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Jojo Phantom Blood and Battle Tendency revisions

StrymULTRA

StrymULTRA

12,719
4,906
The profiles of the first 2 parts of JJBA are pretty much contradictory.

ABOUT PHANTOM BLOOD

All the speed feats are scaled from Will Anthonio Zeppeli, who has Hypersonic+ speed because: "Had traveled from places farther away from Jonathan without him realizing it. Matched a casual DIO in speed, and reacted to debris launched at him as fast as an explosio". This calc doesen't even lead to Hypersonic+ speed, Mach 3 is only Supersonic+ speed, so all the Hypersonic/Hypersonic+ speed of PB/BT characters should be changed with Supersonic+.

Dio has only "Supersonic with Hypersonic attack speed and reactions" speed, making him the slowest of all the Part 1 cast, since Dio has Hypersonic speed only in attack and reaction and everyone else seems like they have Hypersonic+ speed (without a justification) even in travel speed.

Bruford too, since he has Supersonic speed despite he has fought with Jonathan, aka a Hypersonic

Speedwagon is 9-B for beating a zombie and surviving at a Jonathan's kick, the same Jonathan who fought against Dio in the burning resort, so his tier should be changed at 8-C.

William should have "Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and reactions" because he moved faster than Pre-Hamon training Jonathan's eye but he still attacks and reacts at Supersonic+ speed


So we have :

Jonathan Joestar's speed: Hypersonic+ --> Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and reactions in both his versions

Speedwagon's tier: 9-B in both AP and Durability --> Likely 8-C in both AP and Durability

Speedwagon's speed: Likely Hypersonic --> Likely Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and reactions (we're still not sure if he can still be blitzed by hamon users)

Part 1 Dio's speed: Supersonic with Hypersonic attack speed and reactions --> Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and reactions

Will Anthonio Zeppeli's speed: Hypersonic+ --> At least Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and reactions

Tarkus's speed: At least Hypersonic+ --> At least Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and reactions

Bruford's speed: Supersonic --> Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and reactions

Tonpetty's speed: At least Hypersonic+ --> At least Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and reactions

Dire's speed: Hypersonic+ --> Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and reactions

Phantom Blood Straizo's speed: Hypersonic+ --> Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and reactions

ABOUT BATTLE TENDENCY

I've seen the Joseph and Kars profiles and they have MFTL reaction.

But there's an issue.

The MFTL feats basically don't exist, the calcs which justify the MFTL reactions just leads to FTL and FTL+ reactions.

Also character who scale from Pre-Training Joseph (Santana and BT Straizo) shouldn't have FTL+ reaction, since Joseph has FTL+ reactions only in his Post-Training version.

For obvious reasons all the Hypersonic/Hypersonic+ speed in the Part 2 profiles should be changed too for the same reasons of Phantom Blood characters

Caesar should have like Joseph Pre-Training and Post-Training versions since he was Joseph's training partner.

Stroheim has Lighspeed attack only via Ultra-Violet Ray Blast, he doesen't attack always at Lightspeed, he can only have that speed only via that attack


So we have:

Pre-Training Joseph's speed: Hypersonic --> Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and reactions

Post-Training Joseph's speed: Hypersonic with Massively FTL reactions --> Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and FTL+ reactions

Battle Tendency Straizo's speed: At least Hypersonic+ with Massively FTL reactions --> Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and reactions

As I said before, Caesar should have the same Joseph's versions, so for Caesar we have:

Pre-Training Caesar's speed: Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and reactions

Post-Training Caesar's speed: Hypersonic with Massively FTL reactions --> Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and FTL+ reactions


Lisa Lisa's speed: Hypersonic with Massively FTL reactions --> Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and FTL+ reactions

Stroheim's speed: Hypersonic with Lighspeed attack speed --> Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and reactions, Speed of Light attack speed with Ultra-Violet Ray Blast

Santana's speed: Hypersonic with Massively FTL reactions --> Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and reactions

Wamuu's speed: Hypersonic with Massively FTL reactions --> Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and FTL+ reactions

Esidisi's speed: Hypersonic with Massively FTL reactions --> Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and FTL+ reactions

Kars' speed (in both his forms): Hypersonic with Massively FTL reactions --> Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and FTL+ reactions
 
Being a stand user doesn't amplify your reactions. On another note, the 10-A characters should be downgraded to 10-B, as there is zero justification for their current rating.
 
The God Of Procrastination said:
Being a stand user doesn't amplify your reactions. On another note, the 10-A characters should be downgraded to 10-B, as there is zero justification for their current rating.
Click to expand...
It does actually.

You're telling me Jotaro or Koichi before having their stands had MFTL reactions?
 
I don't think it's ever stated that they do. It seems to me it would be more unlikely that they did unless stated otherwise. I could be looking at it incorrectly though. The fact that Joseph could fight against Ultimate Kars makes me think that they do not.
 
Blackcurrant91 said:
I don't think it's ever stated that they do. It seems to me it would be more unlikely that they did unless stated otherwise. I could be looking at it incorrectly though. The fact that Joseph could fight against Ultimate Kars makes me think that they do not.
Click to expand...
It's implied tbh, it's absolutely illogical that Jotaro had MFTL reactions before having Star Platinum, so any human in JJBA would have MFTL reactions

Also for the Joseph vs Kars thing, that's because any hamon user who's on Battle Tendecy's level has FTL+ reaction (and that's another factor about how stands>>hamon users)
 
Jotaro having MFTL reactions doesn't mean any human would also. Jojo bloodline is physically on par with supernatural vampires. That doesn't maket to much sense either.
 
