Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[EldemadeDityjon]

I say she isn't as important as Maki because when past Soul Society,

You are acting like Maki fought someone important and accomplished something? Also I listed Yoruichi feats below

the second arc of the series, is Yoruchi made into a big deal and actually accomplishes something?

FKT and HM invasions are both same arc split into two parts. She fighting Aizen is literally the part of the second arc. Unless you split them both for your sake of arguments.

Because Maki doesn't do a lot in JJK, she really only has three things (really 2) going for her in terms of accomplishments within the series.

Her destroying the Zenin clan

Pretty fodder compared to Yoruichi beating Down a squad and it's captain on her own.

Killing the second fastest sorcerer alive, twice

Human Naoya isn't the second fastest Sorcerer alive. Dude gets owned by High tiers and dude already lost to worn out Choso.

And removing World Cutting Slash from Sukuna

Acting like WCS from weakened Sukuna was doing anything is funny. Almost everyone was fast enough to dodge those, and even Kusakabe was able to counter it. I don't see how that really helped anyone so far. It literally needs charge up unless he uses BV.

Yeah, sure, give her credit for this; I don't mind. I feel sorry for her because she doesn't have any other feats to back up her importance. Let this small help be praised.

Yoruichi just does less than this.

You know this is just a lie at this point. You didn't just say Yoruichi had less important feats. I don't know what you consider important when the smartest character & MC in the series wouldn't be there if it wasn't for her.

Spoiler

1. Brought Urahara to Gotei 13 and helped him in many ways. Without her bringing Urahara and making him captain later on, there wouldn't be Squad 12 or any scientific development in Gotei 13.
2. Saved Urahara from false charges by Central 46, which was crucial to the plot because he later stopped Aizen.
3. Saved Ichigo at least four times at the very important times.
4. Saved her brother from Askin, who is the next head of an important clan in the Soul Society.
5. Most importantly, she trained the main character group in the Beginning of Series and Soul Society arcs.
6. Made a roadway for Ichigo to reach Yhwach and SK Palace

Spoilers for TYBW since I know we got new people checking the series out at the moment below.

Spoiler

Because of most things you've listed that Yoruchi accomplished, none of them are ever given that level of importance Maki's biggest accomplishment. And citing her almost killing Askin or fighting Aizen, is like citing the fact that Maki fought Sukuna solo twice. Both of them lose these encounters, and I would argue Maki's treated a lot more important that Yoruchi is in her losing fights. Like against Aizen, she's the least important of the trio to pull up, and she gets offscreened. Isshin and Urahara both get big moments after this within the arc while Yoruichi is just gone. Or how about in the fight against Askin, Yoruchi's biggest moment of that fight is her being forced against her will into a transformation that ultimately fails and is more just padding for Urahara to unveil his bankai then she's gone for the rest of the series. At least Maki's second fight with Sukuna, when she loses it, she's allowed to hop back in afterwards and then remove his unblockable attack from the equation.

Spoiler

I already explained Yoruichi's importance to the plot above, so I guess I don't need to repeat it again.

Ino also fought Sukuna, so let's put him above Shikamaru as a character? Just because Shikamaru didn't fight Isshiki in the series. Are you now trying to make a point that a character needs to fight the main villain to be important to the plot?

Also, I already explained that without Yoruichi saving Ichigo from Askin, there wouldn't even be any chance of Ichigo reaching Yhwach. That's an important factor. It doesn't matter if she wins or loses there.

In Aizen's case, Kisuke's Kido was needed to placed in Aizen without him realising it, and it doesn't matter if it was just a distraction on its own.

Saving Ichigo from Byakuya in the Soul Society arc was also important for that arc, and she is the one who helped his growth and achieve Bankai in a short period.

Spoiler

That's not even to mention how due to how Yhwach works, Askin's fight ultimately doesn't even matter for the series since Yhwach was just going to kill him in the end. It was literally busywork. Which doesn't really help give importance to these characters.

I don't like your argument that Askin was going to get killed, so Yoruichi fighting him was not important to the plot. It is clearly important because Yoruichi and Kisuke holding him there allowed Ichigo to freely reach Yhwach and fight him. This just shows your lack of knowledge about Bleach and the importance of Yoruichi and Kisuke fighting Askin. Without her saving Ichigo from Askin, there wouldn't even be any chance for the MC's side to win.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Spoiler

This doesn't make sense with how you're looking at it, so what she doesn't do more big deal stuff past SS, everything she did is already more important than what Maki does and Maki herself. Yoruichi saved Kisuke allowing him to continue more research on the Hog and Hollowfication. She saved the Visored who were gonna be killed, the people who went on to train Ichigo in controlling his Mask powers, a major thing that carried him throughout Hueco Mundo and also participated in both war arcs.

