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Hello fellas. This is the JoJo Speed CRT. Currently, a lot of characters are scaled as "Massively FTL" or "Massively FTL reactions", but the rating comes from Silver Chariot, one of the fastest Stands in JoJo. Even Stands like Crazy Diamond and Echoes are rated as "Massively FTL", when it's stated that among them, only Jotaro would be able to keep up with the speed of light, aside from that, rating normal Stand users as MFTL based on iffy feats, while MFTL Stands can blitz them, is awful. Some Part 3 characters are not here, since they interact with Massively FTL Stands like Star Platinum and Silver Chariot, and characters like Joseph. Though, they should lose their reactions, since it's baseless most of the time. After reading the manga and analysing the feats, we can easily reach the conclusion that not all Stands are Massively FTL. @Chariot190 also helped me with this.
The sandbox with ratings, and a different one with more + explanations.
I ask you to read all the relevant stuff that I linked below, since the Sandbox are where all the justifications comes from. Anothet thing I ask is, don't comment useless stuff, don't ask dumb questions, they are all answered in the Q&A part of the thread, so read carefully, pay attention and try to understand what the answer want to say.
Solid rating:
A: False, exceptionally so, when has the user being slower than the Stand ever effected how fast the Stand was? It doesn't and wouldn't, because it happens all the time, take, well, almost any of them, the Stands are all almost always faster then the user to degrees. Chariot is such a case, he's faster than Pol, plain and simple, and not by only a bit, he could run circles around Pol. For example, take Echoes Act 3, it's a Stand, but it's so much faster than his user that he can't even properly perceive his own Stand move. Meaning? However fast Pol is would have zero effect on how fast something like Chariot's attacks and slashes are, they're completely disconnected, especially in the case of Pol who doesn't have dual senses.
Q: If Pol couln't see Hanged Man, then neither could Chariot.
A: You'd be correct, but not in the way you think. Chariot is effectively blind, he can't see without Pol's guidance, this is explained in the Devil arc, Chariot can't attack what Pol can't see, he has the speed and the power to, but if he isn't "guided" per say, he can't, and it's something actually kinda exclusive to Chariot for the most part which other Stands wouldn't have. Why is Chariot like this? We do not know, it's presumed because of the armor, but it is what it is. But does this mean Chariot isn't fast? No, he's still ludicrously fast, it's just he needs to know where to attack first, put simply, it's like aiming a gun and Chariot is the bullet, Pol aims the gun and fires, and the super fast bullet comes out and attacks where he aimed because the bullet is actually a blindman and can only swing widely without command. Furthermore, this isn't something that's completely disconnected from the Hanged Man arc, Chariot's flaw in that, despite being fast, he can't use that speed if he doesn't know where to aim due to being blind, is set up in the prior Chariot arc, ie, the last time we see it before Hanged Man, not only that but it's the SAME VOLUME as when Hanged Man arc's start. Aka, it's established not long before Hanged Man that Chariot has such a innate flaw. So yes, Chariot couldn't see Hanged Man, not because he isnt fast enough to completely blow him out of the water, but because he needs guidance, more so then say something like Star Platinum, because he can't attack due to being blind for the most part, but he can still swing his sword at ludicrously fast speeds once he knows where to, which is coincidentally, though likely not a coincidence, exactly what happened in Hanged Man.
Meaning, Chariot is a ludicrously fast blind man who needs to be told where to attack by a slower dude but when he does, he's attacking and he's attacking fast. As odd as that sounds, that's exactly what it is, it be like it do, and the funny thing is, that's 100% intentional. This weakness would need to be explained on Chariot's profile though.
Q: Chariot attacked before Hanged Man began moving, so he doesn't scale.
A: False, both times even, Chariot swings after Hanged Man moves. Yet not only that, in the main one, Chariot isn't even in position, we know this because Chariot is demonstrably and quantifiably not there, we can angsize the distance the coin and the beam is from the POV, and then again in the panel where Chariot is, put simply, not only do we not see Chariot in the panel, but he quite literally can't be there yet because we'd see him, in fact we'd see his back still in both, just like, a few cm zoomed in.
