Jujutsu Kaisen - Scale

[Slacjow]

You are saying this without evidence. You don't even know the verse

Do you seriously believe I would shittalk on DS profiles without knowing the verse? I am not that type of people, sorry to disappoint you, I seriously argue only on verses I know, it so happens that I invested more than 1000 hours into Dark Souls, so, yeah.

 

[Arkenis]

Do you really think Dagon will create a domain and will attack weaker than the energy of the dominion? And you have ignored almost all of my arguments

I think the domain serves as more than just power for them so it's irrelevant if they're using less power within the domain or else they'd attack with that amount of energy. For now I'm just going to say for now until more people talk on it besides us I'll stay neutral on this in case better arguments are presented on either side.

 

[Duedate8898]

Which is wrong, DS gets this treatment because it was supported by a bunch of staff members, you know how people here complain that staff wank verses they like? This is one of those cases.

None of this makes sense, they don't have other feats to support this level of strength.

And I'm saying that site standards, as they are now, don't require any such feats. I personally don't agree with the pratice either, but Life Of King has provided all the evidence that's really needed for this creation feat to qualify as AP for the verse.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

It is better to ask other staff members for their opinion

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

And I'm saying that site standards, as they are now, don't require any such feats. I personally don't agree with the pratice either, but Life Of King has provided all the evidence that's really needed for this creation feat to qualify as AP for the verse.

So wait you mean to tell me while in a domain that can only be cast once a day, these characters are striking with the power of that domain every time they attack within it?

 

[Duedate8898]

Go ahead.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

So wait you mean to tell me while in a domain that can only be cast once a day, these characters are striking with the power of that domain every time they attack within it?

What is a Domain Expansion
Dominion expansion is created from the cursed energy, the creator's power, basically. The expansion always comes from the user's characteristic (Jogo is "a vulcan", his domain is a vulcan). When a user uses this technique his cursed energy decreases a lot, but it is still enough to fight (Mahito is a good example of this. He is able to use Black Flash after a domain expansion). The domain also grants several extra abilities

• 

Why the Domain Expansion scale to AP

• Cursed energy does not change over time
  • A person's cursed energy will not simply increase to create a dominion, that doesn't even make sense. Cursed energy is a concept that flows in your body and it can be increased and decreased in attacks, but your body itself will still have the same cursed energy. It can only be increased in itself with more experience. Basically, the domain expansion creator will be able to use the cursed energy he uses to create the expansion to attack normally (Only with less cursed energy, since a normal attack doesn't have as many abilities)
• When a domain user dies, his domain is completely destroyed
  • This also reinforces the previous point. When the domain creator dies, the space he created is destroyed. This is thanks to the fact that when you die, your cursed energy goes with you.
  • 
• What is difficult to create in the domain is not the material, it is the abilitys
  • The difficulty of creating a domain is in the abilities of domain. An example is Mahito, he creates his dimension and used extreme cursed energy, but the domain expansion is hollow, there is nothing inside his dimension, and yet the spending of cursed energy is similar to other domains expansions
  • 
    

Cursed energy and physically

• Not all users of cursed energy scale to the physical.
  • An example of this is Dagon in his base form. He CLARELY has no ability to control his cursed energy. So he is not able to control the cursed energy for his punches. But if a person is stronger than Dagon and knows how to control the cursed energy this person can concentrate it in his blows. Many sorcerers are able to do this
  • 
    

Everyone ignores the arguments

 

[Duedate8898]

So wait you mean to tell me while in a domain that can only be cast once a day, these characters are striking with the power of that domain every time they attack within it?

As I said, as our standards towards the issue go, they would classify for it. I don't agree with that assessment, but the verse meets the criteria for it as it stands.