LMAO. I had forgot she saved Visords when she saved Kisuke.
Yeah without Visords Ichigo wouldn't have mastered his hollow form. Without Yoruichi there wouldn't be any Visords alive. Good point.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

What do you guys think about this

Spoiler: JJK263

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Spoiler: JJK263

 

[Arkenis]

What do you guys think about this

Spoiler: JJK263

Logically this wouldn't be needed, the ct is already in the brain, he doesn't need to make himself the ct. And I feel like this is just a misunderstanding or Gege needs to address this but the Domain he used was for the gravity ct, not his own ct meaning his ct isn't burnt out. It can also be that his ct doesn't get burnt out simply through the mechanics behind it.

 

[Giannysmag]

What do you guys think about this

Spoiler: JJK263

Ngl I **** with that concept heavy, i remember there was Kennyr return theory very similar to this

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Logically this wouldn't be needed, the ct is already in the brain, he doesn't need to make himself the ct. And I feel like this is just a misunderstanding or Gege needs to address this but the Domain he used was for the gravity ct, not his own ct meaning his ct isn't burnt out. It can also be that his ct doesn't get burnt out simply through the mechanics behind it.

Let's pray Gege explains that lol.

Ngl I **** with that concept heavy, i remember there was Kennyr return theory very similar to this

Funny enough I'm one of the people who want to see Kenny make a comeback

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Anyway, crazy how Kenjaku is coming back

 

[Ped2018]

If Kenjaku comes back JJK is gonna be an 11/10

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Next chapter It would be funny if Sukuna just dodges JL. Or he makes another acting like he did against Hana like Megumi is free and kills someone

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I think thats the first chapter that Sukuna said "I might lose right now..."

I really doubt that he will last for another 10 chapters

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Tbh I like to believe that Sukuna thought that he would lose when Gojo used Purple for the second time since he didnt know that the first one was amp by 200%, and everything end up as a big surprise for him

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Tbh I like to believe that Sukuna thought that he would lose when Gojo used Purple for the second time since he didnt know that the first one was amp by 200%, and everything end up as a big surprise for him

I mean he thought he would lose in that Weakened state

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

 

[Catpija]

the Domain he used was for the gravity ct, not his own ct meaning his ct isn't burnt out. It can also be that his ct doesn't get burnt out simply through the mechanics behind it.

then how did Yuta's body-hopping technique get burnt-out when the domain he used was Unlimited Void? Shouldn't it be limitless instead?

 

[Arkenis]

then how did Yuta's body-hopping technique get burnt-out when the domain he used was Unlimited Void? Shouldn't it be limitless instead?

Wait for the story to finish.

 

[JnSteHar002]

 

[M3X_2.0]

If their goal was to kill Megumi, Yuta could’ve just used Jacob’s Ladder to erase the cursed object and not to just stun Sukuna and weaken the barrier of the souls so Yuji could reach him.

Yuji and Yuta had Sukuna on their hands, 99% a checkmate.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Sukuna was hit by Jacob’s Ladder twice at this point and both of them had to only stun him rather than do what the CT is supposed to do, which is extinguish the cursed object and the CT.

Megumi is the reason they haven’t killed Sukuna yet and I’m pretty sure he was counting on this.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

If their goal was to kill Megumi, Yuta could’ve just used Jacob’s Ladder to erase the cursed object and not to just stun Sukuna and weaken the barrier of the souls so Yuji could reach him.

Yuji and Yuta had Sukuna on their hands, 99% a checkmate.

Megumi reacting with a good ol' "just five more minutes" after Yuji tried to wake him up is pretty much the only reason Sukuna ain't dead yet

 

[Arkenis]

This is basically all Yuta's fault. Hig, Yuta, and Yuji would've gotten the job done.

Higuruma: Yuji hit him with that left and right.
Yuji: BLACK FLASH 8x
Yuta: Rika hold him!
Yuta: STOP
Higuruma: Ahhhhhhh
Sukuna: Dismantle, Cleave, World Slash... Binding Vow #11
Higuruma:
Maki: grabs ex sword and stabs him.
Choso, Ino, Kusakabe, Miguel, Larue, Miwa: Why tf did we have to come???
Shoko:

Uraume: Senpai's not even trying ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ
Hakari: Bruh, what???

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I wish Gege had given better design for Todo's hand. It looks like he did to troll us. I mean dude could have used something similar to Mechamaru hand. He could have pulled it off its moment with CE like Sukuna pumping his heart.

 

[Giannysmag]

I wish Gege had given better design for Todo's hand. It looks like he did to troll us. I mean dude could have used something similar to Mechamaru hand. He could have pulled it off its moment with CE like Sukuna pumping his heart.