Blackcurrant91 said:
Jotaro having MFTL reactions doesn't mean any human would also. Jojo bloodline is physically on par with supernatural vampires. That doesn't maket to much sense either.
Click to expand...
I'm not referring only to Jotaro, but also about any stand user before having their stand, for example Koichi or everyone else who gained the stand with the arrow.

They had MFTL reactions even before getting boosted by the arrow? Obv not
 
It does actually.

You're telling me Jotaro or Koichi before having their stands had MFTL reactions?

Koichi was able to follow Jotaro vs Josuke, from what I remember.
 
The God Of Procrastination said:
Being a stand user doesn't amplify your reactions. On another note, the 10-A characters should be downgraded to 10-B, as there is zero justification for their current rating.
Click to expand...
You mean the athlete level ones? If you want, they can probably just put down that they are pretty fit. Most of them are trained/skilled assassins, professional mobsters/hitmen, prisoners who should presumably be able to hold their own in a prison fight stands aside, etc. If you are talking about the random ass kids in Morioh or people like that, then sure, but anyone who fights semi professionally or on a decently regular basis should still be 10-A.
 
The God Of Procrastination said:
Being a stand user doesn't amplify your reactions. On another note, the 10-A characters should be downgraded to 10-B, as there is zero justification for their current rating.
Click to expand...
You mean the athlete level ones? If you want, they can probably just put down that they are pretty fit. Most of them are trained/skilled assassins, professional mobsters/hitmen, prisoners who should presumably be able to hold their own in a prison fight stands aside, etc. If you are talking about the random ass kids in Morioh or people like that, then sure, but anyone who fights semi professionally or on a decently regular basis should still be 10-A.
 
Koichi was are to follow Jotaro vs Josuke, from what I remember.
In the Jotaro vs Josuke fight Koichi wasn't in the place of the fight.
 
I disagree with Speedwagon being 8-C. Jonathan wasn't 8-C when he first "fought" Dio. He legit had to use the mansion itself to harm Dio.

The two were in no way, shape or form comparable to Dio at the time.
 
I don't even know if Jonathan was 9-B at the beginning of the series, though he probably was by scaling him to Speedwagon.

Anyways, that would be kind of redundant IMO.
 
That vampire didn't even put his full strength that "hit", yet Dio got sent flying and was shocked about his power.

It definitely doesn't scale to him.
 
DMB 1 said:
I don't even know if Jonathan was 9-B at the beginning of the series, though he probably was by scaling him to Speedwagon.
Anyways, that would be kind of redundant IMO.
Click to expand...
I don't think that, 3 versions of a character aren't that much., also between Pre-Hamon (or how that version would be called) Jonathan and Pre-Deep Pass Overdrive there's still a great difference

There are profiles with 6-8 versions like Naruto/Bleach top tiers.
 
Agree with the downgrade in Part 1

They are all Hypersonic for a Supersonic+ feat


But not so much with the Part 2 downgrade. If Old Joseph can react to Polnareff, sure his Peak would be faster
 
I disagree with MFTL reactions for a reason.


Characters like Koichi, Yukako or Jolyne, who got their stand with the arrow, it's pretty obvious they hadn't MFTL reactions before gaining their stand.

That's why I think part 2 Joseph hans't MFTL reactions. He has at best FTL+ reactions, only the stand gives you MFTL reactions
 
Young Joseph is definitely stronger and faster than Old Joseph. Also, I really don't get this "they weren't reacting to MFTL+ before they got their stand". There is nothing implied that supports this, plus the characters that were used as examples weren't blitzed by the arrow. Koichi and Yukako were caught by surprise by the arrow as they weren't looking and Jolyne only pricked herself.
 
Seems like the downgrades accepted are only the Hypersonic/Hypersonic+ changed in Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed but not the reaction speed change of BT characters so we have now:

The PB downgrade: Hypersonic/Hypersonic+ --> Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed

The BT downgrade: Hypersonic/Hypersonic+ with MFTL reactions --> Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and MFTL reactions

Speedwagon is still at 9-B

Now the only thing left is stroheim, nobody talked about him (and he should have now as speed "Subsonic travel speed with Supersonic+ attack speed and MFTL reactions, Speed of Light attack speed with Ultra-Violet Ray Blast")
 
Standuser081 said:
Young Joseph is definitely stronger and faster than Old Joseph. Also, I really don't get this "they weren't reacting to MFTL+ before they got their stand". There is nothing implied that supports this, plus the characters that were used as examples weren't blitzed by the arrow. Koichi and Yukako were caught by surprise by the arrow as they weren't looking and Jolyne only pricked herself.
Click to expand...
Shouldn't the same to Dio though?

After all, Part 1 Dio > Part 3 DIO (Before absorbing Joseph's blood)
 
So Part 1's top tier would be listed as "'''Subsonic''' with '''Massively FTL''' reactions and combat speed" scaling from DIO?
 
Also, question: does DIO's ever resisted a hit from SP?

I only can remember SP smacking DIO with his attack

Heck, even Jotaro handled TW's hits better
 
Dio never tanked a direct hit from Star Platinum, not even after sucking Joseph's blood.

What is kind of impressive though is him being able to match SP's strength with by "elbowing" the SteamRoller... yes, without using the World.
 
Then his only 8-C feat is being above Tarkus (0.76 tons of TNT - 8-C) in Part 1?


Yeah, maybe he can scale in AP from SP


Although... I never understood why SP was Bulding level+, his calc is 1.07, while + is at 1.125. Not a big difference yeah, but why?
 
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