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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

EldemadeDityjon said:
OP, Bleach & Gintama ain't belong Shonen jump? 🤕
I don't have any comments on Jolyne because still not caught up to that part but Maki & Sakura must be a joke.
Click to expand...
I think its a matter of prominence, popularity and recency.

Jolyne was a main character and she just had her anime wrap up, she's got all three going for her.

Naruto generally was more popular than Bleach, and I would argue Sakura is actually a more prominent character than most bleach women in her story (specifically in that Sakura has several big moments across the entire length of the series whereas a lot of Bleach women don't have as many nor as wide as moments. Like Rukia is the closes example to this in bleach, and her final moment of the series happens in the middle of the TYBW whereas Sakura gets her final last big moment near the tail end of The War Arc)

Maki has all three going for her as well. Recency bias and popularity are easy to figure, but also due to the shorter length of JJK and how she's emphasized within the canon she's also arguably more prominent than the likes of Rukia or Orihime. You can see this in the simple metric of Maki having either the same amount as or more fights than Rukia.
 
Notice how all these female characters are secondary characters, and only Jolyne is the main character of her manga.

Jolyne has a lot more going on for her than just recency bias and popularity. How many female shounen protagonists do you know?

Maki only got some screen and development after a hundred chapters and sometimes she appears as the badass woman. Sakura got a few moments here and there since she first appeared, and peaked against Sasori.

While pre-SBR JoJo wasn’t known for its character’s development, Jolyne still got a whole ~150 chapters manga dedicated to her character and sharing the screen with another woman (Ermes) and sometimes two man (Weather and Anasui, who’s only her love interest).
 
Duedate8898 said:
I think its a matter of prominence, popularity and recency.

Jolyne was a main character and she just had her anime wrap up, she's got all three going for her.
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No comments on this. Gotta catch up.
Duedate8898 said:
Naruto generally was more popular than Bleach, and I would argue Sakura is actually a more prominent character than most bleach women in her story (specifically in that Sakura has several big moments across the entire length of the series whereas a lot of Bleach women don't have as many nor as wide as moments. Like Rukia is the closes example to this in bleach, and her final moment of the series happens in the middle of the TYBW whereas Sakura gets her final last big moment near the tail end of The War Arc)
Click to expand...
I don't think Sakura had any big moments compared to Rukia and Orihime. Sure, she fought Sasori, but other than that, did she have any big fights besides the war arc? She was still overshadowed by Naruto and Sasuke. Rukia also geared up from the Arrancar Arc. Orihime had her moments from the Fullbring Arc, not just the war arc. Both had big moments, if not better moments, than Sakura. Other than fights Rukia and Orihime had character arcs of their own, respectively. Besides, unlike Sakura, Rukia isn't even hated by any fandoms. I can see Orihime getting the hate.
Duedate8898 said:
Maki has all three going for her as well. Recency bias and popularity are easy to figure, but also due to the shorter length of JJK and how she's emphasized within the canon she's also arguably more prominent than the likes of Rukia or Orihime. You can see this in the simple metric of Maki having either the same amount as or more fights than Rukia.
Click to expand...
I mean if it's about Prominent there is Yoruichi. She played very important part in every single arc (Except FB)
 
Sir_Marvulous said:
How does Yuji's binding vow work?
Click to expand...
by narrowing the range of his slashes he's able to amplify their potency. So since he can uniquely not only perceive the soul but target specific areas of the soul, he can narrow the slashes to such a level where they only hit the soul, and similar to a BV Sukuna made on Gojo by reducing the range of a slash it's potency increases.
 
Giannysmag said:
Which is funny cause she wasn't even the main focus of that fight character wise, Sasori was. It's just remembered as her peak because it was the only time she did something plot relevant
Click to expand...
but that is a character defining moment for Sakura. Her being able to prove herself as a Chunin against an Akatsuki member is not something you can just shove to a box as "plot relevant" that is a very vital and key character moment for her.

For example in Black Clover, you wouldn't say Magna's fight against Dante is just a "plot relevant" moment and not a character defining moment just because he peaked there. Magna was consistently being left behind Luck, Asta and other characters ik the Black Bulls, and he proved to himself and others his worth as a Magic Wizard by being able to box someone as powerful as Dante. Someone Asta AND Yami were struggling against.

Sakura literally has the same situation where she's been overlooked in and out verse due to her not being relevant in any way, and she proves that she's a force to be reckoned with after her training with Tsunade, shocking Naruto, Kakashi, Chiyo and Sasori - all Jonin level+ fighters.