Counterpoint the vibraslap looks funny

 

[SheevShezarrine]

McD's is in fact a malevolent kitchen, which is why in my decade of food service experience I've avoided it like the plague

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Autism without a care in the world

SPITTING FR

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Nobara has been dead for years, she has not been in the manga since then, and was only mentioned a few times, and some people still thought she was alive because Megumi didn’t want to answer a question despite being OBVIOUS that she was dead.

Glad Gege confirmed this.

Nah she'll be back with a vibraslap prosthesis in place of her eye which will activate her awesome new Domain Expansion

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Because fodder verse

Peepee pisspiss verse, gets spited by Demon's Souls

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

 

[SheevShezarrine]

I mean, JJK hate is pretty popular topic online. Like a good portion of this thread is hating on JJK for the last few months.

Don't **** with Jujutsu Kaisen fans
We all despise the series with a fiery passion

 

[Sir_sun_man]

If their goal was to kill Megumi, Yuta could’ve just used Jacob’s Ladder to erase the cursed object and not to just stun Sukuna and weaken the barrier of the souls so Yuji could reach him.

Yuji and Yuta had Sukuna on their hands, 99% a checkmate.

oh yeah for sure, if yuta didn't stop the use of JL (which he did, pointed out directly after he uses it) he could've just fried sukuna right there right then nothing was stoping that but since megumi has to be all depressed sukuna managed to pull out a win.


Honestly I have a feeling that this MF is gonna pull out his acting skills like back in 213 and hana is going to fumble yet again.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

I think it's a mixture of popularity and high emotions. JJK right now is the main series of Shonen Jump, not only is it one of the best selling but all its competitors (except One Piece, which has fewer sales than JJK anyway) are coming to an end whilst JJK is at its climax, so in the shonen scene everyone's talking about JJK and it's natural for a hate bandwagon to form as a reaction from non-JJK fans. It probably hadn't helped that most people's conception of JJK fans are people like Pinoypins who argue Gojo solos everyone based on poor arguments similar to Goku fans. Then there's also the fact that the villains have been getting Ws recently, as is natural for the final arc of a series, and Gege isn't afraid to really gut punch the reader, so you have a rising hate bandwagon for JJK with a fanbase who is emotionally poised against the series. The mass hate is inevitable.

right on.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

You are acting like Maki fought someone important and accomplished something? Also I listed Yoruichi feats below

honestly both of ya should just stop both characters have a similar level of importance (with maki having debataly more due to the world slash removal and the heart pierce)

yoruichi took on a captain and a squad and won which led to ichigo having more time (the only really important character out of the squad being sui-feng as the vast majority of the squad was kinda fodder)

maki took out the zenin clan preventing one of the biggest potential threats to the rest of our cast (the only ones that could take the zenin reliably being yuta and hakari)

yoruichi saved the vizards which led to ichigo gaining a power up

maki backed up yuji in his fight with 15F meguna saving him from sukuna in the end.

yoruichi fought aizen along side urahara and isshin openings and greater understanding of aizens evolution through the fight.

maki held off sukuna long enough for yuta to be taken off the battle field and also gave yuji time to recover without sukuna ending him.

yoruichi fough askin along side urahara providing urahara with the needed openings to activate his bankai and push askin to the brink (prior to grimjow blind siding the guy)

Maki pierced sukuna's heart with the soul splitter causing damage that hasn't recovered still which in turn allowed characters like kusakabe the ability to actually be able to hold off sukuna for a short period of time.


Now the one thing that maki has over yoruichi is her taking out the World Slash which has now on 3 possibly 4 occasions taken out big cards out of the main casts deck those cards being; Kashimo who was the only character that could physically keep up with the 50ish % sukuna with the world slash putting an end to him before he could really do anything, Higaruma the best bet against sukuna throughout the whole fight with his growth as a sorcerer he was able to actively negate the regular slashes that sukuna had through DA and if not for the world slash yuji would've caught up making sure higaruma survives at which point we have yuta jumping in and its game over for sukuna, possibly yuta (we don't know if the thing that cut him was a WS or a full output regular slash) and of course the biggest card of all Gojo himself which requires no explonation.

The world slash even in a weakened state is a massive issue and sukuna losing that card because of maki is a huge W for our cast it would be akin to aizen losing one of his evolutions due to one of yoruichi's actions and is the only real reason one could put maki above Yoruichi in terms of narrative importance but again overall both characters serve a similar level of narrative importance as one another with maki being debatably greater due her taking the world slash off the table.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

If JJK fans really hype Maki like she's removing WCS more than Aizen getting defeated, Kisuke's introduction to the Gotei 13, Squad 12's development, Ichigo's victories in SS, Ichigo getting saved on four important occasions, Ichigo getting control over his Hollow powers, and removing Askin from the occasion so that Ichigo can fight Yhwach.

