(JTTW) Sun Wukong CRT

[Antvasima]

If you list the evidence for all the relevant feats that you need to get calculated here, I can ask a few calc group members if they are willing to help you out.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

These are all the ones without calcs, speed I calced already.

Splitting a chain of five mountains.

Shaking multiple mountains and the ground they're on.

Causing multiple rivers and seas to boil and affects a country with a storm.

Destroying Forest and creating thousands of tsunamis as tall as mountains.

Being stronger than a being, who could flip mountains, shake four continents and flatten forests.

Defeating Every Star within the Twenty Eight Constellations and every constellation in the East and West.

 

[Antvasima]

These are all the ones without calcs, speed I calced already.

Splitting a chain of five mountains.

Shaking multiple mountains and the ground they're on.

Causing multiple rivers and seas to boil and affects a country with a storm.

Destroying Forest and creating thousands of tsunamis as tall as mountains.

Being stronger than a being, who could flip mountains, shake four continents and flatten forests.

Defeating Every Star within the Twenty Eight Constellations and every constellation in the East and West.

@DemonGodMitchAubin @Jasonsith @KieranH10 @Migue79

Would any of you be willing to calculate the relevant ones of these feats? Tell us here if you accept please.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

These are all the ones without calcs, speed I calced already.

Splitting a chain of five mountains.

Shaking multiple mountains and the ground they're on.

Causing multiple rivers and seas to boil and affects a country with a storm.

Destroying Forest and creating thousands of tsunamis as tall as mountains.

Being stronger than a being, who could flip mountains, shake four continents and flatten forests.

Defeating Every Star within the Twenty Eight Constellations and every constellation in the East and West.

Getcha, i'm going to contacting the other calc members as well

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Contacted: @Amelia_Lonelyheart @KLOL506 @DragonGamerZ913 @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Psychomaster35

At least now we need to covering the non-universal feats by Wukong, the latter can be continued later

 

[Jasonsith]

As far as I know there are several states of the OG JTTW Sun Wukong:
1. Pre-Training by Puti Zhushi
2. Pre-Armoring by Sea Dragon King
3. Saint as Heaven's Equal Arc
4. Post-Buddha Imprisonment Arc
5. Victorious Fighting Buddha
Whenever a feat is noted, mark the key phase when Sun Wukong or "his equal"/rival performed such feat.

Thanks.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

As far as I know there are several states of the OG JTTW Sun Wukong:
1. Pre-Training by Puti Zhushi
2. Pre-Armoring by Sea Dragon King
3. Saint as Heaven's Equal Arc
4. Post-Buddha Imprisonment Arc
5. Victorious Fighting Buddha
Whenever a feat is noted, mark the key phase when Sun Wukong or "his equal"/rival performed such feat.

Thanks.

Well, I can't really do it like that because Sun Wukong's powers are inconsistent. His Sage Equal To Heaven version has better feats is stronger than his Imprisonment Version, despite being later into the series. But at the same time, no one calls him out for being weaker.

 

[Planck69]

Now granted my knowledge of JttW is like 80% OSP and 20% what general overviews I've seen over the years but aren't most of the lower showings usually other characters getting around his raw strength in some manner? Feel free to correct me.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Now granted my knowledge of JttW is like 80% OSP and 20% what general overviews I've seen over the years but aren't most of the lower showings usually other characters getting around his raw strength in some manner? Feel free to correct me.

Well, an example is the Six Eared Macaque which is stated to just be stronger than him. But then a little bit later, it's they were said to be equal in power. And then he just kills it in one hit despite all of that.

Even the Evil Spirit which was affecting continents which even he was said to be weaker than and afraid of, got beat by him a few chapters later easily.

 

[Planck69]

I mean, feats come over statements in any case so at worst that could just be incorrect hype for Six Ears.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I mean, feats come over statements in any case so at worst that could just be incorrect hype for Six Ears.

I suppose so. It just makes marking them a bit confusing since they'll be out of order. The Fiver Mountain Feat was after he was sealed and is the lowest, but the higher level feats are before he was sealed.

 

[Antvasima]

As far as I know there are several states of the OG JTTW Sun Wukong:
1. Pre-Training by Puti Zhushi
2. Pre-Armoring by Sea Dragon King
3. Saint as Heaven's Equal Arc
4. Post-Buddha Imprisonment Arc
5. Victorious Fighting Buddha
Whenever a feat is noted, mark the key phase when Sun Wukong or "his equal"/rival performed such feat.

