Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Arkenis]

Do you understand that then it turns out that Yuji also has MHS +?

Literally have no problem with saying Yuji is that fast, he does scale to the high tiers as of right now and also kept up with Todo and Mahito. I think to discredit the amount of scaling since the good will arc just because piercing blood is explicitly said to reach the speed of sound and not that it is only capable of reaching the speed of sound. This would mean Maki who can move her hand at hhs and then Yuji scales above her and then people scale above yuji and so on instead of ignoring this, we should use this Choso can just amplify the speed of the piercing blood with curse energy unless we all just think Maki's feats an outlier. So basically using that sos statement for Choso and saying Yuji can just barely dodge it when that's only a sos attack yet his perception should be hhs at the very least for scaling above Maki.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

what about low 7-C origin of obedience finger bearer’s calc

What calc is that?

 

[Ped2018]

Literally have no problem with saying Yuji is that fast, he does scale to the high tiers as of right now and also kept up with Todo and Mahito. I think to discredit the amount of scaling since the good will arc just because piercing blood is explicitly said to reach the speed of sound and not that it is only capable of reaching the speed of sound. This would mean Maki who can move her hand at hhs and then Yuji scales above her and then people scale above yuji and so on instead of ignoring this, we should use this Choso can just amplify the speed of the piercing blood with curse energy unless we all just think Maki's feats an outlier. So basically using that sos statement for Choso and saying Yuji can just barely dodge it when that's only a sos attack yet his perception should be hhs at the very least for scaling above Maki.

The problem here is that the Maki calc is propably wrong, but i do agree with you that if something in this series is an outlier it will be Chosos' beam, and not the other way around

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Literally have no problem with saying Yuji is that fast, he does scale to the high tiers as of right now and also kept up with Todo and Mahito. I think to discredit the amount of scaling since the good will arc just because piercing blood is explicitly said to reach the speed of sound and not that it is only capable of reaching the speed of sound. This would mean Maki who can move her hand at hhs and then Yuji scales above her and then people scale above yuji and so on instead of ignoring this, we should use this Choso can just amplify the speed of the piercing blood with curse energy unless we all just think Maki's feats an outlier. So basically using that sos statement for Choso and saying Yuji can just barely dodge it when that's only a sos attack yet his perception should be hhs at the very least for scaling above Maki.

The argument that Choso could amp his attack with curse energy makes no sense as it is only possible by cursed energy and it's blatantly said that being amped is what gets it to SoS

We have a whole fight with Yuji struggling with SoS. We have Getou stating conventional weapons are a good choice. We have Nobara getting tagged by a rubber bullet before she can attack. Hanami getting tagged by what should be at most speed of sound Piercing Blood

We then have one hhs speed calc for Maki.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

By the way can I put Yuji's profile up?

 

[Ped2018]

do it, just make sure to have the current speed ratings for the verse, even if it's wrong we still have to be consistent with the other profiles

 

[Duedate8898]

The argument that Choso could amp his attack with curse energy makes no sense as it is only possible by cursed energy and it's blatantly said that being amped is what gets it to SoS

We have a whole fight with Yuji struggling with SoS. We have Getou stating conventional weapons are a good choice. We have Nobara getting tagged by a rubber bullet before she can attack. Hanami getting tagged by what should be at most speed of sound Piercing Blood

We then have one hhs speed calc for Maki.

Just because the attack is slower than him that doesn't mean he's only barely faster than it. The thing about speed is that even slower things can tag faster ones due to distance and size. Not to mention that it's also just possible and likely from how it looks that Yuji is capable of moving faster than he himself can properly perceive at times. He not only blocks the shot the first time he interacts with it, but also manages to avoid it almost point-blank range. Yuji is also only ever hit when he's close to Choso, normally managing to avoid and react to the shot before then.

And right before Getou talks about conventional weapons he blocks a sniper shot. Once again, that's less about speed and more about the fact that shaman are humans and they lack that same invulnerability that curses have to conventional weaponry.