Sure, Lobotomy Kaisen is just hitting hard. I mean I guess JJK discussion thread you wouldn't want to admit your favourite character is not better than other series .

 

[Sir_sun_man]

If JJK fans really hype Maki like she's removing WCS more than Aizen getting defeated, Kisuke's introduction to the Gotei 13, Squad 12's development, Ichigo's victories in SS, Ichigo getting saved on four important occasions, Ichigo getting control over his Hollow powers, and removing Askin from the occasion so that Ichigo can fight Yhwach.

she didn't defeat aizen and neither did she remove askin by herself.

maki has a very similar level of importance to yoruichi and I flat out pointed each part out, also introducing/helping a character is not much of an achivement for the character themselves, like maki helped train yuta and helped him get a hang of his fighting style does that mean maki gets all the importance of yuta? no, same with yoruichi, because again narratively speaking they have both saved the main character on a number of occasions and took out threats to the main casts goals.

you wouldn't want to admit your favourite character is not better than other series .

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

she didn't defeat aizen and neither did she remove askin by herself.

Where did I say she defeated Aizen or Askin herself? I didn't even mention anything about Askin being defeated.

No Yoruichi means no Kisuke, which means no Aizen defeat.

It seems you ignored 99% of what I explained above.

maki has a very similar level of importance to yoruichi and I flat out pointed each part out, also introducing/helping a character is not much of an achivement for the character themselves, like maki helped train yuta and helped him get a hang of his fighting style does that mean maki gets all the importance of yuta?

Yuta learning a few sword skills isn't a big deal. He trained with everyone and could have picked up those skills from Kusakabe. Even if we credit Maki for teaching him some sword skills, it's nowhere near as significant as Yoruichi teaching Ichigo Bankai (a very important thing) and training his group.

Yuta learning sword skills is still nowhere near as useful as Ichigo needing the Visoreds' help to learn hollow powers (without Yoruichi, there wouldn't be any Visoreds).

She is the one who brought Urahara to the Gotei 13. I already explained the importance of this. Without her, his skills wouldn't have been recognized, and there wouldn't even be a Squad 12, which contributed so much in every arc. Do you think Maki teaching Yuta sword skills is better than this?

Maki has zero contributions to Yuji's skills who is MC of the current main series. While Ichigo and his GC most of the fighting skills comes from Yoruichi.

no, same with yoruichi, because again narratively speaking they have both saved the main character on a number of occasions

Maki saved Yuji twice at best (though I don't think Yuji needed saving in chapter 213), whereas Yoruichi saved Ichigo at least 4-5 times at very important times.

and took out threats to the main casts goals.

I have already listed multiple contributions of Yoruichi. In contrast, Maki's only contributions are damaging Sukuna's heart and removing the WCS. Saving Yuji 2 times at best.. teaching Yuta some sword skills? Killing Zenin clan is waste so I wouldn't even consider that had any big impact. Lol

Spoiler

1. Brought Urahara to Gotei 13 and helped him in many ways. Without her bringing Urahara and making him captain later on, there wouldn't be Squad 12 or any scientific development in Gotei 13.
2. Saved Urahara from false charges by Central 46, which was crucial to the plot because he later stopped Aizen.
3. Saved Ichigo at least four times at the very important times.
4. Saved her brother from Askin, who is the next head of an important clan in the Soul Society.
5. Most importantly, she trained the main character group in the Beginning of Series and Soul Society arcs.
6. Made a roadway for Ichigo to reach Yhwach and SK Palace

Yoruichi and Kisuke holding Askin there allowed Ichigo to freely reach Yhwach and fight him. This just shows your lack of knowledge about Bleach and the importance of Yoruichi and Kisuke fighting Askin. Without her saving Ichigo from Askin, there wouldn't even be any chance for the MC's side to win.

Maki defeating the Zenin clan had zero impact on the plot, unlike Yoruichi defeating Soifon, which reduced the burden on Ichigo by preventing him from having to deal with two Captains. Ichigo almost lost to Byakuya, who was slower than Yoruichi. Soifon would have been a significant hurdle for him if it wasn't for Yoruichi. Not to mention, he wouldn't have survived after the Kenpachi fight if she hadn't saved him there. If she wasn't there, he wouldn't have had any chances of obtaining Bankai.

