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JoJo Bizarre Adventure Revisions (Valentine/Johnny downgrade)

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I will just copypaste:

(Also thanks @Weekly)

His ability is hax based, not durability.

I dont understand why its scaled to his durability. Redirecting misfortune in a multiversal scale =/= multiversal durability. Tusk act 4 and Ball breaker didnt bust a infinite sized multiverse.

These three are inaccurate and/or speculative.

Even if they pierced through infinite dimensions, they didnt bust them at all. At most it'd be High 3-A, and that's assuming Funny's shield is absolutely infinite, which can be put into question as Funny stated that he must go "deeper" to escape from Tusk, implying the shield's infinity couldnt be accessed at will.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Not necessarily no, essentially what the wall is is a gateway to other universes, its not made up of the universes themselves. Essentially all Infinite Rotation would get from bypassing the barrier is good spatial manipulation
Click to expand...
^this
 
PaChi2 said:
I will just copypaste:
(Also thanks @Weekly)

His ability is hax based, not durability.

I dont understand why its scaled to his durability. Redirecting misfortune in a multiversal scale =/= multiversal durability. Tusk act 4 and Ball breaker didnt bust a infinite sized multiverse.

These three are inaccurate and/or speculative.

Even if they pierced through infinite dimensions, they didnt bust them at all. At most it'd be High 3-A, and that's assuming Funny's shield is absolutely infinite, which can be put into question as Funny stated that he must go "deeper" to escape from Tusk, implying the shield's infinity couldnt be accessed at will.
Click to expand...
Love Train has both a hax component and a durability component. I thought the same thing at first, and then I found that, even hax aside, Valentine harnesses Love Train as an actual physical barrier that also reflect misfortune, reflection aside. For Part 8 Johnny's version of Love Train/Saint Powers, you are correct, there is no actual durability component and its just raw hax (btw Johnny needs to get his Part 8 key, I have all the scans set for that )

Valentine said Gyro could have completely destroyed Love Train, so its not just about piercing. Don't forget that Valentine needs to move closer to the edge of the barrier to attack. There are Higher degrees of multiversal+, do not forget that, as well.
 
Funny going through the light and into a parallel universe immediately after obtaining Love Trai

While Funny is in his barrier, all damage gets redirected somewhere else, which as demonstrated by D4CLT deflecting Gyro's attack, sends it to a parallel universe

Same thing happens here

Gyro states that Funny uses D4CLT's power to travel to neighboring dimensions to avoid attacks, then Funny brings back other versions of himself from different dimensions

Funny tries to hide D4C inside the light to avoid it taking damage

Funny flat out states that D4C's barrier is made of dimensional walls. Twice

Funny flat out stating that attacks directed towards him get sent away by D4C's barrier of light

Another statement of D4C's barrier being made of dimensional walls

Funny explaining that the light is a dimensional wall that sends attacks away

Another statement of D4C's barrier being dimensional walls

As Tusk Act 4 is crossing the dimensional wall Funny contemplates fleeing through the light of D4C's wall and into one of the infinite parallel universes to avoid being hit, which he ends up doing dozens of times to try to avoid Johnny's Infinite Rotatio
 
Funny going through the light and into a parallel universe immediately after obtaining Love Trai

While Funny is in his barrier, all damage gets redirected somewhere else, which as demonstrated by D4CLT deflecting Gyro's attack, sends it to a parallel universe

Same thing happens here

Gyro states that Funny uses D4CLT's power to travel to neighboring dimensions to avoid attacks, then Funny brings back other versions of himself from different dimensions

Funny tries to hide D4C inside the light to avoid it taking damage

Funny flat out states that D4C's barrier is made of dimensional walls. Twice

Funny flat out stating that attacks directed towards him get sent away by D4C's barrier of light

Another statement of D4C's barrier being made of dimensional walls

Funny explaining that the light is a dimensional wall that sends attacks away

Another statement of D4C's barrier being dimensional walls

As Tusk Act 4 is crossing the dimensional wall Funny contemplates fleeing through the light of D4C's wall and into one of the infinite parallel universes to avoid being hit, which he ends up doing dozens of times to try to avoid Johnny's Infinite Rotatio

Do these work for you?
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
I don't mean that their aren't many worlds, i mean that they aren't created because of different choices or possibility. There can't be a branching multiverse when Fate exists. When there is only 1 possible outcome of any given situation, then it would never branch off. I am aware that a quilted and branching multiverse can coexist, but they don't in Jojo's case. The infinite possible outcomes, but they only happen because of the variations, not because of branching out comes.