It's just unfortunate she peaked there because it really seemed that Kishimoto was setting her up for something greater, and although she did get way stronger, it didn't really feel justified.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
No comments on this. Gotta catch up.

I don't think Sakura had any big moments compared to Rukia and Orihime. Sure, she fought Sasori, but other than that, did she have any big fights besides the war arc? She was still overshadowed by Naruto and Sasuke. Rukia also geared up from the Arrancar Arc. Orihime had her moments from the Fullbring Arc, not just the war arc. Both had big moments, if not better moments, than Sakura. Other than fights Rukia and Orihime had character arcs of their own, respectively. Besides, unlike Sakura, Rukia isn't even hated by any fandoms. I can see Orihime getting the hate.
Click to expand...
I'm not talking about quality of the moments, because that honestly doesn't matter for a poll like this. And just like how Sakura is overshadowed so too are Orihime and Rukia, to a larger degree. Like Sakura is mostly overshadowed by Naruto and Sasuke, but when it comes down to the final big fight, its her hanging there alongside the rest of her team. While Rukia and Orihime don't exist in that final battle against Yhwach, Renji does though for some reason.

But the bigger thing is that Sakura is a lot more active of a character across the length of Naruto than Rukia or Orhime are across the length of bleach. Like, by sheer structure of the stories, Naruto having like double the arcs of bleach and more length, she ends up doing a lot more than either of those characters. Sakura is widely disliked by the western fanbase for sure, but just off of screen-time and character actions she's a lot more prominent of a character within her story.

Like, Rukia's biggest arc is Soul Society where its spent with her doing so little.
Orihime's biggest arc is Heuco Mundo which is much the same.

Sakura's biggest arc is the Five Kage summit, and she's actively pushing the story forward and doing so much. And when we get to the final arcs of both series, Sakura does so much more and is treated as so much more important than either Rukia or Orihime are.

Real controversial take, but Kishimoto just does a lot more with Sakura than Kubo does with Rukia or Orihime. And not even to say he does better with her than Kubo does the other two, but he does do more.

EldemadeDityjon said:
I mean if it's about Prominent there is Yoruichi. She played very important part in every single arc (Except FB)
Click to expand...
But she doesn't actually. Like Maki got two whole sub arcs dedicated to her, and actually defeated more than one enemy. Yoruichi, sadly across the series, doesn't accomplish really anything. She's cool, but like if you look at what she actually gets done, it's near nothing.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
I don't think Sakura had any big moments compared to Rukia and Orihime. Sure, she fought Sasori, but other than that, did she have any big fights besides the war arc? She was still overshadowed by Naruto and Sasuke. Rukia also geared up from the Arrancar Arc. Orihime had her moments from the Fullbring Arc, not just the war arc. Both had big moments, if not better moments, than Sakura. Other than fights Rukia and Orihime had character arcs of their own, respectively. Besides, unlike Sakura, Rukia isn't even hated by any fandoms. I can see Orihime getting the hate.
Click to expand...
Rukia, maybe but Orihime..? The few instances that come to mind is her leaving Ichigo, her complex relationship with Ulquiorra, and her protecting Ichigo in TYBW.

I could be missing more but Orihime is not nearly as iconic nor has more big moments than Sakura.

Sakura vs Ino
Sakura vs Sasori
Sakura's consistent relevance throughout the war arc (Mostly as support)
 
Nierre said:
but that is a character defining moment for Sakura. Her being able to prove herself as a Chunin against an Akatsuki member is not something you can just shove to a box as "plot relevant" that is a very vital and key character moment for her.
Click to expand...
Idk that just doesn't do it for me. Her going "I wanna be as strong as everyone else" and then she does some off screen training and now she is as strong as everyone else just feels kinda lame for a character arc especially since she doesn't even stay relevant after this.

Also again the Sasori fight was primeraly about Sasori (which isn't bad mind you, I like Sasori), but it does overshadow any character moment Sakura might be having.
 
Tetsucabrah said:
I brought up the 6 eyes because iirc Gojo said he could perceive that fraction of a second required to land a black flash because of it
Click to expand...
He asks an unseen interviewer why they think he can land a Black Flash whenever he wants and if they think so because of the Six Eyes, implying that they have nothing to do with it

Gojo then paraphrases the cause of Black Flash in simple terms. He says that it's lackluster, and if that were all it took, he could just do it

If we go by his words, it doesn't seem like the Six Eyes are necessarily a factor
 
Tetsucabrah said:
I brought up the 6 eyes because iirc Gojo said he could perceive that fraction of a second required to land a black flash because of it
Click to expand...
I don't believe so, it was probably for the humidity and air stuff. And also Gojo's heightened perception is likely because of rct's refreshing of the brain making it better than others.
 