Meanwhile, the Zenin clan barely interacted with Jujutsu High or Kenjaku. They were insignificant and neutral. Their removal had no overall impact. Gojo or Sukuna would have eventually killed them if they tried anything funny with Megumi.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Maki defeating the Zenin clan had zero impact on the plot, unlike Yoruichi defeating Soifon, which reduced the burden on Ichigo by preventing him from having to deal with two Captains. Ichigo almost lost to Byakuya, who was slower than Yoruichi. Soifon would have been a significant hurdle for him if it wasn't for Yoruichi. Not to mention, he wouldn't have survived after the Kenpachi fight if she hadn't saved him there. If she wasn't there, he wouldn't have had any chances of obtaining Bankai.

dude that can be thrown right back at ya, you know? sui-feng had the same level of impact as the zenin, actually no scratch that as in soul society she is canonicly weaker then byakuya with her having the lowest spiritual pressure of the captains meaning she wouldn't be quite as big of a hurdle for ichigo as byakuya was but she would've still been a massive burden on ichigo prior to the byakuya fight. The zenin clan on the other hand could've fliped the story on its head for these simple reason;

naoya was able to take on choso and was speed blitzing both him and yuji and the only reason choso won being his abilities countering that of naoya with flowing red scale stacked allowing him to see his movements and his cursed womb abilities allowing for poisoning and blood refiling, with all of that combined it was still a close fight with naoya doing some seriouse damage to choso who in the last arc beat yuji while being at a disadvantage.

This alone puts zenin as a threat as naoya alone could potentially take out someone like yuji who at the time would be unable to answer naoya's speed advantage or his frame abilities and if the zenin go after megmui that changes the story drastically as now megumi who is arguably weaker than yuji at this point would have to face not only multiple sorcerers at yuji's level or above meaning his only solution would be mahoraga meaning unavoidable death since yet again they are in the culling games yuji and megumi are seperated so no sukuna coming in the last second to save megumi and gojo is sealed, meaning that if not for maki the story takes a drastic turn with megumi being dead and sukuna now being stuck in yuji's body potentially taking it over by unknown means leading to a whole different can of worms.

Meanwhile, the Zenin clan barely interacted with Jujutsu High or Kenjaku.

yeah cuse maki killed them all.

They were insignificant and neutral. Their removal had no overall impact. Gojo or Sukuna would have eventually killed them if they tried anything funny with Megumi.

first is sealed the other is on the other side of the culling games.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

dude that can be thrown right back at ya, you know?

You can't for reasons I'll state below.

sui-feng had the same level of impact as the zenin,

This is obviously you are lying to yourself.

Soifon had close enough AP and speed to keep up with Yoruichi, and her hax would still work on a Yoruichi-level opponent, who clearly had a statement for Reiatsu being on Byakuya's level, who is relative to Ichigo.

actually no scratch that as in soul society she is canonicly weaker then byakuya with her having the lowest spiritual pressure of the captains meaning she wouldn't be quite as big of a hurdle for ichigo as byakuya was but she would've still been a massive burden on ichigo prior to the byakuya fight.

Byakuya literally got blitzed by an out-of-shape Yoruichi. She trained for around three days and geared up before fighting Soifon. There is nowhere it states she was weaker to the point that Ichigo would negate her hax and speed. Her AP is listed as 80/100 while Byakuya's AP was 90/100, so the gap is not that big. Her hax would still have worked on Ichigo with the amount of Reiatsu he had at that time. Not to mention, you ignored that she would still have hindered him due to her speed. Or she could have waited for their fight to be over and killed Ichigo. It's not like he was healthy after fighting Byakuya.

The zenin clan on the other hand could've fliped the story on its head for these simple reason;

They couldn't; they wouldn't. The only thing they needed was to get rid of Megumi, and for that, they still needed to deal with the Culling Game players. If they entered the colony, they would have been thrown to random places, so there was a 50/50 chance of them even meeting Megumi. Not to mention, Takaba was with Megumi; with his hax, he would have survived nonetheless, and the explosion guy would have killed most of them for the points.

Also, the Zenin clan was filled with fodders. I can bet Megumi would have cooked everyone except Naoya. As I mentioned above, it's not like they would have come all together.

naoya was able to take on choso and was speed blitzing both him and yuji and the only reason choso won being his abilities countering that of naoya with flowing red scale stacked allowing him to see his movements and his cursed womb abilities allowing for poisoning and blood refiling, with all of that combined it was still a close fight with naoya doing some seriouse damage to choso who in the last arc beat yuji while being at a disadvantage.

Ok? I don't see the importance of this for Maki.

This alone puts zenin as a threat as naoya alone could potentially take out someone like yuji who at the time would be unable to answer naoya's speed advantage or his frame abilities and if the zenin go after megmui that changes the story drastically as now megumi who is arguably weaker than yuji at this point would have to face not only multiple sorcerers at yuji's level or above meaning his only solution would be mahoraga meaning unavoidable death since yet again they are in the culling games yuji and megumi are seperated so no sukuna coming in the last second to save megumi and gojo is sealed, meaning that if not for maki the story takes a drastic turn with megumi being dead and sukuna now being stuck in yuji's body potentially taking it over by unknown means leading to a whole different can of worms.