I am aware, stuff like Heaven DIO only existing in one timeline in the multiverse. But they are not a core universe. Also the idea of a core universe was stated by naration as well, not just Valentine iirc. I believe they called it a singularity at one point as well

I'm saying that if the universes exist within the light, then it does not matter when we see him effect. It does not make sense for there to somehow only be 3D universes within the light when we know universes in jojo all have their own space time. Your rational was based on it being a branching multiverse, I'm saying that it isn't a branching multiverse. Jojo has fate. Its literally impossible for their to only be one time line with the multiverse is branching out in all possible outcomes. if it is meerly rolling the dice an infinite number of times then it does work
Click to expand...
Technically "fate" exists within our universe as well. If you were a 4D being, you would be able to see what happens from start to end within our timeline, and how we make pre-determined decisions. The many-world interpretation can still be applied, because every time there's a possibility where the universe can differ, another universe exists where it does, even if what we do is pre-destined. And in the other parallel universe, what we do is pre-determined there too. This is how the Jojo universe works. The Joestars are "destined" to deal with Dio and his bullshit, but in another universe, they're also "destined" to ignore his bullshit and live their lives. A branching universe is the same thing as different universes because of variation. Fate and many-worlds can co-exist.

They refer to the universe that SBR starts in as a "core" universe because it's the one we're following in terms of story. That's why nararator tells us this. And like I said, corpse parts only exist in core because of statistical anomaly/divine intervention. Also EOH non-canon.

All universes are technically 4-D however Valentine has only demonstrated that he can interact with them in 3-D. (Recall 3-D = space, 4-D = space+time) Valentine has only demonstrated to access the space within the infinite universes which qualifies for high 3-A, he hasn't demonstrated he has access to all time within the universes too, which would look like him re-directing damage across all of the infinite universes past present and future, which we have not seen.
 
PaChi2 said:
I will just copypaste:
(Also thanks @Weekly)

His ability is hax based, not durability.

I dont understand why its scaled to his durability. Redirecting misfortune in a multiversal scale =/= multiversal durability. Tusk act 4 and Ball breaker didnt bust a infinite sized multiverse.

These three are inaccurate and/or speculative.

Even if they pierced through infinite dimensions, they didnt bust them at all. At most it'd be High 3-A, and that's assuming Funny's shield is absolutely infinite, which can be put into question as Funny stated that he must go "deeper" to escape from Tusk, implying the shield's infinity couldnt be accessed at will.
Click to expand...
Multiversal implies 4-D, he did not re-direct it across the multiverse, he re-directed it across infinite universes. Infinite Rotation managed to bypass a "shield" encompassing an infinite amount of universes. Since whenever Love Train is active it actively protects Valentine no matter what, his hax qualifies to function as his durability, since that's what you need to break through in order to harm him.

Yes, busting through infinite universes only qualifies for high 3-A. Funny stating he must go "deeper" to escape through Tusk was when he was hopping from parallel universes, right? That was about D4C's universe hopping ability, not Love Train IRC. He couldn't escape from the effects of the infinite rotation even after body swapping because Tusk follows your soul. Going "deeper" meant going into a more obscure/further away universe.
 
I am fine with Weekly's and Arigarmy's conclusions.
 
Arigarmy pretty much agrees with everything I've said, Weekly agrees with everything but slightly disagrees Valentine/Johhny being downgraded to high 3-A, but said he'll wait and see what other people think.
 
Oh no i agree with them being downgraded what i disagree with is them being High 3-A based off of feats of hax like PaChi said
 
I think that Weekly makes sense.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Oh no i agree with them being downgraded what i disagree with is them being High 3-A based off of feats of hax like PaChi said
Click to expand...
On Johnny's and Gyro's profile their tier would say "At least High 3-A via hax", exactly like we have it on Giorno's profile.

