Jujutsu Kaisen - Scale

[LIFE_OF_KING]

And as has been discussed many times, cursed energy = attack potency. A domain expansion is literally cursed energy

Every character can use cursed energy to increase physical power

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I'm leaving now. I'll be back in a few hours

 

[RageComment]

Domain Expansion doesn't scale to their physical blows.

 

[Slacjow]

And this makes them scale to the Creation of Domains how exactly?
We don't just automatically give characters ratings based on creation without any supporting feats, especially if that creation feat is heavily above their average feats.
Just using that same energy for other techniques doesn't count, there are plenty of characters with different stats for different techniques.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Domain Expansion doesn't scale to their physical blows.

I think I have time to answer this

A Domain Expansion use much Cursed Energy in its creation , Cursed energy is basically the same as normal energy, the more, the stronger the device (In this case, Jujutsu). The cursed enegy is equal a attack potency in Jujutsuverse, is literally the basis power of the verse. Itadori describes that a user can use the cursed anergy to physically attack. An example of this is Yuta, someone who is considered physically weak, is able to physically damage Itadori with the cursed energy flowing in his body

I don't even know why you are discussing this. It's something that has been addressed since the very first discussions

 

[RageComment]

I think I have time to answer this

A Domain Expansion use much Cursed Energy in its creation , Cursed energy is basically the same as normal energy, the more, the stronger the device (In this case, Jujutsu). The cursed enegy is equal a attack potency in Jujutsuverse, is literally the basis power of the verse. Itadori describes that a user can use the cursed anergy to physically attack. An example of this is Yuta, someone who is considered physically weak, is able to physically damage Itadori with the cursed energy flowing in his body

I don't even know why you are discussing this. It's something that has been addressed since the very first discussions

We know what domain expansion are and what cursed energy is, you are just interpreting things horribly wrong.
These characters can't just amp their physical strikes with the same energy equivalent as their domains.
That's not how any of these work.

Certain characters have techniques, some characters have domains, some characters can amplify physical strikes.
And among these different characters have different levels of strength or specialization.

Domains amplify a character's techniques.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I can’t believe cursed energy reinforcement is being debated to scale to domains. @LIFE_OF_KING you do realise most characters can only use their domains once a day. If they put the same energy into their attacks they’d only be able to throw one punch a day.

 

[Arkenis]

Think I said this before, we can't scale these characters to what they create since it takes an absurd amount of ce to actually create it versus them using simple attacks. If Jogo and Hanami could output mountain lvl ap with regular attacks then I'd have no problem with it but they just don't show that. As I said instead of scaling Jogo of Hanami to this, it would be much better to scale the people who can actually one shot or outright kill them to the calc. Considering that Jogo's uzumaki meteor is city lvl idk why his regular attacks would scale above it.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

We know what domain expansion are and what cursed energy is, you are just interpreting things horribly wrong.

Basically you said "It's wrong because yes". The cursed energy is physical power, this is made clear several times

Megumi also makes it explicit that cursed energy is power

That's not how any of these work.

Via? I literally showed that the domains are made of cursed energy

Certain characters have techniques, some characters have domains, some characters can amplify physical strikes.

I never said that all characters can amplify physical power, I'm saying that most scale. Nanami is superior to "Dagon Base Form", who created an island (7-A). Dagon Base Form has no physical feats, only with cursed energy, so he cannot amplify physical with cursed energy without feats. But Nanami? He has several physical attack feats

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I can’t believe cursed energy reinforcement is being debated to scale to domains. @LIFE_OF_KING you do realise most characters can only use their domains once a day. If they put the same energy into their attacks they’d only be able to throw one punch a day.

Even after creating a domain the creator can fight with cursed energy. The problem with creating more than one is that well, your energy would be at 0

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I'm leaving now. I'll be back in a few hours

Okay, I don't have any more time. Bye

 

[Arkenis]

@LIFE_OF_KING nobody is saying ce isn't used in power within the verse, multiple people have pointed out that regular attacks are not equal to domains, hell even Geto explains how Domains and Uzumaki are the most supreme art jujutsu sorcerers can use and you're literally trying to scale their regular attacks to it. Damnit he left.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Even after creating a domain the creator can fight with cursed energy. The problem with creating more than one is that well, your energy would be at 0

But according to you the same 7A energy going into a domain is being used in normal offence and defence so how can they attack and defend so many times in one fight when domains are once a day?

 

[Slacjow]

How many people here think that scaling Domain Creation to their AP makes sense? Just want to clarify.

 

[Slacjow]

Also, I propose to remove Speed and Ability Revision from this thread and create different ones for those.
It's will be almost impossible for new users to come and evaluate stuff with everything piled up in one thread.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I second that.