Also when does Hanami ever get tagged by Choso?
And while I agree that not everyone scales to Maki, because of her own statements at being one of the purest most powerful in terms of physical fighting in regards to the other students, using Nobaru getting hit isn't a good example since there was no indication the bullet was coming for her to pick up on.

 

[Ped2018]

And right before Getou talks about conventional weapons he blocks a sniper shot

And the bullet was amped with cursed energy tho

 

[Ped2018]

We have Getou stating conventional weapons are a good choice.

Like the dude said, he blocked it in the same scene, and it was amped with cursed energy, it would be wise to use against an AVARAGE sorcerer, like grade 3 or so

We have Nobara getting tagged by a rubber bullet before she can attack.

First: She was fighting with someone else and was not even looking at the bullet, i really don't know why do you want to use this example

Second: Rubber bullets are almost the the same speed as a normal bullet, and this was amped by Cursed Energy tho so don't even try to use the argument of being slower than normal bullets

Hanami getting tagged by what should be at most speed of sound Piercing Blood

What, are you referring to his fight against Kamo? Because if yes then tahat's stupid

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Just because the attack is slower than him that doesn't mean he's only barely faster than it. The thing about speed is that even slower things can tag faster ones due to distance and size. Not to mention that it's also just possible and likely from how it looks that Yuji is capable of moving faster than he himself can properly perceive at times. He not only blocks the shot the first time he interacts with it, but also manages to avoid it almost point-blank range. Yuji is also only ever hit when he's close to Choso, normally managing to avoid and react to the shot before then.

And right before Getou talks about conventional weapons he blocks a sniper shot. Once again, that's less about speed and more about the fact that shaman are humans and they lack that same invulnerability that curses have to conventional weaponry.

Also when does Hanami ever get tagged by Choso?
And while I agree that not everyone scales to Maki, because of her own statements at being one of the purest most powerful in terms of physical fighting in regards to the other students, using Nobaru getting hit isn't a good example since there was no indication the bullet was coming for her to pick up on.

You're arguing Yuji is referring to an attack over 50 times slower than himself as too fast. Yuji dodging it at point blank much like Nanami reacting to Mahito point blank makes no sense if we disregard he was predicting it since that would mean he's faster than an attack that is actively pressuring him (he also doesn't dodge it fully and gets scratched). At what time does Yuji move faster than he himself can perceive?

A weapon 50 times slower than you is not effective.

Disregard that. I forgot Hanami was stopped by Inumaki. The bullet getting to Nobara before she could throw a hit is ridiculous for someone of her supposed speed since rubber bullets travel slower than the real deal and even if we argue it's enhanced by cursed energy we can't assume any speed for that.

 

[Ped2018]

What are proposing? That the Maki feat is an outlier? Even if the whole purpose of the feat was to show how fast she really is?!

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Like the dude said, he blocked it in the same scene, and it was amped with cursed energy, it would be wise to use against an AVARAGE sorcerer, like grade 3 or so

First: She was fighting with someone else and was not even looking at the bullet, i really don't know why do you want to use this example

Second: Rubber bullets are almost the the same speed as a normal bullet, and this was amped by Cursed Energy tho so don't even try to use the argument of being slower than normal bullets

What, are you referring to his fight against Kamo? Because if yes then tahat's stupid

He never said average don't make things up.

Can a snail from several meters away get to you before you can throw several punches? Nope.

Rubber bullets travel at 60 m/s.

I already dropped that last bit about Kamo.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

What are proposing? That the Maki feat is an outlier? Even if the whole purpose of the feat was to show how fast she really is?!

I'm pretty darn sure Akutami didn't intend to have Maki be over 10 times the speed of sound then turn around and have a special grade say weapons are a good choice against him.

 

[Duedate8898]

He never said average don't make things up.

Can a snail from several meters away get to you before you can throw several punches? Nope.

Rubber bullets travel at 60 m/s.

I already dropped that last bit about Kamo.