Thanks.

Is somebody here willing and able to help with this please?

 

[KLOL506]

These are all the ones without calcs, speed I calced already.

Splitting a chain of five mountains.

Hmmmmmm, I remember a calc member saying that we have an average mountain base value alongside your usual height.
https://gyazo.com/6013037394ac009736fd6de8c9497816

Shaking multiple mountains and the ground they're on.

I'm assuming this has to do with some Chinese mountain range due to it being a Chinese mythology and all. Not sure which one to pick tho.
https://gyazo.com/f869af97e74b15edc53cb3ae5d57840c

Causing multiple rivers and seas to boil and affects a country with a storm.

My best bet is to use the rivers in China and the seas surrounding China. Heat calcs are kinna outta my expertise tho. Jasonsith can help, he seems to be an expert in dealing with Chinese mythology or something.
https://gyazo.com/b74808101b842a4eb21c251b8593aa21

Destroying Forest and creating thousands of tsunamis as tall as mountains.

AFAIK destroying the average forest is High 8-C to 8-B. Tsunamis as tall as mountains... You could try looking at the Whitebeard calcs for some insight on the formula used.
https://gyazo.com/5cd6d816c2a42a0de05322719768d783

Being stronger than a being, who could flip mountains, shake four continents and flatten forests.

Four continents... needs a bit more context. Flipping mountains could be easier since we have designated volumes for those, methinks.
https://gyazo.com/b2d5524db2a34ecc3bd15e0f71cbf105

Defeating Every Star within the Twenty Eight Constellations and every constellation in the East and West.

Are those real constellations?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Four continents... needs a bit more context. Flipping mountains could be easier since we have designated volumes for those, methinks.
https://gyazo.com/b2d5524db2a34ecc3bd15e0f71cbf105

Are those real constellations?

There are Four Central Continents in the world as stated by the Omniscient Buddha. The exact size of each of them isn't stated, but a river that is three million miles long manages to go through all of them.

They are talking about real constellations. The link I attached to the Twenty-Eight Constellations is the Eastern Constellations they talk about. But they also have the western ones, etc.

 

[KLOL506]

There are Four Central Continents in the world as stated by the Omniscient Buddha. The exact size of each of them isn't stated, but a river that is three million miles long manages to go through all of them.

Hmmmmmm.

They are talking about real constellations. The link I attached to the Twenty-Eight Constellations is the Eastern Constellations they talk about. But they also have the western ones, etc.

Well, IIRC, constellation creation/destruction is usually High 4-C territory.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Well, IIRC, constellation creation/destruction is usually High 4-C territory.

Alright changed it.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, IIRC, constellation creation/destruction is usually High 4-C territory.

Destroying a constellation via an omnidirectional blast/shockwave is 4-A as far as I am aware.

 

[Planck69]

Destroying a constellation via an omnidirectional blast/shockwave is 4-A as far as I am aware.

Considering that he seems to somehow be beating them up, I honestly don't know how we'd approach this.

 

[Zaratthustra]

The Constellations are made by gods and while they represent them, they aren't that big as they fitted in a camp holding blades, they aren't gas giants.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

The Constellations are made by gods and while they represent them, they aren't that big as they fitted in a camp holding blades, they aren't gas giants.

They still are the stars though. If the God representing a star leaves the sky or dies the star disappears.
Shapeshifting is a thing though, its what gives Sun Wukong his ability to fill the Universe, so its not unexplainable.

 

[Planck69]

They still are the stars though. If the God representing a star leaves the sky or dies the star disappears.
Shapeshifting is a thing though, its what gives Sun Wukong his ability to fill the Universe, so its not unexplainable.

I mean, Helios from God of War getting kidnapped blacked out the Sun but he's very clearly a seperate entity.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I mean, Helios from God of War getting kidnapped blacked out the Sun but he's very clearly a seperate entity.

Well, I would say maybe they are like projections, but the Novel state's Space is a thing. So either God's entering and exiting the sky creates and destroys the stars. Or they can switch between their star and human form as they please.

 

[Greatsage13th]

The Constellations are made by gods and while they represent them, they aren't that big as they fitted in a camp holding blades, they aren't gas giants.

