Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[LIFE_OF_KING]

high hyper is goood

Well, its not canon, so not worth

 

[Maitreya12]

Ryu didn't get that privilage, he simply gets diced no mention of it being cleave or dismantle and it would make logical sense if sukuna used cleave to rip Ryu's dome apart since the first shot he used didn't go beyond skin deep while the second turned the mans skull into a 3 piece meal.

I don’t know what the argument totally is but yeah Sukuna definitely used cleave to one shot Ryu.

Dismantle is kind of the “baseline” attack Sukuna uses which is for inanimate objects while Cleave is the “heavy” attack meant for cursed objects that can be adjusted in power as it attacks. So when Sukuna says he’s not gonna take Ryu lightly anymore or whatever I think that’s a good indication he’s using cleave instead of dismantle.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I have been wondering to ask. Do we consider all Curses has souls just like Mahito? Because Idk he is a special case

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Soul Katana cutting curses

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Soul Katana cutting curses

To be specific Curses who are natural born Instead of vengeance like Naoya & Rika.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Well, If curses without soul are real I think Gege would have explained It with details instead of creating so many contradictions

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Should we clear up Gojos Wins & Loses in his profile? Currently he has a different rating so

 

[Sir_sun_man]

It is obviously stated and Shown CT has more AP than CE output. check the can what happened to CE blast and CT usage.
https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/012.0/compressed/j014.jpg

Nothing here even remotely states anything about power output differences, the whole explanation is centered around application and precision. Hell, even the whole explanation of "electricity" to "electrical appliances" let’s take all three of the example appliances in the panel, a microwave, a hair drier and a vacuum cleaner would you say any one of them has a superior power output to the electricity poured into them to make them work? you could have a point with a microwave but it is more related to the actual application of microwaves themselves as it is radiation and less pure power like an electrical voltage. Unless a CT is outright stated to be able to push out more power and have higher output than regular CE use the difference in a CT would be its application, say ratio which creates weak spots allowing for 120% the damage output of regular CE strikes

No his default Slash is dismantle. Also CT output can vary. It doesn't need to Sukuna to be going all out on first instance. Even if you say it was cleave it has a max limit otherwise Gojo would have sliced to pieces if it was just hax

eh we don't know if dismantle does have a varying output all we know about it is this
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjktcb_119_01.jpg
dismantle is a default attack it doesn't seem to have different levels of output, while cleave is outright stated to be the one used to cut down the enemy in one fell swoop something that happens to Ryu.

Agree to disagree with this then. I don't see any reason for Sukuna using Cleave here when default dismantle already does the damage.
Also read the above argument. Cleave also has a limit.

His CT and Non CT blasts are same ofcourse because other Sorcerers don't use CE blasts. Except Max Uzumaki and Rika

not stated to be the same, they are stated to be the same in power, but more than likely different in applicationYes but we already have Max Uzumaki, Rika who can fire CE blasts like Ryu

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

What character do yall think is seriously underrated in terms of powerscaling?

For me its definitely Hanami. She gets overshadowed hard by Jogo and Mahito but she is also a monster. Obviously she is really durable (above both Jogo and Curse Naoya) but she also has ludicrous endurance, being able to take five black flashes from a guy who's normal punches where already enough to hurt her. Her cursed technique has the AP to seriously damage herself and she has access to techniques like the flower field that stuns people, buds that drain CE, domain expansion and domain amplification (along with only like 3 other people in the verse)

Ngl I hate that bitch. If It wasnt for the statement about her/him being more durable I could easly put Jogoat above Kenjaku in raw CE

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Yes but we already have Max Uzumaki, Rika who can fire CE blasts like Ryu. Compared to them Ryus output in CE is greater. But Narrator or Character never stated anything about it also applies to CT Output.

Nowhere stated or implied Ryu output is close to Sukuna overall.

The highest in history would include Sukuna too

To put it simply.
CE output Blasts ≠ CT output

Depends on the CT and if it is outright stated that it has higher output

Striking Power imbued with CE ≠ CE blasts output

considering that both yuta and Ryu where able to stop those blasts with their bare hands and where outputing similar levels of damage to one another through CQC

CT AP ≠ CE output .

Again dependant on the CT and if its outright stated that the CT has higher output

Ryu blasts were stringer than Rikas blasts but Rika physicals were stronger than that CE blast. Additionally let's not forget Ryu and Rika striking Power does more damage on them than his CE blasts.

