Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Arkenis]

I pray I don't see Multi-City Block Mahito after the big crt.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

I pray I don't see Multi-City Block Mahito after the big crt.

He will probably be small town level off Hanami’s tree feat
But I mean if there is Multi City block Mahito I guess I’d have a cool match up for him (Copium I know)

 

[Elixirr]

From the looks of things, will the tiers for jjk characters be downgraded?

 

[Rocker1189]

Him creating “seemingly” a magnitude 4-5 Tremmor in Shibuya when he attacked Yuji and Todo
Basically 8-B to almost 8-A+

So about 8-B like to like I expected.

We know it’s unlimited with a huge asterisk
It’s just immeasurably larger by comparison to everyone else to the point that for them it seems limitless

But here is the thing he actually doesn't hold unlimited energy at a time. He just has practically unlimited stamina. That is a big different. Of course his base energy is still really high.

I pray I don't see Multi-City Block Mahito after the big crt.

I really have a different view on their level of power to you guys.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

From the looks of things, will the tiers for jjk characters be downgraded?

Most will get an upgrade, but it will have some speed downgrades on the verse

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Most will get an upgrade, but it will have some speed downgrades on the verse

After the speed downgrade most characters will be like Supersonic right?

 

[Rocker1189]

Most will get an upgrade, but it will have some speed downgrades on the verse

I am not so sure about that. If you are saying that 6-C calc should somehow scale you better have a better reason than your current domain scaling. Though even the domain calcs needs downgrading and the the meteor calc too.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

So about 8-B like to like I expected.

8-A is more likely as in the panel it looked like the buildings were shaking/vibrating
And Japanese buildings are extremely earthquake resistant so yeah
Magnitude 5 wouldn’t shake them much anyway so I think that’s fine.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

downgrading and the the meteor calc too.

Speaking of the meteor I wonder how much it yields using magnitude 4
I’m assuming like High 7-C or something

 

[Rocker1189]

8-A is more likely as in the panel it looked like the buildings were shaking/vibrating
And Japanese buildings are extremely earthquake resistant so yeah
Magnitude 5 wouldn’t shake them much anyway so I think that’s fine.

I would have to see the panel myself but 8-A, 8-B don't really care either way.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

I would have to see the panel myself but 8-A, 8-B don't really care either way.

Here it is

 

[Arkenis]

I really have a different view on their level of power to you guys.

Reread the series. Don't limit the characters to just feats I guess.

 

[Rocker1189]

Reread the series. Don't limit the characters to just feats I guess.

I literally read the whole series recently. And what do you mean dont limit the characters to just feats, feats is how you get scaling in the first place. I guess this is why I have a different sense of the level of power they are at if you arent using feats...

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Guys, relax

 

[Arkenis]

I literally read the whole series recently. And what do you mean dont limit the characters to just feats, feats is how you get scaling in the first place. I guess this is why I have a different sense of the level of power they are at if you arent using feats...

Well it just seems that you only take the feats and not the narrative into account. Like Sukuna being able to be hurt by any of the disaster curses isn't very accurate with the narrative that's portrayed, or the fact that you think because someone didn't do something means they can't.

 

[Elixirr]

I am not so sure about that. If you are saying that 6-C calc should somehow scale you better have a better reason than your current domain scaling. Though even the domain calcs needs downgrading and the the meteor calc too.

So will characters still be tier 7 or nah?

 

[Rocker1189]

Here it is

Wait wasnt this feat from Hanami collapsing a bunch of stuff or am I forgetting something.

This is similar to magnitude 5 lower on the Shido scale

EDIT: Note that nothing was destroyed because the buildings are reinforced, as the same site explains

To me it looks and matches 4 perfectly.

Well it just seems that you only take the feats and not the narrative into account.

I am taking the feats and statements into account I am not sure what you mean by narrative, that would be like saying that we should put Saitama at tier 2 cause obviously he should be the strongest thing in the verse because he is the one punch man after all.

Like Sukuna being able to be hurt by any of the disaster curses isn't very accurate with the narrative that's portrayed

How is it not portrayed based on anything I said. Just because a curse going all out can hurt him doesnt change the narratiev of him being the strongest curse based on a whole bunch of other stuff like speed and especially his abilities which makes his ridiculously strong. And his physicals can still scale far above any curse regardless. Sorry but this is vsbw, feats > statements >>>>> narrative.

or the fact that you think because someone didn't do something means they can't.

Someone would need a feat or statement as any sort of proof they can do something. I am not denying any feat or statement in the verse.

So will characters still be tier 7 or nah?