Considering that there is a river billions of miles long compared to a star such as our own which has a diameter less than 1 million miles. We should assume that the world is super sized to fit the narrative.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

What... The... F, it's talking like me

 

[Greatsage13th]

What... The... F, it's talking like me

Paradoxical.

 

[Planck69]

Considering that there is a river billions of miles long compared to a star such as our own which has a diameter less than 1 million miles. We should assume that the world is super sized to fit the narrative.

Except we have very little idea of how the world is proportioned to the stars. If you can supply a scan of the overall planet, first being a planet, and either being small or just proportioned to the wider cosmos like a celestial body normally is then maybe some upscaling can happen.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Paradoxical.

You can't understand monkey talk, that was just a little more understanding and simpler.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Except we have very little idea of how the world is proportioned to the stars. If you can supply a scan of the overall planet, first being a planet, and either being small or just proportioned to the wider cosmos like a celestial body normally is then maybe some upscaling can happen.

I'll have to see if there was one.

 

[Malomtek]

It was decided that trying to rip Journey to the West away from it's religious, philosophical and cultural background made for a bad profile that did not accurately display what the text said.

So, the profile was deleted.

Does that decision still hold right now? That you can't separate Journey To The West from its greater Chinese folk religious heritage, so profiles can't be made based off of it?

If so, this entire thread is pointless, and should be closed immediately.

If it doesn't, if you can separate Journey To The West from its greater Chinese folk religious heritage, or if you are allowed to make profiles that take such heritage into account now, then my stance on the matter is quite simple.

You must use what the book itself explains as the fundamental guidepost to determining and interpreting JTTW stats, only resorting to the greater Chinese cultural sphere if the book is relatively vague on some particular peculiarity, or mentions something and doesn't explain it further (presumably because the writer thought what said thing was would be obvious to the reader).

From reading JTTW, I must also say that the book is laden with poems, none of which should be taken "seriously" in terms of determining the stats and powers of any JTTW character, as they are all naturally figurative and hyperbolic. The poems should be considered separate from the "main story" proper, as far as statistics analysis goes.

 

[Malomtek]

I also chuckle at the idea that Journey To The West is particularly "separate" from "mainstream" Chinese folk religion, whatever "mainstream" Chinese folk religion even means to begin with given how different localities can have very different religious traditions. Of course, it probably goes hand-in-hand with the notion that the Shahnameh is "separate" from "mainstream" Sassanid Persian religion, or that the Iliad is "separate" from "mainstream" ancient Greek religion.

I think determining whether a particular mythological profile is "viable" because of how "separate" it is from the "mainstream" religious or spiritual traditions of a specific cultural region is a stupid and nonsensical idea, and we should instead base it on whether it comes from a "complete work" that is "independent" (able to "stand on its own" as a significant and extensive piece of literature), and "self-sufficient" (able to "explain itself" feats-wise, without particularly high need to delve into other mythological tales for further context), relative to the rest of the mythological corpus.

Like the Iliad and Odyssey, the Epic of Gilgamesh, Beowulf, the Dionysiaca, the Matter of Britain, the Matter of France, Cantar de mio Cid, the complete Alexander Romance, the Shahnameh, or Journey To The West.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Does that decision still hold right now? That you can't separate Journey To The West from its greater Chinese folk religious heritage, so profiles can't be made based off of it?

If so, this entire thread is pointless, and should be closed immediately.

If it doesn't, if you can separate Journey To The West from its greater Chinese folk religious heritage, or if you are allowed to make profiles that take such heritage into account now, then my stance on the matter is quite simple.

You must use what the book itself explains as the fundamental guidepost to determining and interpreting JTTW stats, only resorting to the greater Chinese cultural sphere if the book is relatively vague on some particular peculiarity, or mentions something and doesn't explain it further (presumably because the writer thought what said thing was would be obvious to the reader).

From reading JTTW, I must also say that the book is laden with poems, none of which should be taken "seriously" in terms of determining the stats and powers of any JTTW character, as they are all naturally figurative and hyperbolic. The poems should be considered separate from the "main story" proper, as far as statistics analysis goes.

I extremely agree with this.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Does that decision still hold right now? That you can't separate Journey To The West from its greater Chinese folk religious heritage, so profiles can't be made based off of it?