Ryu was never hit directly by her blasts and was able to push out more damage with one of his punches to Rika than his blasts did which would also apply to the CT output being similar to CE output again only different application and precision

So I obviously Disagree with Ryu greatest output of CE blasts is taken out of context to scale others to him.

I disagree

 

[Spinoirr]

Now that Gojos profile has been updated we need to update all the other profiles in turn

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Nothing here even remotely states anything about power output differences, the whole explanation is centered around application and precision. Hell, even the whole explanation of "electricity" to "electrical appliances" let’s take all three of the example appliances in the panel, a microwave, a hair drier and a vacuum cleaner would you say any one of them has a superior power output to the electricity poured into them to make them work? you could have a point with a microwave but it is more related to the actual application of microwaves themselves as it is radiation and less pure power like an electrical voltage. Unless a CT is outright stated to be able to push out more power and have higher output than regular CE use the difference in a CT would be its application, say ratio which creates weak spots allowing for 120% the damage output of regular CE strikes

It doesn't matter. Gojos CE blasts < His CT.
There are different types of CT so it depends nonetheless not all characters fires CE blast. Narrator clearly mentioned CE blasts output Ryu has highest output not for anything else. Characters with good Reinforcement and striking Power like Rika can literally content with Ryus output.

eh we don't know if dismantle does have a varying output all we know about it is this
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjktcb_119_01.jpg
dismantle is a default attack it doesn't seem to have different levels of output, while cleave is outright stated to be the one used to cut down the enemy in one fell swoop something that happens to Ryu.

Megumi reducing CT Output of Dismantle Cough cough

not stated to be the same, they are stated to be the same in power, but more than likely different in applicationYes but we already have Max Uzumaki, Rika who can fire CE blasts like Ryu

Why are you repeating what I said?

The highest in history would include Sukuna too

Funny thing in that same I heard bullshit Kenjaku says Sukuna was the strongest and it's undisputable.

Depends on the CT and if it is outright stated that it has higher output

No author spoon feeds everything. If CE blast is more better than CT output character would spam that like Rika & max Uzumaki. Not all characters are like that So AP differs

considering that both yuta and Ryu where able to stop those blasts with their bare hands and where outputing similar levels of damage to one another through CQC

This just proves my point.
CE blast output has nothing to do with CE output.

Again dependant on the CT and if its outright stated that the CT has higher output

Yeah depends on CT doesn't mean every character uses Cursed Energy blast.
Uraume CT is not based on Cursed Energy blast like Rika and Uzumaki. You can only argue for Ryus Output being higher based on Characters with CE blast not for everyone who has CT.

Ryu was never hit directly by her blasts and was able to push out more damage with one of his punches to Rika than his blasts did which would also apply to the CT output being similar to CE output again only different application and precision

Ryu hit with his own blast which was stronger than Rikas Blast Narrative statement. Idk where I mentioned Ryu got hit with Rikas Blast?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Ryu > 20F Sukuna ~ Gojo fr

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Ryu > 20F Sukuna ~ Gojo fr

not the argument

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

not the argument

Highest CE output = AP right
20F Sukuna ~ Gojo
So Ryus AP Should scale to them

The highest in history would include Sukuna too

Your own words

 

[Sir_sun_man]

It doesn't matter. Gojos CE blasts < His CT.

Yeah cuse gojos CT is pure hax, push and pull and outright matter/void manipulation of course it will have different effects.

There are different types of CT so it depends nonetheless not all characters fires CE blast.

yeah CTs are all about application and manipulation, most of the time their power is lesser than CE output funnily enough

Narrator clearly mentioned CE blasts output Ryu has highest output not for anything else. Characters with good Reinforcement and striking Power like Rika can literally content with Ryus output.

Yuta and rika were able to contend with his CT and CE output due to their unnaturally high CE reserves hell even Ryu points it out for us.

Megumi reducing CT Output of Dismantle Cough cough

he was reducing everything not just CT output but output as a whole as well as movement

It is well known that both TCB and VIZ ****** that translation up big time, hence why we don't scale maki to sukuna in speed since the body movement was also effected which both translations fail to acccount for and hell even if we go by the Viz translation which you count as more official (even if its pretty bad) it specifically states that his CE output is hampered not his CT output so moot point.

