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(JTTW) Sun Wukong CRT

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Vietthai96 said:
Unless somehow we have the Earth with the size of universe, i don't remeber anything close, the scope of the verse is really limited, i think about at best Solar System tier. And to be honest, Chinese stories have massively flowery languages, it is the core of their language, as a Vietnamese guy i interacting with the language many times, it often got translated to our language thus i know the nature of it, for example the word "infinite power" is just a flowery way to said about how powerful the God in that verse, and many many more. But well if you guys going to accept it then i have nothing to say.
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I doubt it's only Solar System level when multiple constellations and such exist. Won't speak for any higher tier but it's definitely more than planetary in scope.
Vietthai96 said:
The things i opposing is Transduality and possibly AE and NEP, the Yin Yang in the verse is not something belong to the duality of binary system, it is just a ideology about of balance of the world belong to Taoism, a harmony between two opposing force of the world in the faith itself which is possitive and negative, evil and goodness, life and death, etc.....everything which consider black and white. But well if you guys think that is Transdual, then........
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I accepted Transduality because of a screenshot that directly describes Buddhas as "neither is nor isn't", "neither coming nor going" etc. Yin and Yang statements are mostly support of that anyway.
Vietthai96 said:
Also about Nirvana, it is something about the state of enlightenment, it is nothing about higher dimensional, it is something about state of nothingness (not NEP), free from all earthly desires, emotions, etc....allow oneself to ascend into Buddhahood, librating yourself from the suffering of mortal life, ascend to the heavenly realm. In Chinese literature, never once higher realm refer to higher dimensional, it is just a way to say about the Realm of God - The Heaven, the Sky. Everything about Nirvana, Yin Yang is just a teaching in the way of life; it is just us love to exaggerating these thing up.
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While I agree that it isn't higher dimensional, what's said about it in the book takes precedent over its actual religious or philosophical meanings.
Vietthai96 said:
Well sorry to everyone here if i'm happen to be too rude or disrespect, or rule breaking because of mentioning regilion, but Jorney to the West is my childhood, and it is the inspiration of another of my childhood - Dragon Ball, i don't want people somehow happen to read the profile and then obsessed with Nirvana or Yin Yang because of higher dimension or broken power while ignore the core meaning behind those things. Well sorry for derailing, i say my part. But anyway i respect you all decisions, i will try to help with all of my available knowledges
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Unfortunately, you're on the wrong site :/
 
Planck69 said:
I doubt it's only Solar System level when multiple constellations and such exist. Won't speak for any higher tier but it's definitely more than planetary in scope.

I accepted Transduality because of a screenshot that directly describes Buddhas as "neither is nor isn't", "neither coming nor going" etc. Yin and Yang statements are mostly support of that anyway.

While I agree that it isn't higher dimensional, what's said about it in the book takes precedent over its actual religious or philosophical meanings.

Unfortunately, you're on the wrong site :/
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So even if Nirvana is not considered a higher dimension do they still get Abstract Existence Type 2 for being embodiments?
 
Also, would they have Immortality 9 since their true forms are outside of any kind of duality of life and death, existence and nonexistence, etc?
 
Planck69 said:
That's Immortality (Type 5).
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I thought Immortality Type 9 was beings whose true selves exist elsewhere from where they can be killed? The Buddhas do have two bodies, after all, one being visible and formed and their true one being formless.
 
Those that reach Buddhahood have 3 bodies, not just 2. It need to show/state in novel for it to applied. At the same time, just having 2 bodies, or three, or more it doesn't grant type 9 - for it one need to have one of their body in another plane of existence, another dimension, etc where it makes harder to be killed because it can't be reached that easily.
 
Zaratthustra said:
Those that reach Buddhahood have 3 bodies, not just 2. It need to show/state in novel for it to applied. At the same time, just having 2 bodies, or three, or more it doesn't grant type 9 - for it one need to have one of their body in another plane of existence, another dimension, etc where it makes harder to be killed because it can't be reached that easily.
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Here is the statement. They have a Dharma Body which is the one they interact with the world with. But at the same time, they have a bodiless body, formless that is with all the transduality stuff.
 