Nierre said:
Rukia, maybe but Orihime..? The few instances that come to mind is her leaving Ichigo, her complex relationship with Ulquiorra, and her protecting Ichigo in TYBW.

I could be missing more but Orihime is not nearly as iconic nor has more big moments than Sakura.

Sakura vs Ino
Sakura vs Sasori
Sakura's consistent relevance throughout the war arc (Mostly as support)
Click to expand...
Are we considering only fights as big moments, or overall character importance to the plot? Because Orihime has done more supporting back-up throughout the plot from the beginning to the end. Her importance was even recognized by one of the antagonists in the plot.

If we are talking about fights:

  • Orihime vs. Numb Chandler (trying to protect her friend)
  • Orihime vs. Ginjo (trying to protect Ichigo)
  • Orihime & Ichigo vs. Yhwach (fighting alongside Ichigo, the one she always wanted to support)

I do think Orihime's fights were more meaningful than Sakura's.
 
Duedate8898 said:
I'm not talking about quality of the moments, because that honestly doesn't matter for a poll like this. And just like how Sakura is overshadowed so too are Orihime and Rukia, to a larger degree. Like Sakura is mostly overshadowed by Naruto and Sasuke, but when it comes down to the final big fight, its her hanging there alongside the rest of her team. While Rukia and Orihime don't exist in that final battle against Yhwach, Renji does though for some reason.

But the bigger thing is that Sakura is a lot more active of a character across the length of Naruto than Rukia or Orhime are across the length of bleach. Like, by sheer structure of the stories, Naruto having like double the arcs of bleach and more length, she ends up doing a lot more than either of those characters. Sakura is widely disliked by the western fanbase for sure, but just off of screen-time and character actions she's a lot more prominent of a character within her story.

Like, Rukia's biggest arc is Soul Society where its spent with her doing so little.
Orihime's biggest arc is Heuco Mundo which is much the same.

Sakura's biggest arc is the Five Kage summit, and she's actively pushing the story forward and doing so much. And when we get to the final arcs of both series, Sakura does so much more and is treated as so much more important than either Rukia or Orihime are.

Real controversial take, but Kishimoto just does a lot more with Sakura than Kubo does with Rukia or Orihime. And not even to say he does better with her than Kubo does the other two, but he does do more.
Click to expand...
I agree with few & disagree with most of this. But I don't want to continue this don't enough free time to address every instance 😞.
Duedate8898 said:
But she doesn't actually. Like Maki got two whole sub arcs dedicated to her, and actually defeated more than one enemy. Yoruichi, sadly across the series, doesn't accomplish really anything. She's cool, but like if you look at what she actually gets done, it's near nothing.
Click to expand...
But I'll say few things about this
Yoruichi defeated Soi fon (one of the captains)
She also beats up Yami (one of the top 10 Espadas)
She teaming up with Kisuke beats up Aizen if it wasn't for Hogyoku
She nearly killed Askin
All people she had fought were pretty strong in their own. Saying she only beat one enemy and didn't had big accomplishments than Maki is sincerely wrong.

Meanwhile Maki gets owned by Holding back Hanami. She also got owned by Geto. She gets owned by Dagon. She beats Naoya & few fodders in the verse at best and gets owned by Sukuna who is not even had 10% of still having Yuji's support. Current arc she is been shown as walking L nothing more.

Yoruichi trained MC and Assisted his GC throughput the series. Saying she isn't importance than Maki is just wrong. Yoruichi had more accomplish from both plot and fights than Maki. We don't need backstory for every supporting characters. She had played her role as a supporting character better than Maki.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
But I'll say few things about this
Yoruichi defeated Soi fon (one of the captains)
She also beats up Yami (one of the top 10 Espadas)
She teaming up with Kisuke beats up Aizen if it wasn't for Hogyoku
She nearly killed Askin
All people she had fought were pretty strong in their own. Saying she only beat one enemy and didn't had big accomplishments than Maki is sincerely wrong.

Meanwhile Maki gets owned by Holding back Hanami. She also got owned by Geto. She gets owned by Dagon. She beats Naoya & few fodders in the verse at best and gets owned by Sukuna who is not even had 10% of still having Yuji's support. Current arc she is been shown as walking L nothing more.