Yes actually, because reacting to things isn't linear like that.
You do realize that humans by in large are actually 900 times faster than a snail right? Your analogy fails because the speed difference is much larger than the one that's being ascertained here. It is perfectly possible for someone to be hit by something slower than them even in the case of being 50 because of distance.
And once again, Nobaru didn't know the bullet was coming nor was she given any indication, so she couldn't react to it at all. Raindrops are slower than the average humans, yet we get hit by stray ones all the time before heavy rainfall starts because we have no idea they're coming towards us.

I'm pretty darn sure Akutami didn't intend to have Maki be over 10 times the speed of sound then turn around and have a special grade say weapons are a good choice against him.

And he didn't say weapons were a good choice against him, he in fact actively disproves that by reacting just fine to the very weapons used against him. He said against sorcers because once again, they're humans. If a bullet hits them it can kill them due to how they're not invulnerable like curses.

 

[Ped2018]

against him.

against SORCERERS please don't change the phrase, mildly-strong sorcerers can block bullets with their eyes closed


Like i said, the speed of sound thing sounds WAY more outlierish than the other way around

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Yes actually, because reacting to things isn't linear like that.
You do realize that humans by in large are actually 900 times faster than a snail right? Your analogy fails because the speed difference is much larger than the one that's being ascertained here. It is perfectly possible for someone to be hit by something slower than them even in the case of being 50 because of distance.
And once again, Nobaru didn't know the bullet was coming nor was she given any indication, so she couldn't react to it at all. Raindrops are slower than the average humans, yet we get hit by stray ones all the time before heavy rainfall starts because we have no idea they're coming towards us.

And he didn't say weapons were a good choice against him, he in fact actively disproves that by reacting just fine to the very weapons used against him. He said against sorcers because once again, they're humans. If a bullet hits them it can kill them due to how they're not invulnerable like curses.

I'm not arguing Nobara reacting to it. I'm arguing that a rubber bullet travelled several meters and hit Nobara before she could attack someone. We get hit by raindrops because we don't look at them yes but that's not what I'm arguing.

Is he not a sorcerer? Are Nanami, Yuji and Maki not sorcerers? You've still yet to prove how something 50x slower than you can be effective without it literally being point blank with you.

against SORCERERS please don't change the phrase, mildly-strong sorcerers can block bullets with their eyes closed


Like i said, the speed of sound thing sounds WAY more outlierish than the other way around

Is he not a sorcerer?

A character struggling with a stated speed from the author is more outlierish than a fan calculation? Really?

 

[Duedate8898]

Yuji only ever get hit when the shots were point blank though. No other time, even the first shot Yuji blocked. And once again, I said that I don't believe everyone should scale to Maki due to her clear superiority in the physical department. Your example is a bad one because she's not attacking at all, she's just reading up her attack, she's not hit mid swing.

And Geto actively proves that conventional weaponry isn't too good against him specificaly by blocking the bullet that's shot at him. So he's clearly not talking about himself in that equation.

 

[Ped2018]

A character struggling with a stated speed from the author is more outlierish than a fan calculation? Really?

Of course it is because one is a goddamn feat and the other one is just a statement that i'm not even sure if Akutami is sure, i mean, just look at the phrase: "The blood, now reinforced with cursed energy, is SAID to reach the speed of sound" so not even the narrator himself confirms it

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Yuji only ever get hit when the shots were point blank though. No other time, even the first shot Yuji blocked. And once again, I said that I don't believe everyone should scale to Maki due to her clear superiority in the physical department. Your example is a bad one because she's not attacking at all, she's just reading up her attack, she's not hit mid swing.

And Geto actively proves that conventional weaponry isn't too good against him specificaly by blocking the bullet that's shot at him. So he's clearly not talking about himself in that equation.

Blatantly false. The first time he's hit is from several meters away and the time he got scratched literally has him timing it from several meters away and he barely dodges. So the windup for Nobara's swing is THAT long?

