Kaguya Otsutsuki vs Darth Vader

[A_Sword_Dancer]

I have a question, if speed unequalized is a stomp one way and speed equalized is a stomp the other way, doesn't that mean this is a bad matchup to have since we can't make it into a fair fight?

 

[Aimenaltair]

I have a question, if speed unequalized is a stomp one way and speed equalized is a stomp the other way, doesn't that mean this is a bad matchup to have since we can't make it into a fair fight?

If speed equalized, Vader have precog and Slight glimps into the future, yeah no Vader still stomps.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

I have a question, if speed unequalized is a stomp one way and speed equalized is a stomp the other way, doesn't that mean this is a bad matchup to have since we can't make it into a fair fight?

If speed equalized, Vader have precog and Slight glimps into the future, yeah no Vader still stomps.

Assuming you are correct that just makes it an even worse mismatch.

 

[Volundox]

This is just hax beating AP. Doesn't make it a mismatch.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

A fair match is one where the winner has somethng between a 5/10 - 9/10 chance of winning. If the winner wins every time with 0% ability for the other to fight back via speed blitz or hax or durability then that is clearly not a good match.

This chart is handy.

 

[Sirius_The_EM_Troll]

A character can win 10/10 and still fight back. Yoda would beat Mace Windu 10/10 but he wouldn't outright stomp him.

 

[Aparajita]

Yoda would beat Mace Windu 10/10 but he wouldn't outright stomp him.

Agree to disagree.

Windu saw the outcome of the Clone Wars via Shatterpoint when he had the option to kill Count Dooku. He didn't because he knew Jango would kill him if he killed Dooku.

Instead, Windu Dindu Nuffin' and screwed the galaxy over.

Long story short, Windu was one of, if not the best, user of Shatterpoint, making his precog far superior to Yodas, and Vaaspad made him a dueling better of Sidious (in-canon), something that Yoda could not claim.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

A character can win 10/10 and still fight back. Yoda would beat Mace Windu 10/10 but he wouldn't outright stomp him.

Not really. You can push it as far as 9.99999/10 or whatever if you want to get silly and have it still be a matchup where one character is outclassed and the enemy would need to make many serious mistakes in order to lose, but if someone can not win the fight ever no matter what then yes that is nowhere near being a reasonable matchup ie: a stomp. If there is not even the vaguest tiny hope that the match could play out in a way where both fighters could possibly win then there is something fundamentally wrong with the matchup. Putting a character who can only use fire based attacks against an enemy who happens to be completely immune to fire, or a haxless character against an intangible one, or a speedstomp, or something along those lines would also be matches that shouldn't be made.

Vader 'your powers don't work on me cuz lol no chakra oh also I massively speedblitz and hax you to death before you can do anything' fits the bill in multiple ways. His victory conditions don't leave any room for error, there's no interaction there, therefor if his speedblitz and hax strategy works then it works 100% of the time in the matchup.

 

[Sirius_The_EM_Troll]

Mace Windu was amped by Vaapad during the fight with Sidious, and has never defeated Yoda 1v1. Heck, before then Windu couldn't even percieve Palpatine before Vaapad and Shatterpoint kicked in.


Normally, Yoda > Mace by a fairly comfortable margin.

 

[Aparajita]

Normally, Yoda > Mace by a fairly comfortable margin.

In a duel with Sabers? No.

Mace was winning against Count Dooku until Dooku was forced to call in Magna Guards so he could escape.

Yoda never defeated Dooku in a duel, despite getting the upper hand in AotC.

Qui Gon Jinn said to be "As Wise as Master Yoda, and as powerful as Master Windu:"

Mace defeats Mother Talzia peer/rival of Sidious in Revenge of the Sith. She was powerful enough that the Emperor banned travel to Dathomir until he killed Talzin. He managed to stalemate her in the panel i posted, as General Grevious kills her.

 

[Coleworld12]

Too long to read Kaguya via better haxxes

 

[Sirius_The_EM_Troll]

Too long to read Kaguya via better haxxes

How does Kaguya have better hax?

 

[Volundox]

This has had enough input and is getting somewhat derailed. Can this be added as a victory 8:6 or not?

 

[Sirius_The_EM_Troll]

Yes, IMO.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Don't really think you can add this just yet, Sirius. The VS Thread Rules state that there needs to at least be a 3 vote difference, last i checked. So a difference of 2 votes might not even count to add.

Someone else needs to vote for Vader in order to probably get this added, maybe.

 

[Sirius_The_EM_Troll]

Gotcha

 

[Coleworld12]

Vader has energy manipulation at sub atomic lvls and matter manipulation she has all of that + every element + combination of every element which bypasses dura to even smaller than that extent :https://plus.google.com/+KryptonianDominion/posts/15V2ZPLucyQ

+ Immense BFR ,infinite illusion,soul absorbing,gravity techs and many more stuff

He's haxxed just not as haxxed

 

[Sirius_The_EM_Troll]

Quality hax >>> Quantity hax. Most of her hax is irrelevant to this battle anyway.

 

[LTB2000]

Should we submit this thread since Vader has 3 more votes than kaguya?

 

[Sirius_The_EM_Troll]

I think so

 

[PostmodernD]

I am voting for Vader based off the arguments above.

 

[BruceTheBatman]

Vader, hax and speed > dura and ap.

 

[Drellix]

I find the wanking of Kaguya disturbing.

Vader stomps her so bad it's not even funny.

 

[LTB2000]

We should close this since it's already submitted.

 

[BruceTheBatman]

We should close this since it's already submitted.

Agreed

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Alright.