Well I think the top - god tiers could be tier 7. It depends on how we end up scaling some thing after recalculations.

 

[Arkenis]

So will characters still be tier 7 or nah?

I think only Kenjaku, Yuta and Gojo.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

To me it looks and matches 4 perfectly.

A magnitude 4 is not capable of shaking buildings so massively

5 Lower	Many people are frightened and feel the need to hold onto something stable.	Hanging objects such as lamps swing violently. Dishes in cupboards and items on bookshelves may fall. Many unstable ornaments fall. Unsecured furniture may move, and unstable furniture may topple over.	In some cases, windows may break and fall. People notice electricity poles moving. Roads may sustain damage.

Magnitude 5 on the Shido scale is perfect, the only reason nothing is destroyed is because the buildings are reinforced. Not even on the richter scale this is possible

 

[Rocker1189]

A magnitude 4 is not capable of shaking buildings so massively

Yes I read the entire thing, we have no proof of:
lamps swinging violently, or utensils falling and other stuff like that and we see no window breaks or electricity poles moving. Nor do we see roads sustain any damage. The building shaking on its own works perfectly fine with 4 because we do not see much actually happen.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

lamps swinging violently, or utensils falling and other stuff like that and we see no window breaks or electricity poles moving. Nor do we see roads sustain any damage. The building shaking on its own works perfectly fine with 4 because we do not see much actually happen.

the only reason nothing is destroyed is because the buildings are reinforced

Seismic intensity	Reinforced-concrete buildings
5 Upper	-	Cracks may form in walls, crossbeams and pillars.

 

[Arkenis]

I am taking the feats and statements into account I am not sure what you mean by narrative, that would be like saying that we should put Saitama at tier 2 cause obviously he should be the strongest thing in the verse because he is the one punch man after all.

I'm talking about what's portrayed for the characters power in the narrative. Saitama isn't presented as a tier 2 character so he isn't.

How is it not portrayed based on anything I said. Just because a curse going all out can hurt him doesnt change the narratiev of him being the strongest curse based on a whole bunch of other stuff like speed and especially his abilities which makes his ridiculously strong. Sorry but this is vsbw, feats > statements >>>>> narrative.

Ok um maybe we got a different understanding of "strongest curse" but Sukuna's portrayal of being the strongest curse is not in any form based solely on his abilities, right now Sukuna's raw power is the majority of what makes him such a powerful curse, take his fingers for example, they are sought after by other curse due to the amount of power they hold within them, they can not be destroyed by Gojo the strongest sorcerer, his fingers are always growing stronger, and his power is feared by all curses. Now of course his abilities are really good but I don't remember it being implied that Sukuna's considered strong because he can cut things or because he's really fast.

And don't hand wave my importance for the narrative by saying "this is vsbw bro we take feats over everything".

 

[Arkenis]

what chapter did mahito cause earthquake?

 

[Rocker1189]

I'm talking about what's portrayed for the characters power in the narrative. Saitama isn't presented as a tier 2 character so he isn't.

Alright, explain how they are High 7-A, or 6-C via narrative.

Ok um maybe we got a different understanding of "strongest curse" but Sukuna's portrayal of being the strongest curse is not in any form based solely on his abilities,

I know he it is not solely via abilities he also has physical feats to prove he is physically the strongest curse and I have never denied that.

take his fingers for example, they are sought after by other curse due to the amount of power they hold within them, they can not be destroyed by Gojo the strongest sorcerer

And yet Gojo thinks that at full power he could defeat Sukuna despite being unable to destroy the fingers leads me to believe that the destruction of the fingers is more to do with some kind of hax that pure durability. After all he was defeated in the past.

Now of course his abilities are really good but I don't remember it being implied that Sukuna's considered strong because he can cut things or because he's really fast.

He is considered the strongest for multiple reasons all combined into one. That still doesnt mean he should be capable of tanking every attack without proof of it especially if said attack seems to be far above any feat he has shown.

And don't hand wave my importance for the narrative by saying "this is vsbw bro we take feats over everything".

If I was handwaving it I would not have a long answer and would do exactly that, hand wave it. Dont try to say I am handwaving something when that is less than a tenth of my reply.

 

[Rocker1189]

Seismic intensity	Reinforced-concrete buildings
5 Upper	-	Cracks may form in walls, crossbeams and pillars.

This proves nothing.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

what chapter did mahito cause earthquake?

Final Pages of chapter 128

This proves nothing.

But it shows that Upper Magnitude 5 earthquakes (5.5 and up) don’t affect well built earthquake resistant buildings

Idk maybe I’m missing something

 

[Arkenis]

Alright, explain how they are High 7-A, or 6-C via narrative.

