• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

JoJo Bizarre Adventure Revisions (Valentine/Johnny downgrade)

Status
Not open for further replies.
The jojo multiverse has infinite universes, which means intinife universes with an infinite number of space-times. He's not sending it to a different multiverse, he's sending it to a different universe IN the multiverse.

Redirecting an attack into another universe isnt a High 3-A feat, its not a quantifiable feat at all, its hax
 
But he hasn't demonstrated power or any degree of control over re-directing it across time. The "universal clock" a universe is at is what he has to work with. If he hasn't demonstrated the power to re-direct misfortune/damage across time as well as space it is wrong to assume he can, he has only demonstrated the power to re-direct it across infinite space = high 3-A

I just quantified it for you. There's a limit to how much he can re-direct, which happens to be exactly an infinite amount of 3-D power. If you have an attack that is greater than an infinite amount of 3-D power (ie any quantifiable amount of 4-D power) you should be able to break through without him re-directing it. Any attack higher than the high 3-A rating Love Train has should be able to break through.
 
He doesnt need to send it across time. Youre severely overthinking this. Redirecting an attack to one of an infinite number of universes is not High 3-A, its not a quantifiable feat at all, its just hax, it wouldnt get a tier.

If it cant redirect an infinite amount of energy then the barrier cant be High 3-A
 
I agree with Weekly. Regardless, Johnny, Valentine, Dio and Zeppeli should be unlocked, correct? Should I do this, so Arigarmy can handle the changes?
 
You're right, he wouldn't get a tier for it. Like the fourth time I'm saying this.

It would lower his durability from Multiversal+ (which implies he can send it across space and time throughout an infinite amount of universes, untrue and unfounded) to High Universal (which implies he can send it across the space throughout an infinite amount of universes, verified and true).

Love Train functions as his durability for all intensive purposes. It would say in his durability section: "High Universal with Love Train."

It's limit is EXACTLY re-directing an infinite amount of energy. Like I said in a previous post, attacking him with an infinite amount of energy would be dispersed among an infinite amount of universes, and such, would take an infinite amount of time to do so. An attack that takes an infinite amount of time to bypass Love Train effectively can't. To bypass you'd need higher dimensional power.

Last time I'll say this I hope, RE-DIRECTING AN ATTACK ACROSS AN INFINITE AMOUNT OF UNIVERSES HAS A HIGH 3-A LIMIT, IT'S QUANTIFIABLE.
 
@Ant

I'd really not touch anything on Johnny yet.

Dio needs some key updating and a new rep for his high/awakened form. His Regenerationn needs to be worked around as well. Gyro just needs Unknown for Ballbreaker's physicality. The others are unlocked so it won't be much of a challenge for Kira and Jonathan.
 
He wouldnt get an anything for it as the barrier itself is not that durable, all it is is passive spatial manipulation that send attacks to another universe to redirect them instead of tanking the attacks directly
 
Okay. I will unlock Dio Brando and Gyro Zeppeli for you then.
 
I'll try differently.

If it was vague spacial manipulation and we weren't told anything else, then yes, it would be considered plain hax and unquantifiable.

Instead, we're told it sends it across an infinite amount of universes. This inherently gives it a quantifiable limit, if you have an attack that can overpower an infinite amount of space, then you can harm Love Train. Control over an infinite amount of space/3-D = high 3-A, so to harm him you'd need a 2-C attack minimum, aka, space + time/a degree of 4-D power.

It has a CLEAR logical limit. We should just downgrade Valentine's current durability instead of removing it and lending it to hax.
 
@ProfessorLord

We tend to count such feats as unquantifiable hax, as they are not destructive or creative in nature.
 
Still, if Johnny barely managed to get through the shield by using infinite energy, I suppose that we might be able to scale to High 3-A from that.

What do you think Arigarmy?
 
But it has a clear quantifiable limit? Any degree of 4-D > Love Train according to the wiki rules. Read my previous post.

If someone else other than Weekly disagrees with me and provides reasoning like him I'll concede.
 
Dude my knowledge on dimensional stuff is bare minimum, I'd rather not try to speak on something that I have no idea on how it applies here.

Should High DIO's The World be the same tier, or At least 8-B, because that'd probably bring some more arguments regarding Star Platinum being the one that finished it off. Unless its durability is just the same after drinking Joseph's blood.
 
No Ant you got it all wrong. Johnny did not manage to get through Love Train with the infinite energy from his Infinite Rotation, he got through it because Infinite Rotation also carries greater spacial manipulation hax than Love Train. How do I know this? Because like I said before, an attack with infinite energy dispersed among an infinite amount of space would take an infinite amount of time, and therefore Johnny couldn't have gotten through Love Train without greater spacial manipulation hax as well. To clarify, Infinite Rotation carries infinite energy and spacial manipulation. And before you ask yes, it still qualifies for high 3-A. Just making sure you understand the logic and reasoning behind it.

@Arigarmy

His tier would likely remain the same, since most if not all of his combat strength comes from The World. DIO is physically superior to Jotaro, yet The World and Star Platinum are largely equal. Perhaps High DIO would be physically superior, but it would only warrant a "likely higher" at current. (until I can get the scans J-Man had provided me, then I'll prove how High DIO has equal strength and regen to phantom blood dio)
 
yup

I've edited Jonathan's page to include the deep pass overdrive and linked Zeppeli's page as well, so people have scans and info on the specific ability that boosted him.