Yoruichi trained MC and Assisted his GC throughput the series. Saying she isn't importance than Maki is just wrong. Yoruichi had more accomplish from both plot and fights than Maki. We don't need backstory for every supporting characters. She had played her role as a supporting character better than Maki.
Click to expand...
I say she isn't as important as Maki because when past Soul Society, the second arc of the series, is Yoruchi made into a big deal and actually accomplishes something? Because Maki doesn't do a lot in JJK, she really only has three things (really 2) going for her in terms of accomplishments within the series.

Her destroying the Zenin clan
Killing the second fastest sorcerer alive, twice
And removing World Cutting Slash from Sukuna

Yoruichi just does less than this.

Spoilers for TYBW since I know we got new people checking the series out at the moment below.

Because of most things you've listed that Yoruchi accomplished, none of them are ever given that level of importance Maki's biggest accomplishment. And citing her almost killing Askin or fighting Aizen, is like citing the fact that Maki fought Sukuna solo twice. Both of them lose these encounters, and I would argue Maki's treated a lot more important that Yoruchi is in her losing fights. Like against Aizen, she's the least important of the trio to pull up, and she gets offscreened. Isshin and Urahara both get big moments after this within the arc while Yoruichi is just gone. Or how about in the fight against Askin, Yoruchi's biggest moment of that fight is her being forced against her will into a transformation that ultimately fails and is more just padding for Urahara to unveil his bankai then she's gone for the rest of the series. At least Maki's second fight with Sukuna, when she loses it, she's allowed to hop back in afterwards and then remove his unblockable attack from the equation.

That's not even to mention how due to how Yhwach works, Askin's fight ultimately doesn't even matter for the series since Yhwach was just going to kill him in the end. It was literally busywork. Which doesn't really help give importance to these characters.
 
Duedate8898 said:
I say she isn't as important as Maki because when past Soul Society, the second arc of the series, is Yoruchi made into a big deal and actually accomplishes something? Because Maki doesn't do a lot in JJK, she really only has three things (really 2) going for her in terms of accomplishments within the series.

Her destroying the Zenin clan
Killing the second fastest sorcerer alive, twice
And removing World Cutting Slash from Sukuna

Yoruichi just does less than this.

Spoilers for TYBW since I know we got new people checking the series out at the moment below.
Click to expand...
This doesn't make sense with how you're looking at it, so what she doesn't do more big deal stuff past SS, everything she did is already more important than what Maki does and Maki herself. Yoruichi saved Kisuke allowing him to continue more research on the Hog and Hollowfication. She saved the Visored who were gonna be killed, the people who went on to train Ichigo in controlling his Mask powers, a major thing that carried him throughout Hueco Mundo and also participated in both war arcs.
 
Duedate8898 said:
I say she isn't as important as Maki because when past Soul Society,
Click to expand...
You are acting like Maki fought someone important and accomplished something? Also I listed Yoruichi feats below
Duedate8898 said:
the second arc of the series, is Yoruchi made into a big deal and actually accomplishes something?
Click to expand...
FKT and HM invasions are both same arc split into two parts. She fighting Aizen is literally the part of the second arc. Unless you split them both for your sake of arguments.
Duedate8898 said:
Because Maki doesn't do a lot in JJK, she really only has three things (really 2) going for her in terms of accomplishments within the series.

Her destroying the Zenin clan
Click to expand...
Pretty fodder compared to Yoruichi beating Down a squad and it's captain on her own.
Duedate8898 said:
Killing the second fastest sorcerer alive, twice
Click to expand...
Human Naoya isn't the second fastest Sorcerer alive. Dude gets owned by High tiers and dude already lost to worn out Choso.
Duedate8898 said:
And removing World Cutting Slash from Sukuna
Click to expand...
Acting like WCS from weakened Sukuna was doing anything is funny. Almost everyone was fast enough to dodge those, and even Kusakabe was able to counter it. I don't see how that really helped anyone so far. It literally needs charge up unless he uses BV.

Yeah, sure, give her credit for this; I don't mind. I feel sorry for her because she doesn't have any other feats to back up her importance. Let this small help be praised.
Duedate8898 said:
Yoruichi just does less than this.
Click to expand...
You know this is just a lie at this point. You didn't just say Yoruichi had less important feats. I don't know what you consider important when the smartest character & MC in the series wouldn't be there if it wasn't for her.
1. Brought Urahara to Gotei 13 and helped him in many ways. Without her bringing Urahara and making him captain later on, there wouldn't be Squad 12 or any scientific development in Gotei 13.
2. Saved Urahara from false charges by Central 46, which was crucial to the plot because he later stopped Aizen.
3. Saved Ichigo at least four times at the very important times.
4. Saved her brother from Askin, who is the next head of an important clan in the Soul Society.
5. Most importantly, she trained the main character group in the Beginning of Series and Soul Society arcs.
6. Made a roadway for Ichigo to reach Yhwach and SK Palace
Duedate8898 said:
Spoilers for TYBW since I know we got new people checking the series out at the moment below.