Q: Chariot swung ahead of time.
A: He didn't, not only was he not even there, but we see his blade's arch, a, at minimum, 90 degree cut, and it strikes Hanged Man in full before he reaches the coin, meaning Chariot gets it off in full.
Q: This wouldn't scale to anyone else.
A: Multiple characters react to Chariot's slashes, well, less characters and more Stands, Star Platinum even rivals a speed boosted one mid part and Cream can react to a speed boosted one as well. For all of Chariot's shortcomings, his slashes and attack speed is demonstrably of this caliber and scales accordingly.
Q: It's an outlier for Chariot.
A: Why would it be? We know why he had trouble, and, at least for Chariot, it wasn't a speed issue. Not only that, he's almost Star Platinum tier in speed, who is explicitly above lightspeed Stands in raw speed even without time stop (Above Hanged Man and RHCP in speed disregarding time stop, and not by just a bit either), so Chariot is already scaling to a character who's above the very Stand he "allegedly" can't keep up with, but to further that, Chariot later on in Part 3 manages to deflect 4 lightrays simutaneously, proving plain as day, that in regards to sheer speed, Chariot is above Hanged Man, as he effectively deflected 4 at once. Is the Hanged Man feat's number higher then other feats? Yeah, sure, but being the highest feat doesn't instantly invalidate it when the only arguments against it forego a bunch of information and context and the main argument of Chariot not being able to do that normally is demonstrably bullshit as we see him do it again later on.
Q: Star Platinum shit.
A: Chariot isn't far off of Star Platinum (at least mid), a Stand who is explicitly faster than light in his older days and out of his prime, but also explicitly above Hanged Man and RHCP in raw speed, and by quite a bit. Chariot isn't a huge bit off of Star Platinum in his prime, who's FTL as **** through statements and upscaling off his older self who's FTL via multiple statement, meaning, Chariot would be FTL even without having actual feats to back it up, the fact he does is just exceptionally nice.
Q: The story takes priority over the calcs and the story says Chariot isn't FTL.
A: The story also has Chariot tagging him twice, blatantly blitzing him the second time around in the same volume that a critical flaw of Chariot is established that explains away the whole issue here. It's also story that Chariot is fast and while not as fast, can compete with Star Platinum, a Stand that even outside his peak, is faster than light and is explicitly faster than Hanged Man in and of itself. It's fair to say that narratively, Pol himself isn't lightspeed, but to say story wise Chariot isn't? Well that's just untrue. And even if it was the case, Chariot demonstrably proves the story false, 6 times with his feats alone, let alone scaling to characters that also prove the notion false. Feats > story induced limitations, especially if said feats happen in abundance. This would unironically be like scaling everyone below SOL in DBZ due to Dyspo needing a special mode to hit lightspeed, obviously the story implies that Dyspo is SOL/FTL in that mode and everyone is below it bar a few, but they also have numerous rel+, ftl, and MFTL feats that disprove the notion, and no, I don't want to hear about "don't use whataboutisms", it's unironically the same shit and I know some of you here and ok with FTL DB despite the existence of that due to them having feats that say otherwise, the same applies here. Though I want to preface this with, the story doesn't even say Chariot is below lightspeed, just that Pol is (Though even he has 3 feats of his own that suggest at least a degree of relativity if not sol/ftl perception).
Q: Chariot was intended to be slower than light.