I know you read when I said "don't limit the characters to just feats". So I'm ignoring this.

I know he it is not solely via abilities he also has physical feats to prove he is physically the strongest curse and I have never denied that.

Overall he is the strongest curse, in every aspect he is better, he dominates their abilities with his physicals alone, similar to what Gojo did to the trial meteor.

And yet Gojo thinks that at full power he could defeat Sukuna despite being unable to destroy the fingers leads me to believe that the destruction of the fingers is more to do with some kind of hax that pure durability. After all he was defeated in the past.

Him thinking that does not mean he can win based off ap alone. You and me both know Gojo being the strongest sorcerer is haxed based and his manipulation of curse energy. Also Gojo likely says that not because he thinks he can beat him but because he wants to give Yuji a sense of assurance that even if Yuji fails in his mission to stop Sukuna, Gojo will do it. Sukuna wasn't "defeated" he died from unknown circumstances as far as we know, unless the fanbook says something else which if it does pls send.

"It's that powerful of a curse" he's admitting here he's not strong enough to destroy them, nothing even alludes to it being due to hax.

He is considered the strongest for multiple reasons all combined into one. That still doesnt mean he should be capable of tanking every attack without proof of it especially if said attack seems to be far above any feat he has shown.

Once again, you can not say he's the strongest due to his abilities, where is that implied that he's considered strongest because of his cutting abilities and domain and poison resistance and etc?

If I was handwaving it I would not have a long answer and would do exactly that, hand wave it. Dont try to say I am handwaving something when that is less than a tenth of my reply.

Dude you said "this is vsbw feats>statements>>>>>>>narrative. Seems a bit handwavey when you could've said why you yourself think that, not use the website to justify yourself.

 

[Arkenis]

Final Pages of chapter 128

But it shows that Upper Magnitude 5 earthquakes (5.5 and up) don’t affect well built earthquake resistant buildings

Idk maybe I’m missing something

Oh nice, yea he's definitely shaking it, I'd say at least a block is being shook from it.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

This proves nothing.

Sorry... But, what? The poles/buildings are clearly moved in the scene and just weren't harmed because of the reinforcement. A building with reinforcement does not gain damage of a magnitude 5

 

[Arkenis]

Sorry... But, what? The poles/buildings are clearly moved in the scene and just weren't harmed because of the reinforcement. A building with reinforcement does not gain damage of a magnitude 5

what was the result for the body repel mahito did?

 

[Rocker1189]

I know you read when I said "don't limit the characters to just feats". So I'm ignoring this.

And I explained that feats are the main way we scale characters so you can ignore it but it doesnt change anything.

Overall he is the strongest curse, in every aspect he is better, he dominates their abilities with his physicals alone, similar to what Gojo did to the trial meteor.

In every aspect he is better yes, it doesnt mean he can tank everything they can throw at him. He hasnt dominated every ability with physicals alone unless you have a feat or statement for that.

Him thinking that does not mean he can win based off ap alone. You and me both know Gojo being the strongest sorcerer is haxed based and his manipulation of curse energy.

I never said he does win via ap alone, yet he still hasnt been able to destroy any of the fingers even with said abilities. So we can agree on Gojo's strength being hax based at least we are going somewhere.

Also Gojo likely says that not because he thinks he can beat him but because he wants to give Yuji a sense of assurance that even if Yuji fails in his mission to stop Sukuna, Gojo will do it.

You are just saying that there is no proof of this. As far as I know Gojo doesnt lie to anyone. Doesnt mean he couldnt be wrong but he is confident that he could beat a full power sukuna and nothing says otherwise so far. Sukuna who could here him did not deny it either. Else he would have outright stated that Gojo was wrong to cause Itadori even more despair.

Sukuna wasn't "defeated" he died from unknown circumstances as far as we know, unless the fanbook says something else which if it does pls send.

Good point, I do remember it being said he was defeated somehow but maybe I was wrong, doesnt change my core points though.

"It's that powerful of a curse" he's admitting here he's not strong enough to destroy them, nothing even alludes to it being due to hax.

How does that stop it from being hax, power relates to hax too.

Once again, you can not say he's the strongest due to his abilities, where is that implied that he's considered strongest because of his cutting abilities and domain and poison resistance and etc?

Literally all we have is that he is the most powerful curse. Which can be due to a myriad of things and a combination of all of them. It doesnt say he is the physically strongest curse. Or that no one can damage him in any way. Or anything like that and he even admits that he can be damaged (though yes he was not at full power).