 

[Gitagon]

Is it really necessary to overscale all these characters. This reminds me of the Naruto Otsutsuki Dimensions arguments that tried to scale them to Galaxy level or even Universe level just because they have stars in their domains.

In most cases with domains or personal dimensions, it does not equal a characters AP in the least bit.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

I can’t believe cursed energy reinforcement is being debated to scale to domains. @LIFE_OF_KING you do realise most characters can only use their domains once a day. If they put the same energy into their attacks they’d only be able to throw one punch a day.

I agree
Domain expansion is literally their absolute peak
I’d be fine with for example
Low 7-B possibly 7-A with domain expansion or something
But saying Hanami for example scales directly to the domain despite it being a specific technique is imo incorrect
I don’t think even Gojo or Sukuna would scale to their domains tbh.

Its genuinely no better than Saying every attack Mai does is High 7-C

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I agree
Domain expansion is literally their absolute peak
I’d be fine with for example
Low 7-B possibly 7-A with domain expansion or something
But saying Hanami for example scales directly to the domain despite it being a specific technique is imo incorrect

It would be genuinely no better than Saying every attack Mai does is High 7-C

It’s on the same level as saying all of part 1 Kakashi’s attacks hit as hard as his Raikiri or all of Netero’s attacks are equal to Zero Hand.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Also, I propose to remove Speed and Ability Revision from this thread and create different ones for those.
It's will be almost impossible for new users to come and evaluate stuff with everything piled up in one thread.

Yes please
Let’s just keep this AP based

 

[Arkenis]

I think majority of us disagree with the ap scaling being proposed? So probably will just need to wait for more mods to see what they think.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Is it really necessary to overscale all these characters. This reminds me of the Naruto Otsutsuki Dimensions arguments that tried to scale them to Galaxy level or even Universe level just because they have stars in their domains.

In most cases with domains or personal dimensions, it does not equal a characters AP in the least bit.

I consider it a non applicable AP really
Kind of like freezing feats

Just because a ice user could drain a couple petatons of tnt energy equivalent from the earths oceans under a second doesn’t mean that them launching a country sized piece of this ice is the same AP or even dropping the entire thing 100m is the same as the freezing process in energy.

Same Idea, that’s what I mean by a non applicable AP for combat

 

[Arkenis]

wouldn't that be more environmental destruction in a way?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Im back. Can someone summarize what I missed?

 

[Arkenis]

We disagree on Jogo scaling to his domain. Essentially can't scale his physicals to his domain.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

@LIFE_OF_KING nobody is saying ce isn't used in power within the verse, multiple people have pointed out that regular attacks are not equal to domains, hell even Geto explains how Domains and Uzumaki are the most supreme art jujutsu sorcerers can use and you're literally trying to scale their regular attacks to it. Damnit he left.

Bro, the domain is a supreme ability via to its many skills. The "Maximum Attack" is another supreme attack via the great destruction.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

We disagree on Jogo scaling to his domain. Essentially can't scale his physicals to his domain.

As I said, and I will repeat, not everyone scale for the physical

 

[Arkenis]

Yet you are trying to scale it to their regular attacks?

 

[Arkenis]

So who scales to it cause Jogo shouldn't

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I will list my reasons why the domain scale. Then you explain why not

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

What is a Domain Expansion
Dominion expansion is created from the cursed energy, the creator's power, basically. The expansion always comes from the user's characteristic (Jogo is "a vulcan", his domain is a vulcan). When a user uses this technique his cursed energy decreases a lot, but it is still enough to fight (Mahito is a good example of this. He is able to use Black Flash after a domain expansion). The domain also grants several extra abilities

• 

Why the Domain Expansion scale to AP

• Cursed energy does not change over time
  • A person's cursed energy will not simply increase to create a dominion, that doesn't even make sense. Cursed energy is a concept that flows in your body and it can be increased and decreased in attacks, but your body itself will still have the same cursed energy. It can only be increased in itself with more experience. Basically, the domain expansion creator will be able to use the cursed energy he uses to create the expansion to attack normally (Only with less cursed energy, since a normal attack doesn't have as many abilities)
• When a domain user dies, his domain is completely destroyed
  • This also reinforces the previous point. When the domain creator dies, the space he created is destroyed. This is thanks to the fact that when you die, your cursed energy goes with you.
  • 
• What is difficult to create in the domain is not the material, it is the abilitys
  • The difficulty of creating a domain is in the abilities of domain. An example is Mahito, he creates his dimension and used extreme cursed energy, but the domain expansion is hollow, there is nothing inside his dimension, and yet the spending of cursed energy is similar to other domains expansions
  • 
    

Cursed energy and physically

• Not all users of cursed energy scale to the physical.
  • An example of this is Dagon in his base form. He CLARELY has no ability to control his cursed energy. So he is not able to control the cursed energy for his punches. But if a person is stronger than Dagon and knows how to control the cursed energy this person can concentrate it in his blows. Many sorcerers are able to do this
  • 
    

 

[Duedate8898]

And this makes them scale to the Creation of Domains how exactly?
We don't just automatically give characters ratings based on creation without any supporting feats, especially if that creation feat is heavily above their average feats.
Just using that same energy for other techniques doesn't count, there are plenty of characters with different stats for different techniques.

