JoJo Bizarre Adventure Revisions (Valentine/Johnny downgrade)

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

thanks guys for going ahead and trying to downgrade them while I'm not here. This is just like what happened ont that Medaka Box thread, I walk away for a bit and then everyone gets downgraded in a few hours

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Because it's not made of infinite universes, its made of gateways that lead to infinite unuverses

 

[Dziga]

These revisions seem reasonable.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

snip

Yes but this is Jojo, and we know from Epitaph that there is only ever one possible out come in any given time line. We know from rolling stone that Fate is absolute. You shouldn't use the term "many worlds interpritation" since that implies the branching multiverse. Put it like this, in JJBA, because fate exists there was only ever one possible out come of the senerio; the cat was either always going to live or always going to die. Now, just because there is one timeline where the cat was fated to die doesn't mean that there is another universe where he was fated to live. We know from Made in Heaven and Thoth that Jotaro was always fated to die at the end of Part 6. In that time line, DIO was always fated to lose, Kars was fated to end up the Ultimate Life form and get stuck in the vacuum of space, Anasui was fated to murder his girlfriend and her lover, Josuke was fated to survive his encounter with Kira, and Weather Report was fated to turn most of the city into snails with rainbows. There is also a timeline where DIO is fated to achieve his Heaven Plan, kill all the Joestars in his timeline, and move on to the events of Eyes of Heaven. But their fate was ordained from even the start of the Big Bang, and there was no way to avoid it (without King Crimson or GER anyway). So no, the DIO in universe J was fated to lie at the bottum of the ocean and then get up, screw a lot of women, and lose to Jotaro. That DIO had no other fate, but in the timeline that Heaven DIO came from, he only ever had that one possible fate as well.

If the core universe were whatever universe we were following then universe J would also be a core universe; but it isn't. There is only one core universe and that is SBR and the Jojolion universe. No, EOH is canon, but takes place in a different part of the multiverse.

I don't understand what you mean by "interact." Love Train has 4D universes in it so it is a 4D structure, if there weren't 4D universes then maybe it could be High Universal, but there is no way for a 4D object to be housed completely in 3D space. He moves along the 5th axis, and he redirects attacks along the 5th axis. define what you mean by interact

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Because it's not made of infinite universes, its made of gateways that lead to infinite unuverses

I already gave scans that they exist within the light. If they were meerly gate ways then anyone would be able to walk through them into another part of the multiverse, but they can't. All they do is redirect misfortune into another part of the multiverse

 

[ProfessorLord]

thanks guys for going ahead and trying to downgrade them while I'm not here. This is just like what happened ont that Medaka Box thread, I walk away for a bit and then everyone gets downgraded in a few hours

Nobody thinks that we should have to sit here for an unspecified amount of time while we wait for an insignificant user like yourself whom may or may not respond. If you don't want them downgraded and you have reasons for it don't walk away? It's been a couple days now.

It doesn't look like the steel balls even hit him in the scans, kind of look like they stop short. And even then, there should be infinite people in infinite universes, so this misfortune =/= damage is irrelevant in this context.

Multiverse = 4-D. 4-D implies he can re-direct damage across space and time, which has not been demonstrated. He has only re-directed damage across infinite space, not time as well, putting him at a high 3-A rating. He has only re-directed damage across infinite universes, not the multiverse, that shit wasn't even stated.

That's why his barrier isn't 2-A.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Love Train does not contain any universes

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I already gave scans that they exist within the light. If they were meerly gate ways then anyone would be able to walk through them into another part of the multiverse, but they can't. All they do is redirect misfortune into another part of the multiverse

Yes they exist within the light but the light itself is not a universe, thats like opening a portal and you see the world on the other side and then arguing that the portal itaelf is that world.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Love Train does not contain any universes

interesting head canon, but for the 3rd time, its stated that it does.

You yourself admitted that their are infinite universal barriers that make up love train, and you would have to pierce or destroy them all the be able to get to Valentine

 

[WeeklyBattles]

There aren't infinite barriers and there are no universes within Love Train, there is one barrier that serves as a gateway to infinite universes

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

snip

I have a Job, and I was going to sleep. do you actually expect me to sit here and not sleep or work just to sit on this wiki? I've been taking incremental breaks, literally I was just complaining that they were going to be applied without a chance to respond. I'm more pissed that this is like the 3rd or 4th something like this has happened

they bounced off the light, look again. If they did stop short, its cuz they didn't reach Valentine. Why would there being infinite people in any way discount what I said?

