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What calc is that?
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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1
- Thread starter PowerToScale
- Start date
Ped2018
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The problem here is that the Maki calc is propably wrong, but i do agree with you that if something in this series is an outlier it will be Chosos' beam, and not the other way around
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The argument that Choso could amp his attack with curse energy makes no sense as it is only possible by cursed energy and it's blatantly said that being amped is what gets it to SoS
We have a whole fight with Yuji struggling with SoS. We have Getou stating conventional weapons are a good choice. We have Nobara getting tagged by a rubber bullet before she can attack. Hanami getting tagged by what should be at most speed of sound Piercing Blood
We then have one hhs speed calc for Maki.
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By the way can I put Yuji's profile up?
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Just because the attack is slower than him that doesn't mean he's only barely faster than it. The thing about speed is that even slower things can tag faster ones due to distance and size. Not to mention that it's also just possible and likely from how it looks that Yuji is capable of moving faster than he himself can properly perceive at times. He not only blocks the shot the first time he interacts with it, but also manages to avoid it almost point-blank range. Yuji is also only ever hit when he's close to Choso, normally managing to avoid and react to the shot before then.
And right before Getou talks about conventional weapons he blocks a sniper shot. Once again, that's less about speed and more about the fact that shaman are humans and they lack that same invulnerability that curses have to conventional weaponry.
Also when does Hanami ever get tagged by Choso?
And while I agree that not everyone scales to Maki, because of her own statements at being one of the purest most powerful in terms of physical fighting in regards to the other students, using Nobaru getting hit isn't a good example since there was no indication the bullet was coming for her to pick up on.
Ped2018
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And the bullet was amped with cursed energy tho
Ped2018
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Like the dude said, he blocked it in the same scene, and it was amped with cursed energy, it would be wise to use against an AVARAGE sorcerer, like grade 3 or so
First: She was fighting with someone else and was not even looking at the bullet, i really don't know why do you want to use this example
Second: Rubber bullets are almost the the same speed as a normal bullet, and this was amped by Cursed Energy tho so don't even try to use the argument of being slower than normal bullets
What, are you referring to his fight against Kamo? Because if yes then tahat's stupid
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You're arguing Yuji is referring to an attack over 50 times slower than himself as too fast. Yuji dodging it at point blank much like Nanami reacting to Mahito point blank makes no sense if we disregard he was predicting it since that would mean he's faster than an attack that is actively pressuring him (he also doesn't dodge it fully and gets scratched). At what time does Yuji move faster than he himself can perceive?
A weapon 50 times slower than you is not effective.
Disregard that. I forgot Hanami was stopped by Inumaki. The bullet getting to Nobara before she could throw a hit is ridiculous for someone of her supposed speed since rubber bullets travel slower than the real deal and even if we argue it's enhanced by cursed energy we can't assume any speed for that.
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He never said average don't make things up.
Can a snail from several meters away get to you before you can throw several punches? Nope.
Rubber bullets travel at 60 m/s.
I already dropped that last bit about Kamo.
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I'm pretty darn sure Akutami didn't intend to have Maki be over 10 times the speed of sound then turn around and have a special grade say weapons are a good choice against him.
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Yes actually, because reacting to things isn't linear like that.
You do realize that humans by in large are actually 900 times faster than a snail right? Your analogy fails because the speed difference is much larger than the one that's being ascertained here. It is perfectly possible for someone to be hit by something slower than them even in the case of being 50 because of distance.
And once again, Nobaru didn't know the bullet was coming nor was she given any indication, so she couldn't react to it at all. Raindrops are slower than the average humans, yet we get hit by stray ones all the time before heavy rainfall starts because we have no idea they're coming towards us.
And he didn't say weapons were a good choice against him, he in fact actively disproves that by reacting just fine to the very weapons used against him. He said against sorcers because once again, they're humans. If a bullet hits them it can kill them due to how they're not invulnerable like curses.
