Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

That also leads into issues like Miguel dodging Sukuna's slashes or Maki dodging the WCS

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Pretty sure even when it occurred it got treated as an outlier. It happens within the same span as sukuna getting tagged by Kashimos sonic attack

I'm talking about True Form Sukuna, not Meguna in his worst state.

Those sonic attack arguments are honestly quite silly. First of all, the attack itself is AOE. Second, Sukuna never actually tried to dodge them seriously—he just calls the attack loud and brushes it off. He only dodges attacks when necessary. Also, Kashimo's sonic attacks are used purely as a distraction.

Also it was never stated or implied that Sukuna was struggling with that attack's speed.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

That also leads into issues like Miguel dodging Sukuna's slashes or Maki dodging the WCS

Miguel dodging shouldn't mess up any scaling to be fair.

Miguel dodged due to his Cursed Technique, and he's also far faster than that version of Sukuna, with his physicals being scaled to Gojo by narrative.

Maki dodged that attack from a certain distance.

Additionally, you should consider that Sukuna was heavily weakened at that point, so his output might have lessened, affecting the attack's speed.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Except for Yuji having another 10 fingers’ worth of Sukuna's Cursed Energy flowing through him and Kenjaku removing the seals, we have Choso, who has no external source of Cursed Energy and is not even a pure Cursed Spirit. The blood he used in Shibuya while assisting Yuji came from his own Cursed Energy.

Cursed energy alone isn't gonna make him heal faster.

We have seen Cursed Spirits like Jogo require a large amount of time to recover their Cursed Energy. Additionally, IIRC Mahito also stated that he needed a week to regain the energy he lost during his fight with Mechamaru.

It's been over a week bruh

I think it's fair to say that Choso wasn't in his perfect state, even if you argue that he was in a better condition than when he fought Uraume and Kenjaku in Shibuya. His usage of Cursed Energy and the time spent assisting Yuji should have weakened him nonetheless.

What I'll say is this. While it's possible that Choso wasn't at max capacity, there's no evidence that he wasn't, and one certainly can't make assertions about how much stronger a "FP" Choso would be due to it being an unknown. So saying Naoya has a chance against IE Choso but gets slammed by FP Choso is just kind of an unprovable argument.

He carries a small knife at best and it would just help Choso like it did. So not a better argument

If he just keeps doing it he'll turn Choso into this (but with deeper cuts)

Eventually getting tired and getting overwhelmed, you mean. Choso has demonstrated far greater stamina feats, and not to mention, if Naoya keeps attacking Choso, Choso's blood will weigh him down just like it did in their fight. Naoya's only real advantage is his top speed.

The blood that again got on him because of the situation Naoya allowed to happen. That's part of the blood pool that Choso poured out initially.

So, this stalling technique isn't going to give Naoya a proper win condition. Also, Choso adapted to this technique, which is why Naoya resorted to using his Cursed Tool.

This shit ain't barely reacting and if he can move even faster without stacking up his CT he would have done that than using Cursed tool.

Reacts from a distance and still gets tagged, what a feat. Also that last sentence is just an assumption

Read the scan again. He needs to stack his CT to reach the max speed it's nowhere stated or implied he can reach the maximum speed without stack.

"There is an upper limit to the body's acceleration at the time of activating the cursed technique."
"However, maintaining the cursed technique allows speed to continuously build"
"I won't stop!"

Not sure where the contention is

Toji isn’t a fraud, but I never said Naoya couldn’t use a Cursed Tool. The whole point is that his normal attacks lack the power to pierce through Choso’s durability.

They clearly can to some extent as he elicits a pained expression and makes him spit blood, but it's irrelevant cause he can just use the cursed tool and cut off his head or smthn

There are only two things that have enough power to pierce through Choso. One is his Cursed Tool, but it doesn’t do significant damage—Naoya himself admits that the injury can be stopped easily with Blood Manipulation. The second is his top speed.

This isn't significant damage??

I was specifically talking about Naoya’s own win condition. His win condition against Choso comes from his top speed, which even he acknowledges by saying, "I won’t make the same mistake again," implying that nothing else in his arsenal provides a viable wincons.

How does that suggest that whatsoever...? He's just saying that stopping gave his opponent a chance to put pressure on him

I don’t see how he reaches his top speed without properly stacking it.

If he doesn’t stop attacking Choso and focus on stacking his speed, he won’t reach his peak velocity—the only thing that gives him enough piercing power to kill Choso.

Why are we acting like Choso and Maki are the same

Even Mach 3 Naoya had to stop attacking to build up his speed before blitzing Maki, despite knowing she could counter his attack if prepared.

The properties of Cursya's top speed are just entirely different, much more similar to conventional movement than normal Projection Sorcery

So, your argument that Naoya can reach his top speed without stopping his attacks doesn’t hold any credibility.

Doesn't need it anyways

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

If he just keeps doing it he'll turn Choso into this (but with deeper cuts)

I'm not taking this seriously at this point. You lost the argument when you compared the silly knife Naoya pulled out to Sukuna's Cleave, which adapts to an opponent's durability—while Gojo was getting sliced by countless slashes.

Also, why didn’t he just do this against Maki and instead went for top speed if you claim he would use this method? Obviously, this implies that Naoya can't pull off something like this. You're just making things up as an argument. This also indicates that Naoya himself acknowledges his win condition against Choso as his top speed.

The blood that again got on him because of the situation Naoya allowed to happen. That's part of the blood pool that Choso poured out initially.

