JoJo Bizarre Adventure Revisions (Valentine/Johnny downgrade)

[Antvasima]

Okay, so you do not think that Funny's barriers should scale from Johnny?

 

[ProfessorLord]

Yes. It should remain unknown, and cannot scale from Johnny since it wasn't the infinite energy aspect that bypassed love train, it was spacial manipulation hax.

I really do want to refute lapitus so theres no disagreement but this thread is really long already and I've spammed my logic enough. If he has a different way of thinking so be it, unfortunately very few people agree with him at this point in time. Ive debunked and explained his argument already he just disagrees with semantics and phrasing.

Johnny and Gyro are high 3-A no matter what. We can call a vote to see if people agree with my proposal on Valentine more or lapitus's logic. I'd say first to seven should win, in the style of a versus thread.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Professor I thought we agreed that Gyro's was different from Johnny's?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@lapitus Because the light itself is not a universe, the light is a gateway

but they are made of dimensional barriers, which I already gave scans as proof that they are not gate ways, since only misfortune passes through them. The physical attacks do not. and don't forget, when Valentine was interacting with the barrier, we see that he doesn't transport through it like a portal or gate way like you describe. He needs to use D4C to teleport through it, otherwise anyone could walk into Love Train and move to the next universe, but they can't. Your belief that the barrier is a portal that BFRs the attacks themselves is pure head canon, nothing more

 

[Kahndaq_Lord]

I will have to agree with Iapitus on Love Train's Durability scale and Johnny's AP for Tusk Act 4. Gyro's case seems a little bit weird for me, so i am neutral on that. About DIO and Kira, Lord's points seem reasonable for me.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I don't have much time for writing long justifications. I simply think that the arguments brought forth make sense.
Johnny seems to have infinite 3D energy, but not remotely the power to destroy infinite universal space-time continuums.

As for Funny Valentine, I am uncertain whether his barrier should scale from Johnny's attack potency, or simply be considered as an unquantifiable hax, but am currently leaning towards the former.

Many of the arguemnts brought forth are self contradictory, and outright ignore direct statements in story.

First off, its potency based, not raw DC based. and iirc, its was stated that Gyro could destroy Love Train, which as we know, the light of love train contains infinite universes. (If you want proof again that it isn't just a portal since the physical attacks don't get teleported away, just ask).

Well, his barrier does hold infinite universes in it. if we low ball, 4D objects limited by 3D space is High 3-A right?

 

[Antvasima]

@ProfessorLord

These threads usually require quite a lot of repetition before they are settled.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@lapitus Again, his barrier does not hold infinite universes and was never stated or shown to do so at any point in the story, its just portals to infinite universes

 

[ProfessorLord]

@Professor I thought we agreed that Gyro's was different from Johnny's?

Ballbreaker is different from Tusk, yes.

However both of them have access to the super spin and thus the infinite rotation, Gyro was even going to use it to destoy Love Train and Valentine acknowledged it, IRC. That's the reasoning behind both of them being high 3-A.

@Lapitus

The light of Love Train is not proof that it "contains" infinite universes, it's equally as likely to just be mirage/image of whatever universe is on the other side of Love Train, which would mean it's a gateway to said universe. Saying "we can see the universes in the light" does not mean the light is made up of the universes, baseline assumption is that it is at least a gateway to other universes until proven otherwise. I've checked all your scans, the closest thing is him saying it's made up of "dimensional walls" which implies walls seperating various dimensions, which of course, implies a gateway.

Yes, we know IR only has 3-A attack potency and not destructive capacity.

In theory yes, his barrier being a gateway to different universes implies infinite 3D dominion over 4D objects, which would imply high 3-A durability, this logic is correct. I agree, but most others think it's best if we just label it as "hax", which I'm not entirely opposed to and I agree with as well. It's what the majority think and they're not wrong, so I think it's best if we just take this route and explain Love Train in greater detail on his profile.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Professor is correct

So Infinite Rotation for Johnny and Gyro is High 3-A and Spatial Manipulation and Funny's barrier is Unknown are we in agreement?

 

[ProfessorLord]

Professor is correct
So Infinite Rotation for Johnny and Gyro is High 3-A and Spatial Manipulation and Funny's barrier is Unknown are we in agreement?

Agree with Johnny and Gyro, how about we add a "likely High Universal" to Funny's durability? Based on me and lapitus's reasoning? I can summarize the reasoning in a few sentences for the profile if needs be. I only want to add it just so people know there is a theoretical quantifiable limit to Love Train if they haven't read SBR before, just so Valentine isn't wanked too hard.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Im still kinda doubtfu that its High 3-A in durability as it was explicitly unable to stop infinite energy

 

[ProfessorLord]

Im still kinda doubtfu that its High 3-A in durability as it was explicitly unable to stop infinite energy

Well like I said, that's the EXACT limit for Love Train's durability. If you were to add even a insignificant amount of 4D power (on the wiki's basis that limited 4D power > infinite 3D power) you should be able to bypass Love Train.