Dude you said "this is vsbw feats>statements>>>>>>>narrative. Seems a bit handwavey when you could've said why you yourself think that, not use the website to justify yourself.

Yes I said that as a part of a big argument. I also said why I myself think that, not quite sure what you are trying to say with this. I have explained multiple times in this thread why I think people scale the way I think they do. This quote also applies to how I view fictional chars and their powers in general. In fact I was wrong saying this is vsbw. This is how things are done in general and I agree with it.

Sorry... But, what? The poles/buildings are clearly moved in the scene and just weren't harmed because of the reinforcement. A building with reinforcement does not gain damage of a magnitude 5

You know that with the fight directly below them, that the buildings above would have to shake a bit right? All we see is that they vibrate a little.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

You know that with the fight directly below them, that the buildings above would have to shake a bit right? All we see is that they vibrate a little.

I didn't understand anything you said and don't want to for now. I don't even know why I'm here (Holy shit, I hate procrastinating)

 

[Rocker1189]

I didn't understand anything you said and don't want to for now. I don't even know why I'm here (Holy shit, I hate procrastinating)

Its quite easy to understand, someone below me can punch the ceiling and shit would vibrate maybe a couple things fall depending on how strong said person is, but it sure wont be a magnitude 5 earthquake. I am of course being hyperbolic here, but point is that magnitude 4 works far better when we have such massively more support for it than magnitude 5 where we see one scene of vibrations to show impact.

 

[Arkenis]

And I explained that feats are the main way we scale characters so you can ignore it but it doesnt change anything.

In every aspect he is better yes, it doesnt mean he can tank everything they can throw at him. He hasnt dominated every ability with physicals alone unless you have a feat or statement for that.

I never said he does win via ap alone, yet he still hasnt been able to destroy any of the fingers even with said abilities. So we can agree on Gojo's strength being hax based at least we are going somewhere.

You are just saying that there is no proof of this. As far as I know Gojo doesnt lie to anyone. Doesnt mean he couldnt be wrong but he is confident that he could beat a full power sukuna and nothing says otherwise so far. Sukuna who could here him did not deny it either. Else he would have outright stated that Gojo was wrong to cause Itadori even more despair.

Good point, I do remember it being said he was defeated somehow but maybe I was wrong, doesnt change my core points though.

How does that stop it from being hax, power relates to hax too.

Literally all we have is that he is the most powerful curse. Which can be due to a myriad of things and a combination of all of them. It doesnt say he is the physically strongest curse. Or that no one can damage him in any way. Or anything like that and he even admits that he can be damaged (though yes he was not at full power).

Yes I said that as a part of a big argument. I also said why I myself think that, not quite sure what you are trying to say with this. I have explained multiple times in this thread why I think people scale the way I think they do. This quote also applies to how I view fictional chars and their powers in general. In fact I was wrong saying this is vsbw. This is how things are done in general and I agree with it.

You know that with the fight directly below them, that the buildings above would have to shake a bit right? All we see is that they vibrate a little.

Well regardless, I don't think Jogo being able to hurt 15 sukuna will be given to Jogo as a justification, so I'll just end this here.

 

[Rocker1189]

Well regardless, I don't think Jogo being able to hurt 15 sukuna will be given to Jogo as a justification, so I'll just end this here.

Thats fine. I never thought it should be a justification either. I think the meteor should scale seperately.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/quick-revision-about-jujutsu-kaisen.120377/post-3942331

Yeah

 

[Elixirr]

In the upcoming massive CRT, will we be addressing whether cursed energy can be used as a means to scale AP? i.e. Jogo can create an "iron mountain" using his cursed energy and since gojo scales WAY higher than him, he too should be able to create something much bigger than said "iron mountain"

I currently think that using cursed energy in terms of scaling is flawed, but I might change my mind once the CRT is made (or if any of you would like to explain)

 

[Arkenis]

In the upcoming massive CRT, will we be addressing whether cursed energy can be used as a means to scale AP? i.e. Jogo can create an "iron mountain" using his cursed energy and since gojo scales WAY higher than him, he too should be able to create something much bigger than said "iron mountain"

I currently think that using cursed energy in terms of scaling is flawed, but I might change my mind once the CRT is made (or if any of you would like to explain)

Did someone say he can create the same size? Or are you saying it follows due to being above jogo? iirc the reasoning for it was because Gojo's control of curse energy, like all elite sorcerers, he is able to utilize it all in a punch or kick. It was talked about with Yuta and Yuji.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Do I need to talk about Subsonic in the speed revision thread?

 

[Arkenis]

Do I need to talk about Subsonic in the speed revision thread?

NO.