Question about the rules, so I understand you cant use sutras or religious text. But what about general knowledge? Like if something in the Novel is mentioned, but it's never explained. But you can look it up and find out what it is. Does that count as valid or do we just have to assume in the Novel that it isn't that?
 
ActuallySpaceMan said:
Question about the rules, so I understand you cant use sutras or religious text. But what about general knowledge? Like if something in the Novel is mentioned, but it's never explained. But you can look it up and find out what it is. Does that count as valid or do we just have to assume in the Novel that it isn't that?
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No, not at all.
 
StekFence said:
the mountain level for splitting the five elements mountain. First of all, you’d probably need the average size of Chinese mountains, secondly, splitting one is not nearly the same as destroying one. Becuase the cudgel or hand, whatever he used, would only slice through a small portion of the mountain
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Monkey could already obliterate mountains, Five Elements Mountain was so heavy and impressive it could keep Wukong down long enough to put a seal on the Mountain that sealed Wukong.
 
Antvasima said:
I think that it was decided that we can only scale from what is stated in Journey to the West itself, not from additional Buddhist religious scriptures.
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It was decided that trying to rip Journey to the West away from it's religious, philosophical and cultural background made for a bad profile that did not accurately display what the text said.

So, the profile was deleted.
 
Udlmaster said:
It was decided that trying to rip Journey to the West away from it's religious, philosophical and cultural background made for a bad profile that did not accurately display what the text said.

So, the profile was deleted.
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Okay. Noted.
 
ActuallySpaceMan said:
Here is the statement. They have a Dharma Body which is the one they interact with the world with. But at the same time, they have a bodiless body, formless that is with all the transduality stuff.
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No, this is wrong.

What you're describing is the Trikaya, the Doctrine of three bodies.

In Mahayana buddhism, Trikaya is where a Buddha will possess three bodies.

Nirmanakaya, this is the body of the physical world, it interacts with the physical world and people. This is the body the Buddha would use when talking to Wukong and the Gods.

Next is the Sambhogakaya body, or the Pleasure/Bliss/Enjoyment/etc. body. This body enjoys the pleasures of the Pure Lands and Buddha Realms.

Lastly, is the Dharmakaya, the Truth/Phenomenon body, this body is the body which is unified with the Adi-Buddha. It is unmanifested, unimaginable and is without arising.
 
Zaratthustra said:
Those that reach Buddhahood have 3 bodies, not just 2. It need to show/state in novel for it to applied. At the same time, just having 2 bodies, or three, or more it doesn't grant type 9 - for it one need to have one of their body in another plane of existence, another dimension, etc where it makes harder to be killed because it can't be reached that easily.
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They do. For example, Avalokitesvara, also known as Guanyin, repeatedly manifests his Physical bodies. In tradition, he manifests as many genders, such as the male Dalai Lama, or maybe the female Guanyin.
 
So basically Buddha's have subjective reality but it's special. The Dharma is created from the mind and represents everything about Buddhism knowledge-wise. The Dharma is considered boundless within the verse (And Infinite) and because Buddhas know everything about the Dharma their Dharma/Knowlege is considered boundless. And a Buddha's powers come from their Dharma.

That means every time they use any of their powers (Dharma Powers) they are making their knowledge a reality. This is proven by the fact a Buddha is their mind and their mind is The Buddha. Basically means they are their knowledge and their knowledge is them. That is why they have Dharma Bodies.

Because they think they are neither dual nor non-dual, neither existent nor nonexistent, they are. So basically you get the idea, they Buddhist Knowledge becomes reality, because they have subjective reality. So their power is boundless because their Wisdom is Infinite because it's the Dharma. This means their Omniscience, Omnipresence, Power over Duality, Creation, Acausality, everything listed under them is stemming from their Subjective Reality, cause their powers are boundless like the Dharma is.

That also means anything that they believe in their mind is actually reality. So Buddha's viewing all of the existence mentally as void and dream-like unreality in their minds is actually true. Because there is no barrier between the Buddha's mind and The Buddha. They are one another and represent one another.