Same as above them meeting Megumi was 50/50 chances and Culling game players would have killed.most of them

yeah cuse maki killed them all.

Even before that, they literally had no impact. Also, for the same reasons as above, they didn't have any chances to jump Megumi. Also, killing Megumi barely had any impact either, as Sukuna might have chosen someone else as a vessel. It's rare, but who cares? It's not like he is out of options. He could have waited for another hundred or thousand years.

first is sealed the other is on the other side of the culling games.

Same as above they didn't had any openings on Megumi. Even if Gojo was sealed.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Soifon had close enough AP and speed to keep up with Yoruichi, and her hax would still work on a Yoruichi-level opponent, who clearly had a statement for Reiatsu being on Byakuya's level, who is relative to Ichigo.

one, no she doesn't have statements about her spiritual pressure being on the level of byakuya the only thing she has on him is the speed advantage which is brought up in their first meeting (in few hundred years) in soul socity in chapter 117 when she seals his sword before he can unleash his shikai while he was focusing on ichigo and in 118 where they where compering their shun-po a technique specifically focused on speed of movement with both showing themselves to be comperable to one another with yoruichi being the better user of the technique in the end

this is the one comperison between yoruichi and base byakuya we get in the arc... well other then this:

"you had no chance, no one there could've fought byakuya and lived"
considering that after their little shun-po exchange yoruichi was out of breath that includes her as well, she is not on his level in terms of attack power, defenses or spirit pressure, the only thing she has on him is speed and then not by much.

Byakuya literally got blitzed by an out-of-shape Yoruichi. She trained for around three days and geared up before fighting Soifon. There is nowhere it states she was weaker to the point that Ichigo would negate her hax and speed. Her AP is listed as 80/100 while Byakuya's AP was 90/100, so the gap is not that big. Her hax would still have worked on Ichigo with the amount of Reiatsu he had at that time. Not to mention, you ignored that she would still have hindered him due to her speed. Or she could have waited for their fight to be over and killed Ichigo. It's not like he was healthy after fighting Byakuya.

and you ignore the fact that base byakuya has the speed stat of 90, while Sui-Feng has a speed stat of 100, ichigo post bankai training was able to flat out blitz byakuya with him having to go into bankai himself to keep up

and speaking of stats
sui-feng

byakuya

she literally loses out to him on all stats other than speed/mobility where she has a 10 point lead and stamina where she has a 30 point lead.

Byakuya literally shatters her on everything else, attack power, spiritual pressure and kido mastery, defense and intellegence

and all of this is base byakuya not even his shikai or bankai which make him both far stronger and far faster (5-10 time that is) and even after all those buffs ichigo was leagues faster then him so no even after being wounded sui-feng is not keeping up with bankai ichigo (not to mention the fact that he will more than likely use the hollow mask and completely oblitirate her in no time at all).

They couldn't; they wouldn't. The only thing they needed was to get rid of Megumi, and for that, they still needed to deal with the Culling Game players. If they entered the colony, they would have been thrown to random places, so there was a 50/50 chance of them even meeting Megumi. Not to mention, Takaba was with Megumi; with his hax, he would have survived nonetheless, and the explosion guy would have killed most of them for the points.

cept maki killed them all before the culling games began and they where planning to go in and kill all 3 of them at about the same time that they where dealing with hakari (maki finishes the zenin clean up in chapter 152 the cast enters the culling games in 161) and even if we say the zenin clan wouldn't send out the hei and kukuru after megumi straight away there is the whole clan going through the 1 out of 9 barriers and there is again a high likely hood that the zenin clan would wait out a perfect opportunity to strike as half of them are assasins and megumi even with takaba there for help isn't immune to being split up, much like in his fight with reggie star where takaba took on Hazenoki while megumi 1v1'd reggie and in this case we will have the kukuru distracting takaba while the hei (5 semi grade 1 to grade 1 sorcers and naoya on top) would take on megumi leading to his death no matter how you slice it.

Also, the Zenin clan was filled with fodders. I can bet Megumi would have cooked everyone except Naoya. As I mentioned above, it's not like they would have come all together.

it ain't filled with fodder my man, maki is just special grade level something that megumi is just not, we are talking mutliple dozen kukuru aka grade 2 sorcers without CT's and the hei 5 grade 1s and naoya at the helm because if we start labeling grade 1 as fodder then guess what so is yuji and megumi at this point, because it ain't like now where yuji is a clear special grade and megumi is taken over by sukuna, this is the point in the story where both of them where going into full death matches with grade 1 opponents and winning by their skin of their teeth, coming up against multiple grade 1s and dozens of grade 2s at their back means certain death for them at this point.