 

[Slacjow]

What is a Domain Expansion
Dominion expansion is created from the cursed energy, the creator's power, basically. The expansion always comes from the user's characteristic (Jogo is "a vulcan", his domain is a vulcan). When a user uses this technique his cursed energy decreases a lot, but it is still enough to fight (Mahito is a good example of this. He is able to use Black Flash after a domain expansion). The domain also grants several extra abilities

• 

Why the Domain Expansion scale to AP

• Cursed energy does not change over time
  • A person's cursed energy will not simply increase to create a dominion, that doesn't even make sense. Cursed energy is a concept that flows in your body and it can be increased and decreased in attacks, but your body itself will still have the same cursed energy. It can only be increased in itself with more experience. Basically, the domain expansion creator will be able to use the cursed energy he uses to create the expansion to attack normally (Only with less cursed energy, since a normal attack doesn't have as many abilities)

Okay, then explain to me how their punches which are equal to their Domain Expansion which is an Ultimate Technique that can only be used once a day and isn't even offensive don't turn them into paste? Explain how they casually tank those punches and send those Domain level punches non stop.

• When a domain user dies, his domain is completely destroyed
  • This also reinforces the previous point. When the domain creator dies, the space he created is destroyed. This is thanks to the fact that when you die, your cursed energy goes with you.
  • 

Doesn't support the idea of scaling domains to regular attacks.

• What is difficult to create in the domain is not the material, it is the abilitys
  • The difficulty of creating a domain is in the abilities of domain. An example is Mahito, he creates his dimension and used extreme cursed energy, but the domain expansion is hollow, there is nothing inside his dimension, and yet the spending of cursed energy is similar to other domains expansions
  • 
    

Doesn't support your point either, I don't see any correlation.

Cursed energy and physically

• Not all users of cursed energy scale to the physical.
  • An example of this is Dagon in his base form. He CLARELY has no ability to control his cursed energy. So he is not able to control the cursed energy for his punches. But if a person is stronger than Dagon and knows how to control the cursed energy this person can concentrate it in his blows. Many sorcerers are able to do this
  • 
    

And how does this support your idea of scaling Domains to regular attacks?
Seriously, this is it? I thought you brought actual evidence, yet I don't see anything that supports your opinion.

but Life Of King has provided all the evidence that's really needed for this creation feat to qualify as AP for the verse.

Did you even read that "evidence"?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Everyone ignores the arguments

Most of your points don’t prove anything.

Using cursed techniques requires cursed energy. If they’re attacking with the same amount of energy needed for the domain they wouldn’t even be able to since the domain on its own eats up a ton of energy.

Curse users can focus their energy in their fists to attack but again trying to say they focus the same amount needed for a domain into their normal attacks is nonsense as that would mean they can only throw a single punch in a fight.

Even if your argument is: they can’t use it for physical blows. Then they have to be able to use it in normal cursed techniques for it to be considered for AP but as I said previously this makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

As I said, as our standards towards the issue go, they would classify for it. I don't agree with that assessment, but the verse meets the criteria for it as it stands.

So our standards trump the rules of the verse?

 

[Duedate8898]

Yes, and it's good enough for the verse to scale. Just check our creation page for it.

 

[Duedate8898]

So our standards trump the rules of the verse?

Yeah actually.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Yeah actually.

Since when has headcanon of fans overruled the series? This wiki is need of a serious overhaul if this is genuinely the case

 

[Slacjow]

As I said, as our standards towards the issue go, they would classify for it. I don't agree with that assessment, but the verse meets the criteria for it as it stands.

Kaguya created Dimensions and can create one with ETSB, she has a separate Tier for it that doesn't scale to her other abilities.
Bleach God Tiers have Universal with Allmighty that doesn't scale to their other abilities.
Madara has High 6-A with Susanoo while being 7-A physically, so is Hashirama and a lot of characters on the wiki.
Pain has different Tiers for Charged Shinra Tensei and Chibaku Tensei, both don't scale to his other abilities.
Orochimaru created a "Universe", no one scales him to that for some reasons.
Why? Because they don't have feats to support that kind of scaling or it just doesn't make sense in general.
Most of these examples are from Naruto, its first that comes to mind because I know it the best.
If these characters and verses can make it work then JJK can.

Edit: Oh, forgot one, Obito created Kamui Dimension, go ahead and scale him to it.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Okay, then explain to me how their punches which are equal to their Domain Expansion which is an Ultimate Technique that can only be used once a day and isn't even offensive don't turn them into paste?