Ped2018
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against SORCERERS please don't change the phrase, mildly-strong sorcerers can block bullets with their eyes closed
Like i said, the speed of sound thing sounds WAY more outlierish than the other way around
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I'm not arguing Nobara reacting to it. I'm arguing that a rubber bullet travelled several meters and hit Nobara before she could attack someone. We get hit by raindrops because we don't look at them yes but that's not what I'm arguing.
Is he not a sorcerer? Are Nanami, Yuji and Maki not sorcerers? You've still yet to prove how something 50x slower than you can be effective without it literally being point blank with you.
Is he not a sorcerer?
A character struggling with a stated speed from the author is more outlierish than a fan calculation? Really?
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Yuji only ever get hit when the shots were point blank though. No other time, even the first shot Yuji blocked. And once again, I said that I don't believe everyone should scale to Maki due to her clear superiority in the physical department. Your example is a bad one because she's not attacking at all, she's just reading up her attack, she's not hit mid swing.
And Geto actively proves that conventional weaponry isn't too good against him specificaly by blocking the bullet that's shot at him. So he's clearly not talking about himself in that equation.
And Geto actively proves that conventional weaponry isn't too good against him specificaly by blocking the bullet that's shot at him. So he's clearly not talking about himself in that equation.
Ped2018
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Of course it is because one is a goddamn feat and the other one is just a statement that i'm not even sure if Akutami is sure, i mean, just look at the phrase: "The blood, now reinforced with cursed energy, is SAID to reach the speed of sound" so not even the narrator himself confirms it
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Blatantly false. The first time he's hit is from several meters away and the time he got scratched literally has him timing it from several meters away and he barely dodges. So the windup for Nobara's swing is THAT long?
You can dodge an arrow but it is still an effective weapon against you.
One is a direct authorial statement and the other is only reaching hhs because of fan calcs. The fact that Akutami draws Nanami dodging Mahito point black even though he's inferior to him shows it's rule of cool
Ped2018
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hmmm, so Kamos' feat, Nanamis' feat and Makis' feat vs one half-assed statement
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That first shot, Yuji blocked just fine. And after that Yuji is only ever hit while in close proximity to Choso. So no, it's not blatantly false. And once again, Yuji is also shown to dodge that very attack at point-blank range, sure he timed it, but he only moved to dodge it just before it could land. Hence why I was talking about Yuji being actively faster than he can perceive at times.
And I don't know why you're bringing up arrows, that supports the point I was talking about earlier. Humans lack the invulnerability of cursed spirits so conventional weaponry works great against them.
And yeah, it's shown to just be that long. She raises her hammer back and is in clear thought before getting shot.
And I don't know why you're bringing up arrows, that supports the point I was talking about earlier. Humans lack the invulnerability of cursed spirits so conventional weaponry works great against them.
And yeah, it's shown to just be that long. She raises her hammer back and is in clear thought before getting shot.
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Oh yeah narration from the author is half assed because you don't agree with it. Nanami's feat makes no sense as it would mean he's faster than someone who beat him quite quickly in a 1v1. Fan calculations don't trump authorial intent and statements.
Yet Yuji described said attack as "too fast" and having "a 50/50 chance to dodge it". So Yuji timing an attack and barely scraping by it equals himsurpassing his own perception?
If I was 50 times faster than an arrow it wouldn't be effective against me in combat.
We even hear the bang as she's winding up. Nobara is apparently such a dumbass that she takes 50x as long to wind up a move than to actually throw the hit.
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Due give me one instance of an attack or weapon in JJK or real life being 50x slower than the target and without crazy aoe is an effective weapon against the target
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Ped2018
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Dude, just because he's the author doesn't mean that he always right, by your logic Jojo would be slower than light but with feats proving otherwise
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What light speed feats does he have? I'm not saying he's always right but the author's word and intent holds more weight than our calcs.