A: False, and a huge example of cherry picking. The story also has Chariot very blatantly outspeed the Hanged Man, borderline blitzing him, if we're to talk of intent, it's pretty clear that it was intended for Chariot to have outsped the Hanged Man, given that's blatantly what happens, to such a blatant degree that there's absolutely no way Araki didn't realize what he was doing. Not only that, Chariot tags Hanged Man twice after he begins moving. Not only that we later see Chariot deflect what is essentially four Hanged Man simultaneously, which is obviously something that was intended. To further that, within the same volume, the story establishes Chariot despite his overwhelming speed, can't strike what Pol himself can't see because of duel senses issue, that's obviously an intended and story related quirk established right prior. It's also obviously intended that Chariot scales to, at least to a degree, to stands like Star Platinum, who's FTL even outside his peak. I could go on, if one wants to use the excuse of "well it obviously was intended for Chariot to be slower" or "the story says otherwise", it goes both ways, except I'd bet that isn't even inherently the case, every single "reason" for why Chariot would be slower, is explained away in the very same volume and further that, it's established later on Chariot can easily deflect light beams. It's fair to say Polnareff is intended to be slower than Hanged Man, but it's not fair to say Chariot is intended to be, I'd even go far enough to say the exact opposite is intended, given Chariot no shit ***** with 6 different laser beams through Part 3 as well as his speed being up to par with a Stand blatantly above the very same Stand that Chariot is allegedly slower than.
Q: If Part 4 is that slow, the other parts have to as well.
A: Not even close, that's not an argument, and one from incredulity and means absolutely nothing, but no, that wouldn't be the case. It's shown time and time again and stated numerous times that Star Platinum, is the single fastest character in Part 4, and by an exceptional degree at that, even while massively weakened and half dead, he could blitz Killer Queen, who can in turn blitz someone like Echoes Act 3. The only Stand in part 4 who may come close is Heaven's Door but that's moot, especially as Heaven's Door can blitz CD and The Hand and the like. And mind you, this is Star Platinum no longer in his prime, an out of prime Star Platinum is hilariously above the whole part in speed, and yet there's Stands in Part 3, 5 and 6 that can at least contest him. What's that mean? Well it means that Part 4 is explicitly and intentionally far slower then the top Stands and it's made blatant. Part 3 SP>Fast Stands>Part 4 SP>>>>>>>>>>The whole of Part 4.
Q: Why is Part 6 only FTL.
A: Jotaro is getting kinda old, and is out of his prime, we do not know if SP is as fast or even close to his speed in his heyday put simply. But he's still some unknown degree of FTL, so that's the baseline, SP is FTL and the rest downscale accordingly, he's likely higher but that's the best we got, just that SP is still FTL.
Q: Why wouldn't Part 6 Jotaro scale to his younger self.
A: He's explicitly no longer in his prime. Not only that, Stands get slower with age, as confirmed in Part 5, where Sticky Fingers went from being faster than the Grateful Dead, to being perceived in slow motion, due to the aging effect. And while the possibility of Jotaro still being around his peak exists, it's shot down by confirmation of his peak being Part 3, meaning, yeah, he isn't his peak self any longer.
Q: Why is like all of Part 5 "at most".
A: Because they downscale, but how much? It's hard to tell, they could be FTL, FTL+ or even MFTL still in some cases, but how do we tell exactly how much they would downscale? It's arbitrary, in the same way we can't pinpoint exactly how fast a character who dodges or even blitzes another is without a statement, the same goes for downscale, in the same vain we'd use "At least" in that situation, we would use "At most". But essentially, no, the Part 5 Stands downscale bar a few, someone like GE is downscaling, he isn't on par with King Crimson, in fact he's quite a bit slower, but he's not so slow he can't react, even if it's only a bit, but is he downscaling to the point he's only FTL, FTL+, etc, impossible to say without calc stacking, so just "At most" his ass and that's that. If it's any consolation, think of a chunk as baseline MFTL at their absolute maximum.
Conclusion
When all profiles are edited, we need to add and remove some calcs from the verse page. Some of them aren't being used and they are either wrong or useless.
The sandbox with ratings, and a different one with more + explanations.
I ask you to read all the relevant stuff that I linked below, since the Sandbox are where all the justifications comes from. Anothet thing I ask is, don't comment useless stuff, don't ask dumb questions, they are all answered in the Q&A part of the thread, so read carefully, pay attention and try to understand what the answer want to say.