I don't know why you replied to this topic since it is just an explanation of the ability, but ok

Doesn't support the idea of scaling domains to regular attacks.

Arguments

Doesn't support your point either, I don't see any correlation.

Arguments. I have shown that dominion is only difficult to create thanks to the abilities it grants, and not because of the material it creates

And how does this support your idea of scaling Domains to regular attacks?

I said that no matter what is done, the user's cursed energy does not change. The cursed energy does not increase after creating the domain, it has the same amount of energy, but it is used in different ways

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I answered wrong... One moment

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I said that no matter what is done, the user's cursed energy does not change. The cursed energy does not increase after creating the domain, it has the same amount of energy, but it is used in different ways

The aforementioned MP argument perfectly counters this.
If you need other examples:
Netero’s Zero Hand doesn’t scale to his normal attacks even though his Nen doesn’t magically increase for it.

Gon’s Jajanken doesn’t scale to his normal attacks even though it’s just pulling from the same Nen amount he always uses.

Part 1 Kakashi doesn’t scale to his Raikiri since it is half his overall Chakra in one blow and yet is pulling from the same amount of chakra as always

I could list more verses but this is more than enough to get the point across

 

[RageComment]

Another more real world example would be a star.
The Total Energy of a Star (Mass Energy) is different from its GBE which is different from the energy it emits per second.

Similarly, the total amount of energy a Sorcerer has and how much energy they emit when using techniques and attacks can vary.
Normal attacks are much much much weaker than when they put out a Domain.

For that reason, they shouldn't scale.

I personally am fine if they have a separate key for Domains though.
Actually I think they should have a separate key for their Domain Expansion.
It is a dramatic amp and they get different abilities using it.
It's kinda like Naruto has Sage Mode, Goku has Super Saiyan, Luffy has Gears.
Domain Expansion is beyond a "Far Higher" it's a whole other level.

 

[Duedate8898]

Kaguya created Dimensions and can create one with ETSB, she has a separate Tier for it that doesn't scale to her other abilities.
Bleach God Tiers have Universal with Allmighty that doesn't scale to their other abilities.
Madara has High 6-A with Susanoo while being 7-A physically, so is Hashirama and a lot of characters on the wiki.
Pain has different Tiers for Charged Shinra Tensei and Chibaku Tensei, both don't scale to his other abilities.
Orochimaru created a "Universe", no one scales him to that for some reasons.
Why? Because they don't have feats to support that kind of scaling or it just doesn't make sense in general.
Most of these examples are from Naruto, its first that comes to mind because I know it the best.
If these characters and verses can make it work then JJK can.

Kaguya, look at the note on her page, it doesn't scale because its considered out of her normal capabilities.
Bleach, All-Mighty itself is treated as Hax not AP so that's why there's a clear separation there.
Madara, the Susanoo isn't treated as a creation feat. Nor is most other feats from Naruto.
Orochimaru's universe was dismissed as an outlier because its wholly above his verse in general.
None of those instances apply here.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Okay, then explain to me how their punches which are equal to their Domain Expansion which is an Ultimate Technique that can only be used once a day and isn't even offensive don't turn them into paste? Explain how they casually tank those punches and send those Domain level punches non stop.

I explained that the vast amount of energy of the domain is immense via to the ability that the domain grants. Mahito for example, he uses extreme cursed energy to create a dimension that is hollow, even considering Mahito a City Block Level this hollow dimension would not expend any cursed energy if the dimension expended energy via matter.

Doesn't support the idea of scaling domains to regular attacks.

Stabilization Feats

This is a type of feat where a character's existence, energy, presence, or any given factor from them sustains a structure on any given scale. And through their sustenance, their statistics are subsequently tiered to being at the level of power that is relative to the given scale of the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Doesn't support your point either, I don't see any correlation.

Arguments

And how does this support your idea of scaling Domains to regular attacks?

