real star/sun in order to support life. Futhermore, if there really was just a light source to be the "stars" in her dimensions, that would imply there was machinery in her dimensions just like there was machinery inside the Moon for Toneri. Or some kind of device that would produce it, which doesnt make any sense at all since the Narutoverse never has that kind of technology until, like, Boruto honestly. This also implies Kaguya and the Otsutsuki know how to make such an invention when their knowledge of such concepts is rather limited to 0 (ESPECIALLY Kaguya). And if there was a device of some sorts, we would have seen in present during Kaguya's fight or it would have been destroyed when Naruto and Sasuke clashed with her.

Finally, something i've recently realized. What does it matter if its just a light source? Even if its fake stars they are still powerful enough to admit light across the entire dimension itself, making it comparable to real ones no?

I know this is banned btw, just giving some 2 cents.

 

[Davidsteel1]

@Kukui again it was never explicitly shown that she merged with her dimension all I saw was she entered a portal and manipulated the area around Naruto not dissimilar to techniques we've already seen b4 by Kabuto (a much weaker character) the only difference here is that hers was a larger scale. And frankly rating her so high because she was gonna destroy the "dimension" is particularly ridiculous. There have been tons of characters who claim or say they can do something e.g. August from FT says he would wipe out all life on the planet (or country depending on the translation) but he has shown no feats close to high 6B or 5B so he isn't rated as such irrespective of his claims, so y should we allow this for Kaguya whose entire dimension/star creation and destruction feats are incredibly vague and has not shown anything even remotely close to the statements. We don't consider Whitebeard a planet buster nor do we consider Acnologia a country buster because their feats don't match the claims so y is everyone hellbent on doing the exact opposite with Kaguya?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yes but the main difference between Kaguya and those characters is that her attack never had the chance to be unleashed due to massive PIS. If unleashed, it would have definitely killed Naruto&Sasuke whom are literally the only ones who can stop Kaguya. Killing even one of them would give her the win, which is clearly against the story plot. We shouldnt claim a feat is vague just because it never had the chance of being unleashed. If Kaguya had actually done consistent feats far lower than what we rate her ETSB as, or unleashed the technique but it wasnt to the magnitude of the claim, that'd be a different story. But we never had the chance to see it due to reasons so the only way to go is by statements or confirmations which dont contradict anything and Kaguya normally is Low 5-B anyway. Her going up to plain 5-B with her strongest technique isnt farfetched. Also, Kaguya never claimed to be able to destroy it, it was BZ and he has no reason to exaggerate a technique for someone who is literally the god tier of Naruto.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kukui and Mobzzzzz5

It's never stated that Kaguya made the dimensions, it's only stated that this is Kaguya's "special dimension", as in it's most ideal for the use of her abilities.

Ultimately, this topic has been discussed a dozen times and is explicitly against Discussion Rules.

This is your final warning Mobzzzzz5. The staff are getting sick and tired of these threads even after they've been banned.