MFTL Stands
Feat comes from Silver Chariot, 225.15cSolid rating:
- Star Platinum
- The World
- Silver Chariot
- Cream
- King Crimson
- Golden Experience Requiem (Scales above the fastest "normal" Stand, wich would be The World and Star Platinum)
- Metallica
- The Fool
- Hermit Purple
- Magician's Red
- N'Doul
- Hierophant Green (Varies though)
- Hermit Purple
- Sticky Fingers
- Golden Experience
- Black Sabbath
- Spice Girl
- Oasis
- Grateful Dead
- Sex Pistolls bullets and their reactions
- Beach Boy
- Junior
- White Album
- Green Day
- Kraft Work
MFTL Non-Stand Characters
Part 2 Characters, they also scale to their own feats ranging from low end FTL+ to high end.Relativistic to FTL Stands
Part 4 Stands
Feat comes from Red Hot Chili Pepper. RHCP is stated to be SoL, and Crazy Diamond can keep up with him, but barely. Then they scale off of Crazy Diamond. The rating varies from Relativistic+ (Downscaling from SoL), Speed Of Light and FTL.- Star Platinum
- Possibly/Likely MFTL
- Red Hot Chili Pepper
- Crazy Diamond
- Killer Queen
- The Hand
- Enigma
- Stray Cat
- Bug-Eaten and Ratt.
- Echoes Act 3
Part 6 Stands
Feat comes from Whitesnake, can use his ability on Jotaro before he or Star Platinum could react to save him.Unknown
Stands that aren't noticiably fast and don't have any featsHuman Characters Speed
Reactions should be changed according to the feats the characters has. Only a couple of them would get MFTL, most of the characters would either get average human or their Stands speed as reactions.Questions and Answers
Q: Pol had trouble with Hanged Man, so Chariot can't scale.A: False, exceptionally so, when has the user being slower than the Stand ever effected how fast the Stand was? It doesn't and wouldn't, because it happens all the time, take, well, almost any of them, the Stands are all almost always faster then the user to degrees. Chariot is such a case, he's faster than Pol, plain and simple, and not by only a bit, he could run circles around Pol. For example, take Echoes Act 3, it's a Stand, but it's so much faster than his user that he can't even properly perceive his own Stand move. Meaning? However fast Pol is would have zero effect on how fast something like Chariot's attacks and slashes are, they're completely disconnected, especially in the case of Pol who doesn't have dual senses.
Q: If Pol couln't see Hanged Man, then neither could Chariot.
A: You'd be correct, but not in the way you think. Chariot is effectively blind, he can't see without Pol's guidance, this is explained in the Devil arc, Chariot can't attack what Pol can't see, he has the speed and the power to, but if he isn't "guided" per say, he can't, and it's something actually kinda exclusive to Chariot for the most part which other Stands wouldn't have. Why is Chariot like this? We do not know, it's presumed because of the armor, but it is what it is. But does this mean Chariot isn't fast? No, he's still ludicrously fast, it's just he needs to know where to attack first, put simply, it's like aiming a gun and Chariot is the bullet, Pol aims the gun and fires, and the super fast bullet comes out and attacks where he aimed because the bullet is actually a blindman and can only swing widely without command. Furthermore, this isn't something that's completely disconnected from the Hanged Man arc, Chariot's flaw in that, despite being fast, he can't use that speed if he doesn't know where to aim due to being blind, is set up in the prior Chariot arc, ie, the last time we see it before Hanged Man, not only that but it's the SAME VOLUME as when Hanged Man arc's start. Aka, it's established not long before Hanged Man that Chariot has such a innate flaw. So yes, Chariot couldn't see Hanged Man, not because he isnt fast enough to completely blow him out of the water, but because he needs guidance, more so then say something like Star Platinum, because he can't attack due to being blind for the most part, but he can still swing his sword at ludicrously fast speeds once he knows where to, which is coincidentally, though likely not a coincidence, exactly what happened in Hanged Man.
Meaning, Chariot is a ludicrously fast blind man who needs to be told where to attack by a slower dude but when he does, he's attacking and he's attacking fast. As odd as that sounds, that's exactly what it is, it be like it do, and the funny thing is, that's 100% intentional. This weakness would need to be explained on Chariot's profile though.