No, multiverse on this wiki are infinite 4D universes along the 5th axis. Ask Ant. He doesn't need to move them across time.

Them being infinite universe along the 5th axis proves they are 2-A, as you yourself just admitted. "He has only re-directed damage across infinite universes"

 

[ProfessorLord]

I should really just copy and paste cause it went over your head.

Fate IS absolute within their given universe, however, there is another universe where events happen that do not correlate with the fate of the other universe. This is how many-worlds and fate can co-exist.

Like I said before, Stephen Hawking once said "just because there are an infinite amount of universes, doesn't mean there is a universe where xyz happens" or something to that effect. So you are correct in a sense when you say DIO never wins and that's because of fate, while true, it's not because of fate technically, it's because of a statistical anomaly. I doubt it though, odds are against a universe in which DIO doesn't do something that doesn't correlate with the "core" universe.

Speaking of core universes, everyone in the SBR/Jojo universe would call their universe the "core" universe, from their perspective it is. However, in SBR, there is only one universe in which the corpse parts exists, lending credibility to a more "core" universe. That's just SBR, dunno about main universe having a "core" one that isn't just the one we follow. EOH takes place in a different canon altogether, not a different universe.

What you're suggesting is Love Train is made up of infinite universes = embodiment of infinite space and time = control over infinite 4-D = 2-A. This is wrong, Weekly already pointed out many times throughout the thread (even I condeded once I realized he was right) that it's a gateway, and not physically made up of it. Therefore, it's more accurate to say:

Love Train is a gateway to infinite universes = control over infinite space = control over infinite 3-D = high 3-A.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Professor LT doesn't have control over infinite space, being able to redirect an attack to different universes doesn't mean you automatically control all space within those universes

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

There aren't infinite barriers and there are no universes within Love Train, there is one barrier that serves as a gateway to infinite universes

Again, that's some nice head canon, but its literally stated in the scan I have given 3 times. I can give you the quote where you said there were multiple barriers

"Funny flat out states that D4C's barrier is made of dimensional walls. Twice...

Another statement of D4C's barrier being made of dimensional walls...

Another statement of D4C's barrier being dimensional walls"

 

[ProfessorLord]

@Professor LT doesn't have control over infinite space, being able to redirect an attack to different universes doesn't mean you automatically control all space within those universes

When I say control over infinite space, I mean that his Love Train has the ability to re-direct misfortune across infinite space, which demonstrates power over infinite space to some degree, even if it can't be used for anything other than a warp.

I'm fine with removing durability tier from Valentine and just keeping it solely hax.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I have more work calls to make, don't downgrade anything until I get back and get a chance to respond

 

[WeeklyBattles]

When I say control over infinite space, I mean that his Love Train has the ability to re-direct misfortune across infinite space, which demonstrates power over infinite space to some degree, even if it can't be used for anything other than a warp.

I'm fine with removing durability tier from Valentine and just keeping it solely hax.

Its not power over infinite space, it means he has a range of Multiversal+ as he can redir3ct attacks to infinite universes

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@lapitus Not once does he say there are infinite bareiers nor does he say there is more than one

 

[ProfessorLord]

I have more work calls to make, don't downgrade anything until I get back and get a chance to respond

Majority rules man, nobody is really making any guarentees for you.

How is him saying it is made up of dimensional walls mean it's made up of infinite universes? A dimensional wall just means a wall seperating dimensions, does it not? Is that literally not what a gateway is...?

 

[Hykuu]

i agree with Iapitus here.

 

[ProfessorLord]

i agree with Iapitus here.

How do you un-kudos a comment? xd

But can I ask why? Majority of people in thread were agreement with Love Train not being 2-A, can you explain to me why you think Love Train should be 2-A?

I'll say again, Love Train being made up of dimensional walls = Love Train being made up of multiple walls seperating dimensions = Love Train being a gateway to dimensions. Lapitus's logic is incorrect.