Ok? I don't see the importance of this for Maki.

.... maki took him out, that massive issue that was naoya gone, poof reduced to nothing, it is pretty massive for her narrative importance.

Same as above them meeting Megumi was 50/50 chances and Culling game players would have killed.most of them

the only culling game players that could kill were mostly in one single colony and they were preocupied with yuta at the time and the only other player that could reliably take out literally 40+ grade 2s, 5 grade 1s and naoya on top, is kashimo and he would be fighting hakari at that point even if we say that only 1/4th of them would be in megumi's colony, that is certain death for him,

Even before that, they literally had no impact. Also, for the same reasons as above, they didn't have any chances to jump Megumi. Also, killing Megumi barely had any impact either, as Sukuna might have chosen someone else as a vessel. It's rare, but who cares? It's not like he is out of options.

and you think that would not have an impact? no mahoraga, no world slash, no world slash= the fight with gojo going on for longer weakening sukuna further and making him lose pretty much instantly the moment kashimo comes in as we'd have sukuna at less than 30% by that point with no world slash to one tap kashimo, megumi dying makes sukuna drastically weaker which in turn makes the current story conlusions just not the same in the slightest because at this point sukuna would be dead to yuji and higaruma after he loses even more output and strength wasting CE on kashimo.

He could have waited for another hundred or thousand years.

yeah and that would have exactly 0 impact on the story right?

Same as above they didn't had any openings on Megumi. Even if Gojo was sealed.

they did, planty of them in fact as mentioned above.


The zenin where a massive threat to our protag and dutorag and maki ripped them all apart single handedly taking multiple potential threats off the board.

and again I am saying that both Yoruichi and Maki have a similar level of importance with maki debatably havin more of a narrative impact.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

one, no she doesn't have statements about her spiritual pressure being on the level of byakuya the only thing she has on him is the speed advantage which is brought up in their first meeting (in few hundred years) in soul socity in chapter 117 when she seals his sword before he can unleash his shikai while he was focusing on ichigo and in 118 where they where compering their shun-po a technique specifically focused on speed of movement with both showing themselves to be comperable to one another with yoruichi being the better user of the technique in the end

this is the one comperison between yoruichi and base byakuya we get in the arc... well other then this:

"you had no chance, no one there could've fought byakuya and lived"
considering that after their little shun-po exchange yoruichi was out of breath that includes her as well, she is not on his level in terms of attack power, defenses or spirit pressure, the only thing she has on him is speed and then not by much.

Byakuya literally got blitzed by an out-of-shape Yoruichi.

^
Funny enough I already mentioned that. You seem to ignored. She was saying that because she was out of shape. Also sealing shikai means nothing. it doesn't amp his physical sts. It only gives him extra abilities. She also has Shunko instead of Bankai to amp her sts. Which she & Soifon using fought.

and you ignore the fact that base byakuya has the speed stat of 90, while Sui-Feng has a speed stat of 100, ichigo post bankai training was able to flat out blitz byakuya with him having to go into bankai himself to keep up

Mobility meaning freely moving one's body. Still Shunko is amp. Also Shumpo is something squad 2 is specialised with. Unlike Byakuya Aizen praises Soifon Shumpo. He may have mobility higher in his base it doesn't change Soifon can amp herself with Shumpo & Shunko..

mobility

1. the ability to move or walk around freely: 2. the ability to be moved from…

dictionary.cambridge.org

and speaking of stats
sui-feng

byakuya

she literally loses out to him on all stats other than speed/mobility where she has a 10 point lead and stamina where she has a 30 point lead.

Byakuya literally shatters her on everything else, attack power, spiritual pressure and kido mastery, defense and intellegence

Like I already said having 10 point lead isn't getting him anywhere. She fights through speed (Shumpo) and her shikai hax from the Shikai.
SP/kido is useless she doesn't need them. Defence is also useless when she can just dodge them.

and all of this is base byakuya not even his shikai or bankai which make him both far stronger and far faster (5-10 time that is) and even after all those buffs ichigo was leagues faster then him so no even after being wounded sui-feng is not keeping up with bankai ichigo (not to mention the fact that he will more than likely use the hollow mask and completely oblitirate her in no time at all).