Q: Chariot attacked before Hanged Man began moving, so he doesn't scale.
A: False, both times even, Chariot swings after Hanged Man moves. Yet not only that, in the main one, Chariot isn't even in position, we know this because Chariot is demonstrably and quantifiably not there, we can angsize the distance the coin and the beam is from the POV, and then again in the panel where Chariot is, put simply, not only do we not see Chariot in the panel, but he quite literally can't be there yet because we'd see him, in fact we'd see his back still in both, just like, a few cm zoomed in.
Q: Chariot swung ahead of time.
A: He didn't, not only was he not even there, but we see his blade's arch, a, at minimum, 90 degree cut, and it strikes Hanged Man in full before he reaches the coin, meaning Chariot gets it off in full.
Q: This wouldn't scale to anyone else.
A: Multiple characters react to Chariot's slashes, well, less characters and more Stands, Star Platinum even rivals a speed boosted one mid part and Cream can react to a speed boosted one as well. For all of Chariot's shortcomings, his slashes and attack speed is demonstrably of this caliber and scales accordingly.
Q: It's an outlier for Chariot.
A: Why would it be? We know why he had trouble, and, at least for Chariot, it wasn't a speed issue. Not only that, he's almost Star Platinum tier in speed, who is explicitly above lightspeed Stands in raw speed even without time stop (Above Hanged Man and RHCP in speed disregarding time stop, and not by just a bit either), so Chariot is already scaling to a character who's above the very Stand he "allegedly" can't keep up with, but to further that, Chariot later on in Part 3 manages to deflect 4 lightrays simutaneously, proving plain as day, that in regards to sheer speed, Chariot is above Hanged Man, as he effectively deflected 4 at once. Is the Hanged Man feat's number higher then other feats? Yeah, sure, but being the highest feat doesn't instantly invalidate it when the only arguments against it forego a bunch of information and context and the main argument of Chariot not being able to do that normally is demonstrably bullshit as we see him do it again later on.
Q: Star Platinum shit.
A: Chariot isn't far off of Star Platinum (at least mid), a Stand who is explicitly faster than light in his older days and out of his prime, but also explicitly above Hanged Man and RHCP in raw speed, and by quite a bit. Chariot isn't a huge bit off of Star Platinum in his prime, who's FTL as **** through statements and upscaling off his older self who's FTL via multiple statement, meaning, Chariot would be FTL even without having actual feats to back it up, the fact he does is just exceptionally nice.
Q: The story takes priority over the calcs and the story says Chariot isn't FTL.
A: The story also has Chariot tagging him twice, blatantly blitzing him the second time around in the same volume that a critical flaw of Chariot is established that explains away the whole issue here. It's also story that Chariot is fast and while not as fast, can compete with Star Platinum, a Stand that even outside his peak, is faster than light and is explicitly faster than Hanged Man in and of itself. It's fair to say that narratively, Pol himself isn't lightspeed, but to say story wise Chariot isn't? Well that's just untrue. And even if it was the case, Chariot demonstrably proves the story false, 6 times with his feats alone, let alone scaling to characters that also prove the notion false. Feats > story induced limitations, especially if said feats happen in abundance. This would unironically be like scaling everyone below SOL in DBZ due to Dyspo needing a special mode to hit lightspeed, obviously the story implies that Dyspo is SOL/FTL in that mode and everyone is below it bar a few, but they also have numerous rel+, ftl, and MFTL feats that disprove the notion, and no, I don't want to hear about "don't use whataboutisms", it's unironically the same shit and I know some of you here and ok with FTL DB despite the existence of that due to them having feats that say otherwise, the same applies here. Though I want to preface this with, the story doesn't even say Chariot is below lightspeed, just that Pol is (Though even he has 3 feats of his own that suggest at least a degree of relativity if not sol/ftl perception).
Q: Chariot was intended to be slower than light.