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Considering every speed feat you're talking about is only contradictory because of fan calcs and some of said feats make no sense and are contradicted by statements and feats then yes lets ignore the calcs that don't make sense for what the author is trying to imply.
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Okay first of all, she isn't shown to hear it. And it looks more like the word was just said, since not only is that Bang in a speech bubble but all the times we see after it, the presentation is much larger and darker in coloring.
Secondly, as much as I disagree with it, on the wiki and in a lot of debate circles in general, authorial intent is actively disregarded in favor of calcs or fans own interpretations.
And once more, what we're shown on screen is Yuji avoiding that very attack he talks about a number of times. And we often do break speed up into different things because there is a precendence for it. Just because you can perceive something that doesn't mean you can actually physically avoid it, the inverse should be plausible as well.
I do not have an instance in real life in which we're shown someone actively being harmed or damaged by something 50 times slower than them. But in turn I ask for you to provide evidence of the opposite a clear case where somone is harmed by something 50 times faster than them.
Ped2018
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but then we have guns who are faster the speed sound and people can easily dodge them, hell, they can even make it faster with Cursed Energy, i seriously can't
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Once again it makes no sense for Nobara's windup to be that big.
I believe that's wrong. If we ignore authorial intent 5% Deku would be 8A or something.
Yuji called it fast, Yuji says he has a 50/50 chance to dodge it. These statements don't make sense for a projectile 50x slower than the target and several meters away.
Why do I have to provide evidence to that? It's you're claim that a projectile being that much slower than it's target is still an effective weapon.
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What people easily dodge them? Getou?
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I don't believe Maki's feat is an outlier. I just do not believe the calculation is accurate. Much of pixel scaling relies on assumptions of time frames, distances, character sizes and relies on the essential hope that the artists are always drawing everything perfectly to scale down to the pixel. Because of this I tend to only consider pixel calculations when there is no in-universe lore or statements explaining the character's abilities.
Because we have clear statements about the speed of sound, as well as the notion that firearms being useful against shamans, that is where my perspective leans to.
Essentially I don't believe in HHS Maki, or MHS Nanami, so scaling Yuuji at Supersonic or Hypersonic isn't an issue to me.
Ped2018
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THIS
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If we're redoing it we have to update that muzzle velocity and perhaps redo the pixel scaling or wait for the anime version
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Whether or not you think so, that's how it looks.
And we do ignore authorial intent, the thing with Deku is just that he has consistent calcs around the tier he's currently placed in 5% and it was agreed upon to keep him there.
And I just explained why that's possible, and the reason why I'm asking that you provide evidence is because you yourself are saying that something 50% slower shouldn't be able to hit anyone without providing your own. And I'm sure you're not going to find any because there's a ver obscure speed in comparison to us in real life.
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So Nobara's fighting skills suddenly take nosedive for our calculations to make sense.
Yes but nothing disproves he's that strong. Horikoshi even has students directly state he's comparable if not superior to Bakugou who makes building sized blasts.
I never said 50% slower I said 50x. I can run at a cheetah and it can consistently react to that and stay away from me. That difference isn't even 20x. My claim barely needs backing because it's simply logic.
Ped2018
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Well, i hope they don't pull some bullshit like Sukuna punching Megumi
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Hmm?
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Okay so firstly, I've said multiple times that Nobara shouldn't scale to Maki. Secondly, that has nothing to do with skills, that's reliant on ones on mindset and movements.
And again, that's what was agreed upon here.
And apologies I said the wrong thing there, but my point still stands.
And again, that's what was agreed upon here.
And apologies I said the wrong thing there, but my point still stands.
Ped2018
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Sukuna punched Megumi 3 times in the anime
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So Nobara is over 10x slower than Maki and Yuji? How do you explain her fighting Mahito's clone? Any person halfway decent in a fight knows not to do large windups as that leaves you open and makes it easy to dodge.
I don't need to prove an attack 50x faster than you is a threat since after all bullets exist and the speed difference is even less