You can dodge an arrow but it is still an effective weapon against you.

Of course it is because one is a goddamn feat and the other one is just a statement that i'm not even sure if Akutami is sure, i mean, just look at the phrase: "The blood, now reinforced with cursed energy, is SAID to reach the speed of sound" so not even the narrator himself confirms it

One is a direct authorial statement and the other is only reaching hhs because of fan calcs. The fact that Akutami draws Nanami dodging Mahito point black even though he's inferior to him shows it's rule of cool

 

[Ped2018]

One is a direct authorial statement and the other is only reaching hhs because of fan calcs. The fact that Akutami draws Nanami dodging Mahito point black even though he's inferior to him shows it's rule of cool

hmmm, so Kamos' feat, Nanamis' feat and Makis' feat vs one half-assed statement

 

[Duedate8898]

That first shot, Yuji blocked just fine. And after that Yuji is only ever hit while in close proximity to Choso. So no, it's not blatantly false. And once again, Yuji is also shown to dodge that very attack at point-blank range, sure he timed it, but he only moved to dodge it just before it could land. Hence why I was talking about Yuji being actively faster than he can perceive at times.

And I don't know why you're bringing up arrows, that supports the point I was talking about earlier. Humans lack the invulnerability of cursed spirits so conventional weaponry works great against them.

And yeah, it's shown to just be that long. She raises her hammer back and is in clear thought before getting shot.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

hmmm, so Kamos' feat, Nanamis' feat and Makis' feat vs one half-assed statement

Oh yeah narration from the author is half assed because you don't agree with it. Nanami's feat makes no sense as it would mean he's faster than someone who beat him quite quickly in a 1v1. Fan calculations don't trump authorial intent and statements.

That first shot, Yuji blocked just fine. And after that Yuji is only ever hit while in close proximity to Choso. So no, it's not blatantly false. And once again, Yuji is also shown to dodge that very attack at point-blank range, sure he timed it, but he only moved to dodge it just before it could land. Hence why I was talking about Yuji being actively faster than he can perceive at times.

And I don't know why you're bringing up arrows, that supports the point I was talking about earlier. Humans lack the invulnerability of cursed spirits so conventional weaponry works great against them.

And yeah, it's shown to just be that long. She raises her hammer back and is in clear thought before getting shot.

Yet Yuji described said attack as "too fast" and having "a 50/50 chance to dodge it". So Yuji timing an attack and barely scraping by it equals himsurpassing his own perception?

If I was 50 times faster than an arrow it wouldn't be effective against me in combat.

We even hear the bang as she's winding up. Nobara is apparently such a dumbass that she takes 50x as long to wind up a move than to actually throw the hit.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Due give me one instance of an attack or weapon in JJK or real life being 50x slower than the target and without crazy aoe is an effective weapon against the target

 

[Ped2018]

Oh yeah narration from the author is half assed because you don't agree with it. Nanami's feat makes no sense as it would mean he's faster than someone who beat him quite quickly in a 1v1. Fan calculations don't trump authorial intent and statements.

Dude, just because he's the author doesn't mean that he always right, by your logic Jojo would be slower than light but with feats proving otherwise

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Dude, just because he's the author doesn't mean that he always right, by your logic Jojo would be slower than light but with feats proving otherwise

What light speed feats does he have? I'm not saying he's always right but the author's word and intent holds more weight than our calcs.

 

[Ped2018]

But then we gonna ignore half (or even more) of the speed feats of the entire series just because the author doesn't have knowledge about speed?!

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

But then we gonna ignore half (or even more) of the speed feats of the entire series just because the author doesn't have knowledge about speed?!

Considering every speed feat you're talking about is only contradictory because of fan calcs and some of said feats make no sense and are contradicted by statements and feats then yes lets ignore the calcs that don't make sense for what the author is trying to imply.

 

[Duedate8898]

Oh yeah narration from the author is half assed because you don't agree with it. Nanami's feat makes no sense as it would mean he's faster than someone who beat him quite quickly in a 1v1. Fan calculations don't trump authorial intent and statements.