This is to explain about the physical attacks. It is very simple to understand

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Now it's right

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I feel that this will never end

But well, I'm leaving now. If the guy answers me it will be only later that I will answer

 

[GiornoGiovannaF]

the mental gymnastic some of you are doing to get the verse to tier 7 is astonishing

 

[GiornoGiovannaF]

better to ask some staff to comment here because at this rate this will never be finished

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I explained that the vast amount of energy of the domain is immense via to the ability that the domain grants. Mahito for example, he uses extreme cursed energy to create a dimension that is hollow, even considering Mahito a City Block Level this hollow dimension would not expend any cursed energy if the dimension expended energy via matter.

Stabilization Feats

This is a type of feat where a character's existence, energy, presence, or any given factor from them sustains a structure on any given scale. And through their sustenance, their statistics are subsequently tiered to being at the level of power that is relative to the given scale of the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

So Gojo is either universal or solar system level. Great

 

[Ped2018]

the mental gymnastic some of you are doing to get the verse to tier 7 is astonishing

the verse is already tier 7 though

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Actually, looking back at it, this appears to be the actual size of the Domain Expanison.

 

[Ped2018]

Actually, looking back at it, this appears to be the actual size of the Domain Expanison.

actually no because DE is a different dimension

 

[Slacjow]

Kaguya, look at the note on her page, it doesn't scale because its considered out of her normal capabilities.

Yeah, and if we go by this thread she will scale to her ETSB. Did you pay attention to the thread at all?

Bleach, All-Mighty itself is treated as Hax not AP so that's why there's a clear separation there.

And creation of Domain is also hax.

Madara, the Susanoo isn't treated as a creation feat. Nor is most other feats from Naruto.

Irrelevant, the argument here is that they use the same energy for their domain meaning their punches scale.
Madara uses the same chakra for Susanoo, so he scales.

Orochimaru's universe was dismissed as an outlier because its wholly above his verse in general.

He still has the ability, Sasuke has an ability for countering it aswell on his profile.

None of those instances apply here.

They apply you just happen to ignore it for some reasons, or try to find reasons to dismiss these.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Sure, these characters can create Domain Expansions using an inordinate amount of Cursed Energy, but they do not use that amount of Cursed Energy consistently. If they were stated to apply the same amount of Cursed Energy into their normal attacks as they do during the creation of a Domain Expansion, then yeah. Along with that, characters who would scale to Jogo through Hanami like Yuji are impressed by Yuta performing a Tier 8 feat, and the verse as a whole does not have enough high-tier Tier 7 feats to constitute everybody scaling to High 7-A and definitely not Tier 6.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Sure, these characters can create Domain Expansions using an inordinate amount of Cursed Energy, but they do not use that amount of Cursed Energy consistently. If they were stated to apply the same amount of Cursed Energy into their normal attacks as they do during the creation of a Domain Expansion, then yeah. Along with that, characters who would scale to Jogo through Hanami like Yuji are impressed by Yuta performing a Tier 8 feat, and the verse as a whole does not have enough high-tier Tier 7 feats to constitute everybody scaling to High 7-A and definitely not Tier 6.

I agree completely with that sentiment
Most of the tier 7 feats that do exist are pretty much only with things like domains and Jogo’s maximum technique in the first place.
And domain so far is feeling like mental gymnastics to scale anyone to

However what Tier 8 feat impressed Yuji?
Yuta punching the ground, because to me that looked like a tier 9 feat. Nanami’s Magnitude 2 earthquake was probably stronger than that.

 

[Duedate8898]

Yeah, and if we go by this thread she will scale to her ETSB. Did you pay attention to the thread at all?

No she wouldn't because as its pointed out on her own profile, she can't do that on her own. She requires other external sources for her ETSB to work.

And creation of Domain is also hax.

Not really, hax would imply it negates durability in some form or shape but it doesn't. All that it does is allow someone to take their own cursed energy and convert it into a pocket dimension.

Irrelevant, the argument here is that they use the same energy for their domain meaning their punches scale.
Madara uses the same chakra for Susanoo, so he scales.