Because of most things you've listed that Yoruchi accomplished, none of them are ever given that level of importance Maki's biggest accomplishment. And citing her almost killing Askin or fighting Aizen, is like citing the fact that Maki fought Sukuna solo twice. Both of them lose these encounters, and I would argue Maki's treated a lot more important that Yoruchi is in her losing fights. Like against Aizen, she's the least important of the trio to pull up, and she gets offscreened. Isshin and Urahara both get big moments after this within the arc while Yoruichi is just gone. Or how about in the fight against Askin, Yoruchi's biggest moment of that fight is her being forced against her will into a transformation that ultimately fails and is more just padding for Urahara to unveil his bankai then she's gone for the rest of the series. At least Maki's second fight with Sukuna, when she loses it, she's allowed to hop back in afterwards and then remove his unblockable attack from the equation.
Click to expand...
I already explained Yoruichi's importance to the plot above, so I guess I don't need to repeat it again.

Ino also fought Sukuna, so let's put him above Shikamaru as a character? Just because Shikamaru didn't fight Isshiki in the series. Are you now trying to make a point that a character needs to fight the main villain to be important to the plot?

Also, I already explained that without Yoruichi saving Ichigo from Askin, there wouldn't even be any chance of Ichigo reaching Yhwach. That's an important factor. It doesn't matter if she wins or loses there.

In Aizen's case, Kisuke's Kido was needed to placed in Aizen without him realising it, and it doesn't matter if it was just a distraction on its own.

Saving Ichigo from Byakuya in the Soul Society arc was also important for that arc, and she is the one who helped his growth and achieve Bankai in a short period.
Duedate8898 said:
That's not even to mention how due to how Yhwach works, Askin's fight ultimately doesn't even matter for the series since Yhwach was just going to kill him in the end. It was literally busywork. Which doesn't really help give importance to these characters.
Click to expand...
I don't like your argument that Askin was going to get killed, so Yoruichi fighting him was not important to the plot. It is clearly important because Yoruichi and Kisuke holding him there allowed Ichigo to freely reach Yhwach and fight him. This just shows your lack of knowledge about Bleach and the importance of Yoruichi and Kisuke fighting Askin. Without her saving Ichigo from Askin, there wouldn't even be any chance for the MC's side to win.
 
Arkenis said:
This doesn't make sense with how you're looking at it, so what she doesn't do more big deal stuff past SS, everything she did is already more important than what Maki does and Maki herself. Yoruichi saved Kisuke allowing him to continue more research on the Hog and Hollowfication. She saved the Visored who were gonna be killed, the people who went on to train Ichigo in controlling his Mask powers, a major thing that carried him throughout Hueco Mundo and also participated in both war arcs.
Click to expand...
LMAO. I had forgot she saved Visords when she saved Kisuke.
Yeah without Visords Ichigo wouldn't have mastered his hollow form. Without Yoruichi there wouldn't be any Visords alive. Good point.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
What do you guys think about this
Click to expand...

Logically this wouldn't be needed, the ct is already in the brain, he doesn't need to make himself the ct. And I feel like this is just a misunderstanding or Gege needs to address this but the Domain he used was for the gravity ct, not his own ct meaning his ct isn't burnt out. It can also be that his ct doesn't get burnt out simply through the mechanics behind it.
 
Arkenis said:
Logically this wouldn't be needed, the ct is already in the brain, he doesn't need to make himself the ct. And I feel like this is just a misunderstanding or Gege needs to address this but the Domain he used was for the gravity ct, not his own ct meaning his ct isn't burnt out. It can also be that his ct doesn't get burnt out simply through the mechanics behind it.
Click to expand...
Let's pray Gege explains that lol.
Giannysmag said:
Ngl I **** with that concept heavy, i remember there was Kennyr return theory very similar to this
Click to expand...
Funny enough I'm one of the people who want to see Kenny make a comeback
 
Anyway, crazy how Kenjaku is coming back
Screenshot_20240712-190130.png
 
Tbh I like to believe that Sukuna thought that he would lose when Gojo used Purple for the second time since he didnt know that the first one was amp by 200%, and everything end up as a big surprise for him
 
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