Funny thing in that same I heard bullshit Kenjaku says Sukuna was the strongest and it's undisputable.

sukuna not having the highest output ever doesn't mean he isn't the strongest.

No author spoon feeds everything. If CE blast is more better than CT output character would spam that like Rika & max Uzumaki. Not all characters are like that So AP differs

CT's are not purely AP its about their usefullness and overall effectiveness in combat, Hell would you say that Naobito would just flat out stop using projection sorcery if he could use something akin to a CE blast (which btw not every character can use in the first place)? no and even if he could use both he'd still stick to projection sorcery since not everyone has infinite CE pools.

This just proves my point.
CE blast output has nothing to do with CE output.

no it means they are in the same ball park my man, if a character can hit you with a blast of energy that rips you up and then proceeds to use that same energy to impower themselves to dish out similar if not greater levels of damage that means that the two abilities are quite comperable.

Yeah depends on CT doesn't mean every character uses Cursed Energy blast.
Uraume CT is not based on Cursed Energy blast like Rika and Uzumaki. You can only argue for Ryus Output being higher based on Characters with CE blast not for everyone who has CT.

considering that CE blasts are entirely reliant on CE in the first place, ya know that same CE used to impower and provide higher striking power output it would scale to almost everyone.

Ryu hit with his own blast which was stronger than Rikas Blast Narrative statement. Idk where I mentioned Ryu got hit with Rikas Blast?

"Ryu blasts were stringer than Rikas blasts but Rika physicals were stronger than that CE blast." the thing isn't that you said he was hit it was that you where compering said things my good man.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@SunDaGamer

• Yuta
• Kenjaku
• Geto

AP , Durability and Striking strength should be rewritten. I don't know how to put the explanation. Can you update them? Reasoning is Rika Scaling to JJK0 Gojo. Kenjaku scaling to Geto in Physicals.

Humbled One Profile update

Gojos profile is outdated and has no scans for few abilities. AP section is shit. So here is the replacement Big Thanks to @SunDaGamer for helping me with this Sandbox Current Gojos Profile Updated Sandbox Additional Scaling for other characters Please don't discuss on who wins or loses...

vsbattles.com

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Highest CE output = AP right
20F Sukuna ~ Gojo
So Ryus AP Should scale to them

yeah AP wise
not durability wise
not speed wise
not hax wise
not endurance wise


His whole shtick is big AP go boom, his other stats on the other hand are shit in comperison to gojo and sukuna who both have a similar if lower output but literally have all of their other stats dwarfing Ryu by a country mile

 

[Outcast]

Idk about Ryo's AP scaling to Gojo and Sukuna. Higher CE output /=/ Higher AP.. Ryo specifically notes that Yuta didnt have an impressive output, but we know that Yutas AP is pretty high.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

yeah AP wise
not durability wise
not speed wise
not hax wise
not endurance wise


His whole shtick is big AP go boom, his other stats on the other hand are shit in comperison to gojo and sukuna who both have a similar if lower output but literally have all of their other stats dwarfing Ryu by a country mile

Make a thread I'm done arguing. i already repeated the same multiple times arguments are repeating. I don't want to go in circles. Let's see how many would agree with Ryu AP > Sukuna & Gojo

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Idk about Ryo's AP scaling to Gojo and Sukuna. Higher CE output /=/ Higher AP.. Ryo specifically notes that Yuta didnt have an impressive output, but we know that Yutas AP is pretty high.

Depends on the translation (still need to go through raws proper), Viz says his output is not impressive while TCB says it "isn't that bad"

Plus Rikas blast is said to be slightly weaker than Ryu's in output

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Idk about Ryo's AP scaling to Gojo and Sukuna. Higher CE output /=/ Higher AP.. Ryo specifically notes that Yuta didnt have an impressive output, but we know that Yutas AP is pretty high.

Yeah funny Ryu blasts were Tanked By Yuta while Yuta couldn't even tank an attack from Gojo and had to puke.
https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_231_002.png

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Make a thread I'm done arguing. i already repeated the same multiple times arguments are repeating. I don't want to go in circles. Let's see how many would agree with Ryu AP > Sukuna & Gojo

I care not for popular opinion, I only care for what is actually written.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I care not for popular opinion, I only care for what is actually written.