Yet Yuji described said attack as "too fast" and having "a 50/50 chance to dodge it". So Yuji timing an attack and barely scraping by it equals himsurpassing his own perception?

If I was 50 times faster than an arrow it wouldn't be effective against me in combat.

We even hear the bang as she's winding up. Nobara is apparently such a dumbass that she takes 50x as long to wind up a move than to actually throw the hit.

Okay first of all, she isn't shown to hear it. And it looks more like the word was just said, since not only is that Bang in a speech bubble but all the times we see after it, the presentation is much larger and darker in coloring.

Secondly, as much as I disagree with it, on the wiki and in a lot of debate circles in general, authorial intent is actively disregarded in favor of calcs or fans own interpretations.

And once more, what we're shown on screen is Yuji avoiding that very attack he talks about a number of times. And we often do break speed up into different things because there is a precendence for it. Just because you can perceive something that doesn't mean you can actually physically avoid it, the inverse should be plausible as well.

I do not have an instance in real life in which we're shown someone actively being harmed or damaged by something 50 times slower than them. But in turn I ask for you to provide evidence of the opposite a clear case where somone is harmed by something 50 times faster than them.

 

[Ped2018]

Considering every speed feat you're talking about is only contradictory because of fan calcs and some of said feats make no sense and are contradicted by statements and feats then yes lets ignore the calcs that don't make sense for what the author is trying to imply.

but then we have guns who are faster the speed sound and people can easily dodge them, hell, they can even make it faster with Cursed Energy, i seriously can't

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Okay first of all, she isn't shown to hear it. And it looks more like the word was just said, since not only is that Bang in a speech bubble but all the times we see after it, the presentation is much larger and darker in coloring.

Secondly, as much as I disagree with it, on the wiki and in a lot of debate circles in general, authorial intent is actively disregarded in favor of calcs or fans own interpretations.

And once more, what we're shown on screen is Yuji avoiding that very attack he talks about a number of times. And we often do break speed up into different things because there is a precendence for it. Just because you can perceive something that doesn't mean you can actually physically avoid it, the inverse should be plausible as well.

I do not have an instance in real life in which we're shown someone actively being harmed or damaged by something 50 times slower than them. But in turn I ask for you to provide evidence of the opposite a clear case where somone is harmed by something 50 times faster than them.

Once again it makes no sense for Nobara's windup to be that big.

I believe that's wrong. If we ignore authorial intent 5% Deku would be 8A or something.

Yuji called it fast, Yuji says he has a 50/50 chance to dodge it. These statements don't make sense for a projectile 50x slower than the target and several meters away.

Why do I have to provide evidence to that? It's you're claim that a projectile being that much slower than it's target is still an effective weapon.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

but then we have guns who are faster the speed sound and people can easily dodge them, hell, they can even make it faster with Cursed Energy, i seriously can't

What people easily dodge them? Getou?

 

[RageComment]

Literally have no problem with saying Yuji is that fast, he does scale to the high tiers as of right now and also kept up with Todo and Mahito. I think to discredit the amount of scaling since the good will arc just because piercing blood is explicitly said to reach the speed of sound and not that it is only capable of reaching the speed of sound. This would mean Maki who can move her hand at hhs and then Yuji scales above her and then people scale above yuji and so on instead of ignoring this, we should use this Choso can just amplify the speed of the piercing blood with curse energy unless we all just think Maki's feats an outlier. So basically using that sos statement for Choso and saying Yuji can just barely dodge it when that's only a sos attack yet his perception should be hhs at the very least for scaling above Maki.

I don't believe Maki's feat is an outlier. I just do not believe the calculation is accurate. Much of pixel scaling relies on assumptions of time frames, distances, character sizes and relies on the essential hope that the artists are always drawing everything perfectly to scale down to the pixel. Because of this I tend to only consider pixel calculations when there is no in-universe lore or statements explaining the character's abilities.