A: False, and a huge example of cherry picking. The story also has Chariot very blatantly outspeed the Hanged Man, borderline blitzing him, if we're to talk of intent, it's pretty clear that it was intended for Chariot to have outsped the Hanged Man, given that's blatantly what happens, to such a blatant degree that there's absolutely no way Araki didn't realize what he was doing. Not only that, Chariot tags Hanged Man twice after he begins moving. Not only that we later see Chariot deflect what is essentially four Hanged Man simultaneously, which is obviously something that was intended. To further that, within the same volume, the story establishes Chariot despite his overwhelming speed, can't strike what Pol himself can't see because of duel senses issue, that's obviously an intended and story related quirk established right prior. It's also obviously intended that Chariot scales to, at least to a degree, to stands like Star Platinum, who's FTL even outside his peak. I could go on, if one wants to use the excuse of "well it obviously was intended for Chariot to be slower" or "the story says otherwise", it goes both ways, except I'd bet that isn't even inherently the case, every single "reason" for why Chariot would be slower, is explained away in the very same volume and further that, it's established later on Chariot can easily deflect light beams. It's fair to say Polnareff is intended to be slower than Hanged Man, but it's not fair to say Chariot is intended to be, I'd even go far enough to say the exact opposite is intended, given Chariot no shit ***** with 6 different laser beams through Part 3 as well as his speed being up to par with a Stand blatantly above the very same Stand that Chariot is allegedly slower than.
Q: If Part 4 is that slow, the other parts have to as well.
A: Not even close, that's not an argument, and one from incredulity and means absolutely nothing, but no, that wouldn't be the case. It's shown time and time again and stated numerous times that Star Platinum, is the single fastest character in Part 4, and by an exceptional degree at that, even while massively weakened and half dead, he could blitz Killer Queen, who can in turn blitz someone like Echoes Act 3. The only Stand in part 4 who may come close is Heaven's Door but that's moot, especially as Heaven's Door can blitz CD and The Hand and the like. And mind you, this is Star Platinum no longer in his prime, an out of prime Star Platinum is hilariously above the whole part in speed, and yet there's Stands in Part 3, 5 and 6 that can at least contest him. What's that mean? Well it means that Part 4 is explicitly and intentionally far slower then the top Stands and it's made blatant. Part 3 SP>Fast Stands>Part 4 SP>>>>>>>>>>The whole of Part 4.
Q: Why is Part 6 only FTL.
A: Jotaro is getting kinda old, and is out of his prime, we do not know if SP is as fast or even close to his speed in his heyday put simply. But he's still some unknown degree of FTL, so that's the baseline, SP is FTL and the rest downscale accordingly, he's likely higher but that's the best we got, just that SP is still FTL.
Q: Why wouldn't Part 6 Jotaro scale to his younger self.
A: He's explicitly no longer in his prime. Not only that, Stands get slower with age, as confirmed in Part 5, where Sticky Fingers went from being faster than the Grateful Dead, to being perceived in slow motion, due to the aging effect. And while the possibility of Jotaro still being around his peak exists, it's shot down by confirmation of his peak being Part 3, meaning, yeah, he isn't his peak self any longer.
Q: Why is like all of Part 5 "at most".
A: Because they downscale, but how much? It's hard to tell, they could be FTL, FTL+ or even MFTL still in some cases, but how do we tell exactly how much they would downscale? It's arbitrary, in the same way we can't pinpoint exactly how fast a character who dodges or even blitzes another is without a statement, the same goes for downscale, in the same vain we'd use "At least" in that situation, we would use "At most". But essentially, no, the Part 5 Stands downscale bar a few, someone like GE is downscaling, he isn't on par with King Crimson, in fact he's quite a bit slower, but he's not so slow he can't react, even if it's only a bit, but is he downscaling to the point he's only FTL, FTL+, etc, impossible to say without calc stacking, so just "At most" his ass and that's that. If it's any consolation, think of a chunk as baseline MFTL at their absolute maximum.
Conclusion
When all profiles are edited, we need to add and remove some calcs from the verse page. Some of them aren't being used and they are either wrong or useless.
but I just took that from a note I had done like 8 months back.
I know damn well they've seen it, ya had your chance to speak up lads 