I'm not suggesting you to care. I was talking about your misinterpretation getting accepted in the wiki.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Yeah funny Ryu blasts were Tanked By Yuta while Yuta couldn't even tank an attack from Gojo and had to puke.
https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_231_002.png

yeah cuse its hax my man, its not pure power.

and then again the one time yuta was hit by a granite blast at point blank his arm got shredded.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

I'm not suggesting you to care. I was talking about your misinterpretation getting accepted in the wiki.

well that is for later CRT, again I want the actual statements in the seriouse to be properly understood instead of being thrown to the side for no reason

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Now that Gojos profile has been updated we need to update all the other profiles in turn

I have plans but JJK AP & Speed calculation gets changed occasionally. So it's kinda problem now

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Well, its not canon, so not worth

why? anime is a secondary source since Gege is overseeing it and the scene doesn't contradict anything since we have a cut in the middle of the father son bout that leave a lot of things up in the air

 

[M3X_2.0]

just give up man

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

why? anime is a secondary source since Gege is overseeing it and the scene doesn't contradict anything since we have a cut in the middle of the father son bout that leave a lot of things up in the air

If Milly CRT get accepted, I will post the calc. But until then, meh

 

[Sir_sun_man]

just give up man

??
What do you even mean here?
We agreed that the vast majority of Jogo feats can't be used because they contradict the primary source due to the damage caused to shibuya, The rabbit speed feat contradicts exactly nothing.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

If Milly CRT get accepted, I will post the calc. But until then, meh

fair

 

[SunDaGamer]

yeah cuse its hax my man, its not pure power.

Hax bypasses physical stats, if Blue was hax then Yuta would've been eviscerated

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Hax bypasses physical stats, if Blue was hax then Yuta would've been eviscerated

depends on the hax, not every single ability just outright negates durability, gravity manipulation for example doesn't just outright eviscerate somebody of a comparable durability and AP to its actual power, similar but different thing applies here


Due to how blue works it creates a negative space where ever its deployed creating a pulling effect that pulls everything into its radius and with Gojo basically gut punching Yuta and Hakari (cuse you'd not be vomiting from a jab to the jaw) their inside would be experiencing a lot of movement towards Gojo’s fists and at the moment of impact it would create a sudden stop with the counter force of the punch, causing their insides to move quite a bit and I hope I don't need to explain why that would cause you to throw up.

 

[JnSteHar002]

If Milly CRT get accepted, I will post the calc. But until then, meh

Any chance I can get a link to that?

 

[SunDaGamer]

Due to how blue works it creates a negative space where ever its deployed creating a pulling effect that pulls everything into its radius and with Gojo basically gut punching Yuta and Hakari (cuse you'd not be vomiting from a jab to the jaw) their inside would be experiencing a lot of movement towards Gojo’s fists and at the moment of impact it would create a sudden stop with the counter force of the punch, causing their insides to move quite a bit and I hope I don't need to explain why that would cause you to throw up.

That's not hax, that's just punching harder with extra steps

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@SunDaGamer

• Yuta
• Kenjaku
• Geto

AP , Durability and Striking strength should be rewritten. I don't know how to put the explanation. Can you update them? Reasoning is Rika Scaling to JJK0 Gojo. Kenjaku scaling to Geto in Physicals.

Humbled One Profile update

Gojos profile is outdated and has no scans for few abilities. AP section is shit. So here is the replacement Big Thanks to @SunDaGamer for helping me with this Sandbox Current Gojos Profile Updated Sandbox Additional Scaling for other characters Please don't discuss on who wins or loses...

vsbattles.com

^

snip

Current AP Justification sucks for them rewrite it please. I'm not good with English that much i might make mistakes.

 

[Spinoirr]

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Hax bypasses physical stats, if Blue was hax then Yuta would've been eviscerated

ah yes because punching harder includes you creating a literal negative space that crates a black hole like effect sucking in literally everything around you.

Would you also then count blue itself as not a hax what so ever?

 

[SunDaGamer]

ah yes because punching harder includes you creating a literal negative space that crates a black hole like effect sucking in literally everything around you.

Would you also then count blue itself as not a hax what so ever?

Blue isn't hax, it's just physics manip being used to punch harder, in order for an ability to be hax it has to bypass a physical stat to some capacity which Blue doesn't