Because we have clear statements about the speed of sound, as well as the notion that firearms being useful against shamans, that is where my perspective leans to.

Essentially I don't believe in HHS Maki, or MHS Nanami, so scaling Yuuji at Supersonic or Hypersonic isn't an issue to me.

 

[Ped2018]

I don't believe Maki's feat is an outlier. I just do not believe the calculation is accurate. Much of pixel scaling relies on assumptions of time frames, distances, character sizes and relies on the essential hope that the artists are always drawing everything perfectly to scale down to the pixel. Because of this I tend to only consider pixel calculations when there is no in-universe lore or statements explaining the character's abilities.

Because we have clear statements about the speed of sound, as well as the notion that firearms being useful against shamans, that is where my perspective leans to.

Essentially I don't believe in HHS Maki, or MHS Nanami, so scaling Yuuji at Supersonic or Hypersonic isn't an issue to me.

THIS

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I don't believe Maki's feat is an outlier. I just do not believe the calculation is accurate. Much of pixel scaling relies on assumptions of time frames, distances, character sizes and relies on the essential hope that the artists are always drawing everything perfectly to scale down to the pixel. Because of this I tend to only consider pixel calculations when there is no in-universe lore or statements explaining the character's abilities.

Because we have clear statements about the speed of sound, as well as the notion that firearms being useful against shamans, that is where my perspective leans to.

Essentially I don't believe in HHS Maki, or MHS Nanami, so scaling Yuuji at Supersonic or Hypersonic isn't an issue to me.

If we're redoing it we have to update that muzzle velocity and perhaps redo the pixel scaling or wait for the anime version

 

[Duedate8898]

Once again it makes no sense for Nobara's windup to be that big.

I believe that's wrong. If we ignore authorial intent 5% Deku would be 8A or something.

Yuji called it fast, Yuji says he has a 50/50 chance to dodge it. These statements don't make sense for a projectile 50x slower than the target and several meters away.

Why do I have to provide evidence to that? It's you're claim that a projectile being that much slower than it's target is still an effective weapon.

Whether or not you think so, that's how it looks.

And we do ignore authorial intent, the thing with Deku is just that he has consistent calcs around the tier he's currently placed in 5% and it was agreed upon to keep him there.

And I just explained why that's possible, and the reason why I'm asking that you provide evidence is because you yourself are saying that something 50% slower shouldn't be able to hit anyone without providing your own. And I'm sure you're not going to find any because there's a ver obscure speed in comparison to us in real life.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Whether or not you think so, that's how it looks.

And we do ignore authorial intent, the thing with Deku is just that he has consistent calcs around the tier he's currently placed in 5% and it was agreed upon to keep him there.

And I just explained why that's possible, and the reason why I'm asking that you provide evidence is because you yourself are saying that something 50% slower shouldn't be able to hit anyone without providing your own. And I'm sure you're not going to find any because there's a ver obscure speed in comparison to us in real life.

So Nobara's fighting skills suddenly take nosedive for our calculations to make sense.

Yes but nothing disproves he's that strong. Horikoshi even has students directly state he's comparable if not superior to Bakugou who makes building sized blasts.

I never said 50% slower I said 50x. I can run at a cheetah and it can consistently react to that and stay away from me. That difference isn't even 20x. My claim barely needs backing because it's simply logic.

 

[Ped2018]

wait for the anime version

Well, i hope they don't pull some bullshit like Sukuna punching Megumi

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Well, i hope they don't pull some bullshit like Sukuna punching Megumi

Hmm?

 

[Duedate8898]

Okay so firstly, I've said multiple times that Nobara shouldn't scale to Maki. Secondly, that has nothing to do with skills, that's reliant on ones on mindset and movements.

And again, that's what was agreed upon here.

And apologies I said the wrong thing there, but my point still stands.

 

[Ped2018]

Hmm?

Sukuna punched Megumi 3 times in the anime