And the difference in that is actually that the Susanoo is a physical construct that performs these feats. Not only is it treated in verse as more durable and stronger than himself, which . Not to mention our creation standards don't apply to Susanoo.

He still has the ability, Sasuke has an ability for countering it aswell on his profile.

Once again, it's treated as an outlier. Unless you want to argue that the Domain Expansion is an outlier, which you're not you're just saying that it doesn't scale to the rest of their stats, then him having the ability is pretty much irrelevant.

They apply you just happen to ignore it for some reasons, or try to find reasons to dismiss these.

Go check out our creation page and our pocket reality page, as they currently stand, Jujutsu Kaisen meets the standard for those to be treated as AP feats.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

ooo boy, 4-a satoru.

 

[Slacjow]

No she wouldn't because as its pointed out on her own profile, she can't do that on her own. She requires other external sources for her ETSB to work.

At that point she already absorbed chakra from people so the scaling could be performed. Literally the only reason people don't scale Kaguya to her ETSB is because of outlierish scaling and the lack of feats to support, I know because I saw those threads. That same case can be used here.

Not really, hax would imply it negates durability in some form or shape but it doesn't. All that it does is allow someone to take their own cursed energy and convert it into a pocket dimension.

No, hax can also be referring to a creation technique. Domain Expansion is a hax in a sense that its a creation that doesn't scale to regular attacks, it's like magic.

And the difference in that is actually that the Susanoo is a physical construct that performs these feats. Not only is it treated in verse as more durable and stronger than himself, which . Not to mention our creation standards don't apply to Susanoo.

Oh wait, so Domain Expansion a physical construct? And isn't treated as something special that you can do only like once a day? Because as far as I remember it is.

Once again, it's treated as an outlier. Unless you want to argue that the Domain Expansion is an outlier, which you're not you're just saying that it doesn't scale to the rest of their stats, then him having the ability is pretty much irrelevant.

So High 7-A feat base solely on creation isn't an outlier? When the second best destruction feat in the verse is 7-C (And its from the strongest character in the verse)? Mind you, low 7-B feat is wrong, it assumes the speed of an actual meteor summoned from space.

I vehemently disagree with scaling Domains to characters regular techniques, this doesn't make sense, it inflates scaling and puts a lot of characters at that tier.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

This whole thread is a joke and why power scalers are so memed. The wiki's standards overrule canon just because. Mai, a Grade 3 sorcerer could be tier 7 because headcanon calculations. Gojo is 4A because headcanon calculations.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

When the second best destruction feat in the verse is 7-C? Mind you, low 7-B feat is wrong, it assumes the speed of an actual meteor summoned from space.

I still don’t know why Low 7-B isn’t a possibly rating
We have no way to prove whether Jogo did or didn’t set the meteor on fire definitely so we can just leave it as possibly
Problem solved imo either that or nerf it with GPE and make it into the 8-A up to Low 7-C range

But guys remember even in that case it’s still a maximum technique which the characters likely can’t directly scale to except Geto, Yuta, Gojo and Sukuna

btw what’s the best destruction feat since the only ones I can think of was Hanami’s calc which isn’t evaluated and Sukuna’s Shibuya blast which also didn’t get fully evaluated I think

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

ooo boy, 4-a satoru.

Inb4 someone says this makes Exponent multipliers for black flash valid now even if it makes them large Star or whatever

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I still don’t know why Low 7-B isn’t a possibly rating
We have no way to prove whether Jogo did or didn’t set the meteor on fire definitely so we can just leave it as possibly
Problem solved imo either that or nerf it with GPE and make it into the 8-A up to Low 7-C range

btw what’s the best destruction feat since the only ones I can think of was Hanami’s calc which isn’t evaluated and Sukuna’s Shibuya blast which also didn’t get fully evaluated I think

The next best destruction feat is either Gojo's 7C (which was done with an erasure attack so I'm not sure on it) and iirc 8B from Mechamaru. There might be others I'm not aware of though

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Inb4 someone says this makes Exponent multipliers for black flash valid now even if it makes them large Star or whatever

Makes sense to me since 4A Gojo is clearly what was intended by Akutami