If so, this entire thread is pointless, and should be closed immediately.

If it doesn't, if you can separate Journey To The West from its greater Chinese folk religious heritage, or if you are allowed to make profiles that take such heritage into account now, then my stance on the matter is quite simple.

You must use what the book itself explains as the fundamental guidepost to determining and interpreting JTTW stats, only resorting to the greater Chinese cultural sphere if the book is relatively vague on some particular peculiarity, or mentions something and doesn't explain it further (presumably because the writer thought what said thing was would be obvious to the reader).

From reading JTTW, I must also say that the book is laden with poems, none of which should be taken "seriously" in terms of determining the stats and powers of any JTTW character, as they are all naturally figurative and hyperbolic. The poems should be considered separate from the "main story" proper, as far as statistics analysis goes.

Fortunately its the latter, otherwise these discussion shouldn't reached to 2 pages in first place

 

[Greatsage13th]

Woah woah, I agree with you there bud but the current proposal for the profile is extremely well made when compared to the former and it would be a real shame if everything was shut down again.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

You must use what the book itself explains as the fundamental guidepost to determining and interpreting JTTW stats, only resorting to the greater Chinese cultural sphere if the book is relatively vague on some particular peculiarity, or mentions something and doesn't explain it further (presumably because the writer thought what said thing was would be obvious to the reader).

They said you can't reference anything from outside of the novel. Which sucks since they refer to so many things in the Novel that are vague unless you look them up.

 

[Antvasima]

I think determining whether a particular mythological profile is "viable" because of how "separate" it is from the "mainstream" religious or spiritual traditions of a specific cultural region is a stupid and nonsensical idea, and we should instead base it on whether it comes from a "complete work" that is "independent" (able to "stand on its own" as a significant and extensive piece of literature), and "self-sufficient" (able to "explain itself" feats-wise, without particularly high need to delve into other mythological tales for further context), relative to the rest of the mythological corpus.

I think that is what we already do according to out rules.

 

[Udlmaster]

Does that decision still hold right now? That you can't separate Journey To The West from its greater Chinese folk religious heritage, so profiles can't be made based off of it?

I agree, that's why I was pushing so infinitely hard against it. People wanting to strip the nuance from traditional phrases like "As many sands in the Ganges" being a measurement for something infinite or unimaginably big.

If it doesn't, if you can separate Journey To The West from its greater Chinese folk religious heritage, or if you are allowed to make profiles that take such heritage into account now, then my stance on the matter is quite simple.

No, you can't.

It's too heavily steeped in Daoist, Buddhist and traditional Chinese culture to be stripped of them, and even if you could, it'd be insulting to do so, to do so would be to diminish it into something else.

If you want to strip all the Daoist, Buddhist and Chinese aspects of it, make a profile for a Wukong from a movie or TV show that's devoid of those things. Otherwise, there is no point continuing.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I agree, that's why I was pushing so infinitely hard against it. People wanting to strip the nuance from traditional phrases like "As many sands in the Ganges" being a measurement for something infinite or unimaginably big.

No, you can't.

It's too heavily steeped in Daoist, Buddhist and traditional Chinese culture to be stripped of them, and even if you could, it'd be insulting to do so, to do so would be to diminish it into something else.

If you want to strip all the Daoist, Buddhist and Chinese aspects of it, make a profile for a Wukong from a movie or TV show that's devoid of those things. Otherwise, there is no point continuing.

You can I mean the profile I made proves you can get a clean profile from Sun Wukong and the Buddha in JTTW without stripping things down.

 

[Greatsage13th]

You can I mean the profile I made proves you can get a clean profile from Sun Wukong and the Buddha in JTTW without stripping things down.
I don't know how people just missed the whole Dharma being Subjective Reality thing or Buddha's being embodiments.

It was easy to miss.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

It was easy to miss.

Ya, my bad, not trying to be rude or anything.

I made this going over a bunch of stuff regarding worlds.
I doubt much of it can be used but I would like someone to look it over.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Ya, my bad, not trying to be rude or anything.

I made this going over a bunch of stuff regarding worlds.
I doubt much of it can be used but I would like someone to look it over.

Looking at it. I can see something similar to something infinite contained within another infinite. Wouldn't it technically mean that there is some kind of higher levels of infinity here?