It doesn't make sense to put them at 8-B or whatever when they've clearly demonstrated the ability to hit leagues and leagues above their own tier. And it's not just vague damage hax, we literally are given a quantifiable amount in which they've demonstrated their attack potency with. (Infinite)

If the jojo experts and majority of others are in agreement with what I've proposed already, can I begin to add this Antvasima?
 
The problem is its not something that can have a quantifiable tier as its spatial manipulation. We're not going to make Dio 3-A via hax for time stopping the universe for example
 
That's a shitty example, DIO's range is only 3-A, obviously having universal range doesn't make you universal in tier. He'd be greatly mismatched.

Johnny's IR functions as his attack potency, so he would qualify for a high 3-A. On this wiki we usually scale a characters attack potency/destructive capacity to their tier. Johnny and Gyro would stand a chance in a lot of high 3-A fights, considering they could probably oneshot most.(assuming speed equal or that they're faster)

Infinite Rotation has infinite energy which is quantifiable.
 
Infinite energy is quantifiable as High 3-A, yes. Good point.

The question is how we should scale Funny Valentine. Teleporting/shunting away all damage to another universe is hard to properly quantify.
 
Funny Valentine would remain at his current tier. We shouldn't scale durability to tier because if your durability is leagues above your other stats, then your attack potency shouldn't be on par with that of a 3-A fighter and would result in stomps or inconclusive.

His durability would get changed from Multiversal+ with Love train to High Universal with Love Train. He's only demonstrated the ability to re-direct damage across infinite universes = re-directing damage across infinite space = infinite 3-D power = at least high 3-A. (This would mean greater hax or 4-D power is the only valid way to break through Love Train)

He would not be multiversal because that would imply re-directing damage across infinite universes and timelines (which he has not demonstrated) = re-directing damage across infinite space and time = infinite 4-D power = 2-A (This would mean greater hax or 5-D+ power is the only valid way to break through Love Train)
 
You have a point, but I am not sure. What do the rest of you think?
 
Redirecting an attack to another universe isnt a quantifiable AP feat, its just a range feat done through spatial manipulation
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Redirecting an attack to another universe isnt a quantifiable AP feat, its just a range feat done through spatial manipulation
Click to expand...
Correct, that's why I didn't mention Valentine's attack potency.

It would however be a valid feat for his durability, since there is a quantifiable limit according to what he has demonstrated.
 
Its not a durability feat either

If Johnny was able to bypass his barrier with a High 3-A attack then by definition Funny's barrier wouldnt have High 3-A durability

Funny redirects damage through spatial manipulation, he essentially has a wall of portals to the multiverse surrounding him and any attack that is thrown at him goes through those portals and ends up somewhere else in the multiverse, hence why i think that spatial manipulation would be more appropriate for Infinite Rotation than High 3-A attack potency
 
You're confused with infinite rotation.

Infinite Rotation has both Spacial Manipulaton hax and infinite energy. The two are not mutually exclusive. How do I know this? Infinite energy would not be enough to bypass Love Train's infinite universes, therefore it demonstrated an ability beyond infinite energy that managed to break through Love Train, which of course would be greater spacial manipulation hax then Valentine's.

Again, Valentine does not re-direct damage across the multiverse as it has not been stated or demonstrated. Multiverse = 4-D. He has said and demonstrated the ability to re-direct damage across infinite universes. Infinite Universes = 3-D.

So the power to re-direct damage across infinite space = at least high 3-A durability via Love Train.
 
It is probably better if Arigarmy or Weekly handle it.
 
I can unlock them for you. It is just Johnny Joestar and Funny Valentine, right?
 
What about the infinite rotation?
 
DMB 1 said:
Also, few questions, because I've just ended Part 3, and I am slightly confused:

2) The entire reason as of why part 3 Dio wasn't as physically strong as his Part 1 counterpart was because a part of Jonhathan's body "refused to accept Dio's vampirity", which has to do with Hamon still being somewhat present in Jojo's body, that's wht Dio wasn't as strong as before, and neither was his Regenerationn as potent, nor he could use his specia powers, such as the Ice touch, the Water beam etch. Once Dio bomes High Dio, does he re-obtain all of Part 1 Dio's powers, or just physical strenght and Regenerationn?
Click to expand...
 