Also made the Kira changes.
 
I'm thinking At least 8-B on High DIO, but 8-B on The World. DIO did say he was "stronger than ever before", but The World was still baby sauce against Star Platinum.
 
I think that we have to consider the dispersal of infinite energy not taking infinite time as a fictional plot convenience that we shouldn't overthink too much.
 
Antvasima said:
I think that we have to consider the dispersal of infinite energy not taking infinite time as a fictional plot convenience that we shouldn't overthink too much.
Click to expand...
You can't cherry pick when you want to apply real life physics to anime.

You either apply physics 100%, or apply physics 0%, which defeats the purpose of vsbattles.
 
Just a joke, you can see him punching with his left fist. Yeah he rivaled Plat, not a single World in sight.
 
We can apply mathematical equations for lower tiers, but High 3-A and upwards do not work that conveniently anymore. In fact, lower-tier characters moving FTL is not possible to calculate the energy of either. There are also lots of other inconsistencies within fiction that we all simply have to accept.

I would appreciate if you would drop this subject. We are not going to change our case-by-case analysis standards for your sake.
 
We can probably scale Velentine's shields from him not immediately dying when hit with infinite energy, if that is how the story went, though.
 
We don't need to question the possibility of an impossibility, we just need to calculate the feat behind it.

What's the point in having tiers abvoe 3-A with clear defined definitions if we're just going to ignore them a lot of the times?

We have answers to inconsitencies, it's called outliers. Unfortunately my proposed logic does not fit the definition of an outlier.

SBR is heavily based upon real life mathmatical theories and principles, I don't think it's a stretch to assume that in verse it would take any other infinite energy attack an infinite amount of type to bypass Love Train.
 
Antvasima said:
We can probably scale Velentine's shields from him not immediately dying when hit with infinite energy, if that is how the story went, though.
Click to expand...
Nah because infinite energy has very little destructive capacity. It just causes the affected to spin continously apart forever, which requires infinite energy.

Most people likely wouldn't immediately die, but once they seperate enough they'll die for sure.
 
It is speculation unless it is stated outright within the story itself. And real world physics only go up to High 3-A in the first place. Fiction is not nearly that restricted though.
 
Antvasima said:
It is speculation unless it is stated outright within the story itself. And real world physics only go up to High 3-A in the first place. Fiction is not nearly that restricted though.
Click to expand...
I can go at this all day but I just realized you aren't really debating the tier of infinite rotation, just arguing plot convienence. I'll concede for now.

What's the situation on Johnny and Gyro? Does anyone disagree they have high 3-A attack potency? Aren't most people in agreement of the infinite energy behind infinite rotation?
 
Well, I am going to bed now in any case.
 
would probably be really fixed once we get all this bato.to stuff off all these profiles. using third party sources when they could be shutdown isnt healthy when it could get dmca'd out of existence or shut down just cause. imgur is healthy, though.
 
ProfessorLord said:
What's the situation on Johnny and Gyro? Does anyone disagree they have high 3-A attack potency? Aren't most people in agreement of the infinite energy behind infinite rotation?
Click to expand...
 
Dude I said I can't say anything on something I don't know the complexities of. I know what Love Train is, but I got jack shit idea on how it would be described here. Dimensional tiering isn't my thing.

Why do you think all the verses I work(ed) on rarely go to the universal scale?
 
WeeklyBattles said:
snip
Click to expand...
yup, those work for me. Now I can address this.

None of those scans show him moving into a parallel world when he enters Love Train.

He redirects the misfortune, not the attacks. As you can see in the scan you gave, that wasn't the attack itself, just the missfortune of it, Gyro hits him with a steel ball and some guy gets shot.

Again, that is the misfortune, not the attack itself. Johnny shot Valentine and someone got hit with the bat. as you see in the scan

That is correct, he can jump with Love Train to other dimensions. What about it? doesn't say he is traveling to one of the worlds in the barrier. Yes, bringing his other selves back from other dimensions is one of his established abilities, but that does not say they are the universes are in the light

Yes, universal walls, that is correct. Infinite universal+ walls is multiversal+

He says it redirects the missfortune, not the attacks themselves.

Yes, he flees deeper and deeper into Love Train to try and escape, and also fleese across the multiverse. Its also true that Tusk Act 4 was screwing with Love Train since we know that once he his Valentine it was completely disabled

So how does this refute that the barrier is made of infinite universal layers or disprove his multiversal+ rating?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Nemu13
Novel kars little revision? I guess?
Replies
15
Views
2K
Chritin
Chritin
DRW001
  • Locked
Beyond's Qualitative Superiority (JORGE JOESTAR)
2
Replies
50
Views
9K
Vyfourthaccount
Vyfourthaccount
FundamentalForce
  • Locked
Jojo's Bizarre Cosmology [Part 1/???]
Replies
39
Views
2K
Animus-sama
Animus-sama
ZetsuEarly0
Funny Valentine Limited Acasuality Type 3 Addition
Replies
18
Views
3K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
Sdjlakjh
Asta vs Johnny Joestar (1-1-1)
2
Replies
40
Views
3K
Sdjlakjh
Sdjlakjh
Back
Top