It doesn't debunk Choso's blood weighing down his opponents, and if Naoya damages Choso enough, he would be in the same situation as this. Also, you are making a headcanon by claiming that Naoya purposely let himself get soaked just to get beaten by Choso.

It's still an IQ feat for Choso while making Naoya look like a guy who would fall for that.

Reacts from a distance and still gets tagged, what a feat. Also that last sentence is just an assumption

Bruh he was literally in range. You are acting like he was a kilometre away.
Also Naoya ducked and used Cursed tool. It doesn't debunks him being able to reach to Naoya's speed.

Why are we acting like Choso and Maki are the same

Why both are different? Choso is also a CQC fighter heck he has more abilities than Maki overall to counter Naoya.

The properties of Cursya's top speed are just entirely different, much more similar to conventional movement than normal Projection Sorcery

Doesn't seem any difference between his human versions and this both circled around the target to raise the speed. Only difference is speed of the versions.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Blame VS Wiki's reply feature for the double comment. I deleted my comments and was still typing when it got posted halfway.

Cursed energy alone isn't gonna make him heal faster.

It's been over a week bruh

What I'll say is this. While it's possible that Choso wasn't at max capacity, there's no evidence that he wasn't, and one certainly can't make assertions about how much stronger a "FP" Choso would be due to it being an unknown. So saying Naoya has a chance against IE Choso but gets slammed by FP Choso is just kind of an unprovable argument.

Except for the fact that Jogo took a break and Mahito likely had one too while preparing for the Shibuya incident, unlike Choso, who was actively helping Yuji, eliminating cursed spirits, and exhausting his cursed energy.



A week to recover?

Yet, the following events show that he wasn't using that time for recovery. Knowing Yuji's mentality, he isn’t someone who would sit back while thousands of cursed spirits are rampaging. Likewise, Choso isn’t the type to wait for his cursed energy to recover while his brother is fighting non-stop.

The fact that Yuji hasn’t recovered already suggests that he didn’t get proper rest. This also indicates that Choso didn’t get any rest either, given his character and his determination to help his brother in any way possible.

Also everything doesn't need to be stated straightforward when Manga has different ways of showcasing it.

Why do low or high levels even matter? You're acting like using CT doesn't exhaust one's CE. Gojo was able to activate it for two days but was still exhausted from keeping his CT active. Fatigue did catch up to him despite only fighting some thugs.

The series has already shown that even the strongest modern day sorcerers can get exhausted from continuously using their Cursed Techniques and cursed energy for days, despite only fighting low level sorcerers who are insignificant compared to the sheer number of cursed spirits Kenjaku has produced.

"There is an upper limit to the body's acceleration at the time of activating the cursed technique."
"However, maintaining the cursed technique allows speed to continuously build"
"I won't stop!".

I don't see how this supports your claim. He needs to stop attacking his opponents to stack his CT—that's what the lines are implying. If he keeps attacking, he wouldn't be stacking anything. Unless you can prove otherwise with scans and feats.
Maki feat is evident that he can't keep attacking his opponents while stacking his CT. He was attacking Maki for sometime later when he started stacking his CT he stopped it.

Not sure where the contention is

They clearly can to some extent as he elicits a pained expression and makes him spit blood, but it's irrelevant cause he can just use the cursed tool and cut off his head or smthn

What does a pained expression mean? You're acting like it's enough to kill a character easily.

We literally saw even Kamo survive for some time despite getting beaten down by Cursed Naoya. Human Naoya has nothing that surpasses that.

Same.Kamo who is Semi grade 1 comparable to Megumi and heavily weaker than Hanami.

Also Naoya cutting off Choso's head with cursed tool is headcanon. I'm pretty sure he can't land a clean hit that's why he gone for stomach and as I mentioned he didn't pulled anything like that against Maki.

This isn't significant damage??

Great he is gonna a create a path for Choso to use blood pool easily nothing else.

 

[Duedate8898]

I'm talking about True Form Sukuna, not Meguna in his worst state.

Those sonic attack arguments are honestly quite silly. First of all, the attack itself is AOE. Second, Sukuna never actually tried to dodge them seriously—he just calls the attack loud and brushes it off. He only dodges attacks when necessary. Also, Kashimo's sonic attacks are used purely as a distraction.

Also it was never stated or implied that Sukuna was struggling with that attack's speed.

I know what you're talking about, what I'm saying is that it was still dismissed within that.

While I'm sure there's many ways to justify Sukuna getting tagged by the sound attack (faster sound due to the way MBA works, AOE, the fact that Sukuna can't actually see sound) the ultimate thing is that he got tagged by it and that is used as support as to why Sukuna can't have anywhere close to LS reactions.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

"Outlier" and it's two characters; one in the worst physical state possible, and the other with all injuries healed

 

[Rosa]

End of 263 just has it already hitting the ground so idk the punch keep before it landed. Also there's the fact we don't know how close JL was before Sukuna punched if we did agree on him punching before.

There's a panel of motion lines approaching Sukuna as he looks up, idk what they could be if not the JL landing, and the 263 panel could just not illustrate Sukuna due to the scale of the shot.

Doubt it's from that because in the chapter before when Angel is directly above him he isn't burning then JL hits at the end of the chapter and we see the burning effect in the next chapter

We don't get a good shot of Sukuna before. Point is, the burn marks appear before JL hits so the burn marks appearing on Sukuna isn't an indication that JL has hit.