Antvasima said:
What about the infinite rotation?
Click to expand...
I mean I debunked Weekly's argument for it not warranting a High 3-A tier because it's hax. So far Infinite Rotation qualifies for high 3-A based on it being stated and explained (with real life pseudo-mathmatical principles) to have infinite energy.

So let me clarify the revisions for you guys to go ahead put through:

Kira needs to have this in his footnote: "The "Yoshikage Kira" form does not have Bites the Dust. The "Kosaku Kawajiri" form does have Bites the Dust, please be mindful when specifying which form is used in versus threads."

Jonathan needs to have his key changed from Pre-Tarkus/Post-Tarkus to Pre-Deep Pass Overdrive/Post-Deep Pass Overdrive

Dio Brando needs a note somewhere in his profile stating that "The current High-Mid Regenerationn tier only applies to Dio Brando in his Phantom Blood incarnation. DIO in his Stardust Crusaders incarnation only has Mid tier Regenerationn."... or something to that effect. It's best if you link the scans I included in my original post as well. (J-Man has linked me some evidence suggesting Awakened DIO should have High-Mid Regenerationn too, so I'll probably share that when I get on a computer. Just ignore this side comment for now.)

Johnny Joestar and Gyro Zeppeli need to have "2-A with the Infinite Rotation" wiped from their profile and replaced with "High 3-A via Infinite Rotation" in the style of Giorno's profile. Furthermore both their attack potencies need to be replaced with High Universal, not Multiversal+. There should be no objections with this one, it's already proven how the infinite rotation = infinite energy = infinite 3-D power = high 3-A. It'd also be great if you could include it's spacial manipulation hax to be superior to that of Valentine's Love Train, seeing as how it bypassed it.

Funny Valentine needs to have his durability changed from Multiversal+ with Love Train to High Universal with Love Train. There should be no objections with this one. His Love Train for all intensive purposes functions as his durability. He's only demonstrated access to an infinite amount of universes = an infinite amount of space = infinite amount of 3-D space = high 3-A. Logically, an attack with potency higher than Valentine's durability should be able to break through the demonstrated limit of Love Train. (This could be done through a higher dimensional attack/4-D, 5-D, etc. It could also be done with greater spacial manipulation hax. A high 3-A attack like Infinite Rotation (without the spacial manipulation hax included) would NOT be able to bypass Love Train. It would take an infinite amount of time for an infinite amount of energy to be disperesed among an infinite amount of space, and therefore would take infinite seconds to bypass Love Train.)

Let me know if you have any questions.
 
DMB 1 said:
DMB 1 said:
Also, few questions, because I've just ended Part 3, and I am slightly confused:

2) The entire reason as of why part 3 Dio wasn't as physically strong as his Part 1 counterpart was because a part of Jonhathan's body "refused to accept Dio's vampirity", which has to do with Hamon still being somewhat present in Jojo's body, that's wht Dio wasn't as strong as before, and neither was his Regenerationn as potent, nor he could use his specia powers, such as the Ice touch, the Water beam etch. Once Dio bomes High Dio, does he re-obtain all of Part 1 Dio's powers, or just physical strenght and Regenerationn?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
We've ultimately decided to leave High DIO has Mid tier Regenerationn, just like DIO. For now...

Even if he did regain his Regenerationn, he still hasn't demonstrated his other vampiric abilities in Stardust Crusaders, so no, it wouldn't be accurate to assume so. My headcanon tells me it could either be him forgetting how to do it or that he actually has abilities like that, (it's been 100 years give him a break) or that Jonathan's body still resists him to a degree.
 
@Professor Look at all of the scans i posted, he does in fact rediret damage to somewhere else in the multiverse and he has done so multiple times
 
DMB 1 said:
Or that he abosred the blood of another hamon user.
Click to expand...
lol

@Weekly again you're confusing different universe with multiverse.

Multiverse implies 4-D/space and time. If he could send it to a different multiverse, that would mean sending it to another univese and in another point in time in said universe, which was not demonstrated or stated. If this was the case, infinite space + time = infinite 4-D = 2-A

What is demonstrated and said is sending it to a different universe, which is just another point in space. Infinite space = infinite 3-D = high 3-A.
 
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