Think of it this way, an infinite amount of energy being disperesed among an infinite amount of universes would theoretically take an infinite amount of time. So while technically infinite energy "should" break through Love Train, it would have taken an impossible amount of time. Basically, it's at the greatest higharchy of high 3-A possible.

 

[Arigarmy]

@Professor I thought we agreed that Gyro's was different from Johnny's?

What do you mean? The only difference between their Infinite Rotation is the underlying power that went with the spin. Johnny has nail shots and Gyro has weird cell manipulation, but it's still the same Infinite Rotation put behind it.

 

[ProfessorLord]

@Arigarmy he's already in agreement with high 3-A Johnny and Gyro now.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Professor Yes but Johnny's Infinite Rotation isnt 4-D, its infinite 3-D energy and it was able to bypass the barrier

I understand what youre saying but the problem is the barrier itself does not have durability, it has a limit to which it can redirect attacks. It may be better to just add its limit to its description in the notable attacks section rather than give it a durability rating for a feat that isnt durability

 

[ProfessorLord]

@Professor Yes but Johnny's Infinite Rotation isnt 4-D, its infinite 3-D energy and it was able to bypass the barrier
I understand what youre saying but the problem is the barrier itself does not have durability, it has a limit to which it can redirect attacks. It may be better to just add its limit to its description in the notable attacks section rather than give it a durability rating for a feat that isnt durability

Alright I'm fine with this.

Are most people in agreement for high 3-A Gyro and Johnny and Unknow Valentine durability while clarifying it's theoretical limit in the notable attacks section?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Sounds alright to me

 

[ProfessorLord]

What are we waiting for? Antvasima to confirm? Someone to object, if so, how long do we wait?

 

[Arigarmy]

nah their pages are just locked

 

[Antvasima]

I will unlock them for you. Are there any other Jojo pages that need to be unlocked?

 

[ProfessorLord]

Nah, thanks Ant.

Revision concluded I guess.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, somebody needs to update he pages first.

 

[ProfessorLord]

I've gone ahead and finished the Valentine page, you can check my work if you have any objections.

Currently working on Johnny and then Gyro later.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[ProfessorLord]

Just finished Johnny and Gyro, changed their attack potency and tier to high 3-A.

Finished Valentine, changed his durability to Unknown, clarified the fact that his wall is a gateway to other universes, not made up of universes, and mentioned it's theoretical limits in the ability section under Misfortune Redirection.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the help.

 

[ProfessorLord]

EZPZ REVISION

Took a few days but it got done.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Long overdue, bout time we got these changed

 

[ProfessorLord]

This automatically makes me an administrator right?

My first decision is to ban Antvasima.

My second is 1-A Speedwagon.

 

[Antvasima]

It probably wouldn't be smart to get rid of me. I do too much work.

 

[ProfessorLord]

It's intimidating to an up and coming administrator like myself.

Jokes aside, thread is over. Can you close this please?

If you have an issue with any of the revisions it's far past due to discuss them here, create a CRT instead.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Professor Thats...not really the kind of joke you should make, Ant puts a hell of a lot of work into this site

 

[ProfessorLord]

@Professor Thats...not really the kind of joke you should make, Ant puts a hell of a lot of work into this site

i un-kudos'd this comment

 

[Antvasima]

Eh. It's no problem. I can take a joke.

Anyway, it is probably best if we wait for Arigarmy to check that the edits are fine before closing this.

 

[Arigarmy]

I'll check them after I toy with that sockpuppet kid who keeps annoying you guys.

 

[Antvasima]

It is probably best to ignore him.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@lapitus Again, his barrier does not hold infinite universes and was never stated or shown to do so at any point in the story, its just portals to infinite universes

I have given the scan several times, how many times will you deny direct statements. He also stated at a seperate point that there are infinite universes. For the 5th time, if they were portals then the attacks themselves would pass through them. They don't, only the misfortune does. If they are portals, then explain to me why the bullets don't go into other universes, but are meerly deflected, and explain why only the misfortune that caused a house to collapse passed through. Care to explain?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Finished Valentine, changed his durability to Unknown, clarified the fact that his wall is a gateway to other universes, not made up of universes, and mentioned it's theoretical limits in the ability section under Misfortune Redirection.

If they are just portals, then why don't attacks pass through them? A gate way shouldn't delfect attacks, it should BFR them.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

snip

Literally Gyro states that there are universes in the light. The Light is Love Train. Not when Gyro says they are in the light, its your head canon that they are simply illusions, since there is no implication that they are. If there is an implication that they are meerly illusions then show some scans. If they are gateways, then they attacks should pass through to the other universe, but they don't. They bounce off the barrier but only the missfortune gets sent elsewhere. If there are infinite universes in the light, then it would take multiversal+ power to destroy or get around it, would it not? How is a barrier, a wall, that things bounce off of, a door? how does a barrier = a door? Again, its not a gateway, gateways don't have things bounce off of them, they have things pass through them. Its actually not what the majority thinks, there have been several upgrades shut down even tho the majority agreed with them, if there are a few mods on the other side then it can still be shut down.