She literally has Shunko to make up for that.
Also Byakuya never kept up with Hollow Ichigo dude got owned. Ichigo broke the mask on his own.

cept maki killed them all before the culling games began and they where planning to go in and kill all 3 of them at about the same time that they where dealing with hakari (maki finishes the zenin clean up in chapter 152 the cast enters the culling games in 161) and even if we say the zenin clan wouldn't send out the hei and kukuru after megumi straight away there is the whole clan going through the 1 out of 9 barriers and there is again a high likely hood that the zenin clan would wait out a perfect opportunity to strike as half of them are assasins and megumi even with takaba there for help isn't immune to being split up, much like in his fight with reggie star where takaba took on Hazenoki while megumi 1v1'd reggie and in this case we will have the kukuru distracting takaba while the hei (5 semi grade 1 to grade 1 sorcers and naoya on top) would take on megumi leading to his death no matter how you slice it.

it ain't filled with fodder my man, maki is just special grade level something that megumi is just not, we are talking mutliple dozen kukuru aka grade 2 sorcers without CT's and the hei 5 grade 1s and naoya at the helm because if we start labeling grade 1 as fodder then guess what so is yuji and megumi at this point, because it ain't like now where yuji is a clear special grade and megumi is taken over by sukuna, this is the point in the story where both of them where going into full death matches with grade 1 opponents and winning by their skin of their teeth, coming up against multiple grade 1s and dozens of grade 2s at their back means certain death for them at this point.

.... maki took him out, that massive issue that was naoya gone, poof reduced to nothing, it is pretty massive for her narrative importance.

the only culling game players that could kill were mostly in one single colony and they were preocupied with yuta at the time and the only other player that could reliably take out literally 40+ grade 2s, 5 grade 1s and naoya on top, is kashimo and he would be fighting hakari at that point even if we say that only 1/4th of them would be in megumi's colony, that is certain death for him,

and you think that would not have an impact? no mahoraga, no world slash, no world slash= the fight with gojo going on for longer weakening sukuna further and making him lose pretty much instantly the moment kashimo comes in as we'd have sukuna at less than 30% by that point with no world slash to one tap kashimo, megumi dying makes sukuna drastically weaker which in turn makes the current story conlusions just not the same in the slightest because at this point sukuna would be dead to yuji and higaruma after he loses even more output and strength wasting CE on kashimo.

yeah and that would have exactly 0 impact on the story right?

they did, planty of them in fact as mentioned above.


The zenin where a massive threat to our protag and dutorag and maki ripped them all apart single handedly taking multiple potential threats off the board.

All I see Zenin clan wank So I ain't reading alot.

Well regarding Megumi dying might have resulted in Sukuna's downfall. Well it would have in a positive way for Main cast lol.

and again I am saying that both Yoruichi and Maki have a similar level of importance with maki debatably havin more of a narrative impact.

Nuh ha.
I already explained many things other than Soifon case.

 

[Rosa]

Been thinking about whether or not holding back on a Black Flash makes any sense. The volume 0 light novel suggests you can't, as in order to occur the sorcerers needs to be at their best, but with Sukuna it simply doesn't make sense for his Black Flash punches to be all out.

A Black Flash is very consistently portrayed as a massive deal. Hanami has some serious hype for her durability and yet Yuji's Black Flash's were severely weakening her, Yuji and Eso had a few hand-to-hand exchanges before Yuji blew his entire arm off with a single Black Flash, Mahito's Black Flash's almost took out anyone they hit with Yuji's doing the same (Todo's was ineffective purely due to Mahito's inherent resilience to most forms of damage), in Volume 0 where the novel claims Yuta used Black Flash; Yuta's sword strike infused with most of his CE did nothing to Geto yet a Black Flash punch drew blood, and of course Sukuna went from surviving a 200% Hollow Purple (albeit 4km away) to being knocked completely unconscious by a Black Flash punch. The 2.5 exponent amp is seriously a game changer during a fight, yet Sukuna's never are.

When Sukuna hit Maki twice with Black Flash she was relatively unharmed after Sukuna perception blitzed her, but okay maybe Heavenly Restriction users are just tanks who's durability exceeds their other stats (teen Gojo upscale W), but then Maki gets taken out by Sukuna's dismantle... so was Gojo inside of Sukuna's domain surviving thousands of attacks each individually more damaging that Sukuna's Black Flash punches? Would Ryu survive a Black Flash from 16F Sukuna, despite having his head spurt blood all over from a single punch from Rika? Definitely brings into question some of my inverse scaling chains. Then Yuji's Black Flash punches do effectively minimal damage on Sukuna, which is okay; Sukuna being stronger still but disinterested in Yuji (therefore holding back) in that moment is defendable for me (Sukuna only starts getting scared near the end where the Black Flash punches are doing far more damage), but then Sukuna's own Black Flash does nothing on Yuji? So two people can tank each other's Black Flashes (Yuji and Sukuna) - so what's different from it and a normal punch? I'm not accepting that. The TODO tanks a Black Flash from Sukuna... so Todo's durability is on the level of a Heavenly Restriction user now? Ig it's possible though it definitely seems absurd.