This puts them above their verses narrative if I'm not mistaken.
 
1. No, boundless here, even though mention multiple times, is just a flowery way to say the power is unbound, strongest within the verse
2. About hax, @Planck69 and @Zaratthustra can give you answer, but i'm fine with, Omniscience, Creation (which is obviously), about Omnipresence i don't think so, more like Clairvoyance
3. No, i don't think so, nothing stated that, it is just your interpretation, about Buddha's viewing all of the existence mentally as void and dream-like unreality in their minds

Also refrain from double post bro
 
Vietthai96 said:
1. No, boundless here, even though mention multiple times, is just a flowery way to say the power is unbound, strongest within the verse
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Not trying to state they are boundless. I'm trying to state that whatever is in the Dharma is their Reality.
About hax, @Planck69 and @Zaratthustra can give you answer, but i'm fine with, Omniscience, Creation (which is obviously), about Omnipresence i don't think so, more like Clairvoyance
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You kind of missed what I was saying. I'll give you a few examples, Creation feat is based on them creating the Elemental Mountains. Which was done through their Knowlege/Dharma. The same goes for all of their feats. Anything they do involve powers is through Dharma meaning Buddhist Knowlege. That means they can make any Buddhist Knowledge a reality.
3. No, i don't think so, nothing stated that, it is just your interpretation, about Buddha's viewing all of the existence mentally as void and dream-like unreality in their minds
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You can see right there he's explaining the Dharma. And their power is the Dharma, pair that with Subjective Reality, which means this is all true.
 
Planck69 said:
Then they just have Subjective Reality. Nothing above warrants them transcending their setting.
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I was using that as an example, here's the actual thing.



Normally this could just be taken as a mental state. But with Subjective Reality, it changes things.

Basically, because unreality and reality can be switched out. This spell free's them from the dream-like reality.

 
.....Which is still just Subjective Reality. I'm really not seeing any qualitative superiority over reality in a manner that warrants a higher tier. You can ask other staff what they think.
 
Planck69 said:
.....Which is still just Subjective Reality. I'm really not seeing any qualitative superiority over reality in a manner that warrants a higher tier. You can ask other staff what they think.
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They view the beginning and ends, matter, sensation, perception, consciousness, discrimination, thought, visible category and mental ones, negative phenomena, wisdom. basically, everything physical and mental as Dream-like Unreality completely rid of them. And everything that is void and emptiness, even if it has existence or nonexistence is still not real to them, as I showed above.
 
It's just Transduality and Subjective Reality as far it's being presented.

And regular members can't ping others. You have to contact them on their walls.
 
Thank you for the evaluation.
 
matter is voidness and voidness is matter.
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no taste, no touch and no mental process
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Matter is not permanent matter, matter is empty.
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Emptiness is not permanent emptiness, emptiness is matter.
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Non−matter is matter; non−emptiness is emptiness.
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What exists is non−existent, and what does not exist is not non−existent.
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is rid of dreamlike thoughts of unreality

All of these things are considered dream-like thoughts of unreality.
They clearly don't view the real world as the real world.

All of these words interchange their meaning in the context of the story, and since in the end they are considered unreality, they are.
 
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at this point i think you can stop with your interpretation, it is very unhealthy to cherrypicking some certain lines to prove your point. Also where the hell are those line come from, i don't remember them from the Vietnamese translation version
 
Vietthai96 said:
at this point i think you can stop with your interpretation, it is very unhealthy to cherrypicking some certain lines to prove your point. Also where the hell are those line come from, i don't remember them from the Vietnamese translation version
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I'm literally stating what is in the Novel. In their minds, they interchange everything matter and nonmatter, void and not void, empty and nonempty. If they considered these thoughts of dream-like unreality, and their teachings are a reality, then that means they view reality as dream-like unreality.

It's pretty simple to understand.

Anyway, this is the last argument I'll be going after for Sun Wukong, everything else Is already done.
 
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So what should we do here exactly?
 
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