 

[Arigarmy]

thanks guys for going ahead and trying to downgrade them while I'm not here. This is just like what happened ont that Medaka Box thread, I walk away for a bit and then everyone gets downgraded in a few hours

And who said you being away should halt arguments that progress the thread?

 

[Torlikoff]

Off topic to the infinite rotation argument, but shouldn't the abilities for Dio's third key just be "All previous abilities, but on a much higher scale"? It seems redundant as is.

 

[Arigarmy]

The only things that increased are his Time Stop length and Regenerationn.

 

[Torlikoff]

Also the fact that a steamroller is listed as his standard equipment is hilarious, but probably should be removed.

 

[Arigarmy]

Dude he literally stole the knives from a resturaunt, might as well nuke them too if you wanna keep going.

 

[Torlikoff]

He didn't exactly carry the road roller in his pockets, but the knives he reasonably could and did carry around wit him.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that Johnny Joestar should be High 3-A, and Funny Valentine should have either High 3-A or Unknown durability.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

And who said you being away should halt arguments that progress the thread?

I didnt say that tho, show me where I did? What i resented was the things being applied or being about to be applied. Essentially reaching a conclusion without giving people a chance to refute

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@lapitus Not once does he say there are infinite bareiers nor does he say there is more than one

He said there are multiple dimensional barriers. He also said there are infinite universes in the light. Literally in the scan that you gave, you say that he says there are multiple barriers. Why are you contradicting yourself?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Majority rules man, nobody is really making any guarentees for you.

How is him saying it is made up of dimensional walls mean it's made up of infinite universes? A dimensional wall just means a wall seperating dimensions, does it not? Is that literally not what a gateway is...?

Actually, it really doesnt. Not on this wiki anyway, there have been many upgrades blocked even tho the majority thinks it should go through

Taking that out of context, its him saying there are infinite universes in the light that I am refering to. No, a dimensional wall can also mean a wall that is itself made of or is a dimension. Either way, no, a barrier is not a gate way, at least not in the way you likely mean.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

But can I ask why? Majority of people in thread were agreement with Love Train not being 2-A, can you explain to me why you think Love Train should be 2-A?

I'll say again, Love Train being made up of dimensional walls = Love Train being made up of multiple walls seperating dimensions = Love Train being a gateway to dimensions. Lapitus's logic is incorrect.

I didnt realise we were calling out people who were saying they agree FRA. If thats the case then I shall do they same, since you set this presidence

Thats not even close to equivolent lol. One, if there are mutliple walls of universes protecting him then great. We know from the statement that there are infinite universes in the light. Wall arent gate ways, why would they be? It makes no sense in this context since Valentine cant pass into the walls without D4C. Anyone would be able to pass through the multiverse if they were, but they cant

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I also think that Johnny Joestar should be High 3-A, and Funny Valentine should have either High 3-A or Unknown durability.

Would you mind explaining why you believe this? I know you are better than simply agreeing with something because it is the majority or because a mod thinks something. Would you mind explaining your rational for this opinion?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Anyway, I'm heading to sleep now i got work in the morning but I'll refute any counters when I get back. Kindly don't close the thread or apply anything that is still being argued; thanks

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Oh, and sorry for the post broken up into several. I'm on mobile right now, so I can't exactly format my comments the way i usually would. Y'all aren't so petty over something like that, so I shouldn't have anything to worry about kek

 

[Antvasima]

I don't have much time for writing long justifications. I simply think that the arguments brought forth make sense.

Johnny seems to have infinite 3D energy, but not remotely the power to destroy infinite universal space-time continuums.

As for Funny Valentine, I am uncertain whether his barrier should scale from Johnny's attack potency, or simply be considered as an unquantifiable hax, but am currently leaning towards the former.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I also agree with Weekly.

 

[PolarKid]

i agree with lapitus

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@lapitus Because the light itself is not a universe, the light is a gateway

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Ant I believe at this point we've agreed that Johnny would have High 3-A AP and spatial manipulation with Infinite Rotation and Funny's barrier would be Unknown as it doesnt have a durability in a conventional sense due to the way it works