Actually, we do.

It is common practice on this very wiki to scale ones physical stats to things they create. Look at Dark Souls that has Star Level stats just for maintaining a sun with no other feats on that level.

And what's more, as pretty much discussed in the latest creation thread and the one before it, energy in a unified system is considered good enough to scale everything to the same potency. That's without even mentioning how Domain Expansion isn't even considered the strongest attack available to characters, so scaling other attacks to their domain expansion would be considered fair game as well.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Funny say "Above average" since anyone who scales above Dagon's feat is at least Large Mountain via the Jogo calculation

 

[RageComment]

An example. Imagine a mana system where someone has 1,000 MP
He can amplify his attack or defense by expending 1-10 MP per strike or block.
Alternatively he can use a supermove that costs a massive 800 MP.
The supermove is so much that he can't do it more than once per day.
The supermove being 800 MP means it is considerably higher than his normal output for his regular attacks which cap at 10 MP.

This is how Cursed Energy and Domains have read.
A Domain is an incredibly powerful, draining, and skilled power that not just anyone can do.
Regular strikes and techniques, EVEN THOSE AMPED WITH CURSED ENERGY do not even compare to a Domain.

Though, within a domain the user's abilities are increased as well.

 

[Arkenis]

What is a Domain Expansion
Dominion expansion is created from the cursed energy, the creator's power, basically. The expansion always comes from the user's characteristic (Jogo is "a vulcan", his domain is a vulcan). When a user uses this technique his cursed energy decreases a lot, but it is still enough to fight (Mahito is a good example of this. He is able to use Black Flash after a domain expansion). The domain also grants several extra abilities

• 

Why the Domain Expansion scale to AP

• Cursed energy does not change over time
  • A person's cursed energy will not simply increase to create a dominion, that doesn't even make sense. Cursed energy is a concept that flows in your body and it can be increased and decreased in attacks, but your body itself will still have the same cursed energy. It can only be increased in itself with more experience. Basically, the domain expansion creator will be able to use the cursed energy he uses to create the expansion to attack normally (Only with less cursed energy, since a normal attack doesn't have as many abilities)
• When a domain user dies, his domain is completely destroyed
  • This also reinforces the previous point. When the domain creator dies, the space he created is destroyed. This is thanks to the fact that when you die, your cursed energy goes with you.
  • 
• What is difficult to create in the domain is not the material, it is the abilitys
  • The difficulty of creating a domain is in the abilities of domain. An example is Mahito, he creates his dimension and used extreme cursed energy, but the domain expansion is hollow, there is nothing inside his dimension, and yet the spending of cursed energy is similar to other domains expansions
  • 
    

Cursed energy and physically

• Not all users of cursed energy scale to the physical.
  • An example of this is Dagon in his base form. He CLARELY has no ability to control his cursed energy. So he is not able to control the cursed energy for his punches. But if a person is stronger than Dagon and knows how to control the cursed energy this person can concentrate it in his blows. Many sorcerers are able to do this
  • 
    

Ok the main point is that very simply Jogo can create and use curse energy to make his domains and in his regular attacks, that's fine but the problem is, like so many other verses the amount of energy usually depends on the strength of the attack so if you can't prove that Jogo and Dagon use the same amount or even relative to the domains output then there is no reason to say domain scales to ap. I do think that anyone who can kill Jogo or Dagon they would scale.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Do you really think Dagon will create a domain and will attack weaker than the energy of the dominion? And you have ignored almost all of my arguments

 

[Slacjow]

It is common practice on this very wiki to scale ones physical stats to things they create. Look at Dark Souls that has Star Level stats just for maintaining a sun with no other feats on that level.

Which is wrong, DS gets this treatment because it was supported by a bunch of staff members, you know how people here complain that staff wank verses they like? This is one of those cases.

And what's more, as pretty much discussed in the latest creation thread and the one before it, energy in a unified system is considered good enough to scale everything to the same potency. That's without even mentioning how Domain Expansion isn't even considered the strongest attack available to characters, so scaling other attacks to their domain expansion would be considered fair game as well.

None of this makes sense, they don't have other feats to support this level of strength.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Which is wrong, DS gets this treatment because it was supported by a bunch of staff members, you know how people here complain that staff wank verses they like? This is one of those cases.

To say that is extremely idiotic

 

[Slacjow]

To say that is extremely idiotic

Why, because you don't like it?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

You are saying this without evidence. You don't even know the verse (DS)