Johnny Joestar and the Infinite Rotation (High 3-A poll)

[Mr. Bambu]

I didn't count Ant

And... why not? I'm not pointing out invalid votes. Pointing out ignoring votes.

 

[PaChi2]

this thread as a whole is invalid

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean yes, it basically says that majority = correct and wasn't considered at all, but still

 

[DMUA]

this thread as a whole is invalid

Let's be honest with ourselves here

Yeah kinda

 

[PaChi2]

Btw, an alternative, instead of High 3-A or 8-C, is the good old Unknown, at least 8-C, likely higher, since its clear that the Perfect rotation gives a boost to their AP, but its unknown by how much.

 

[DMB_1]

This thread is basically "I don't want to spend too much time trying to come to a definitive conclusion, so we might as well listen to the majority".

 

[ProfessorLord]

It is probably best to leave me out of the voting, yes. I am uncertain here, as both sides seem to make good arguments,

 

[ALRF]

I'd be lying if i said this thread is a good way to apply a CRT

...it's dumb

 

[ProfessorLord]

As opposed to counting old votes in a thread where arguments weren't finished.

I mean, we're all in this thread now. You're not going to apply the CRT when this thread very clearly illustrates that a greater majority disagrees with the logic in the other one.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Exept the number that agrees or not doesn't matter regardless.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Btw, an alternative, instead of High 3-A or 8-C, is the good old Unknown, at least 8-C, likely higher, since its clear that the Perfect rotation gives a boost to their AP, but its unknown by how much.

I have been supporting this from the beginning. Whether or not it has infinite energy or not, it is primarily a hax based attack

 

[Mr. Bambu]

And how many understand, and how many just want to keep their pet pages in high tiers?

Can you truly expect a group of people to vote unbiasedly in a case like this?

And I mean no offense when I say this, but I've personally seen at least one person try to explain the "Keep it" argument to me and misunderstand most terms they used. So this isn't actually a valid thing.

 

[ProfessorLord]

I mean whether or not we count votes in the old thread now or this thread now, the same people will say yes or no.

I can just close this, DM everyone and say vote in the old thread. Result will still end up being the same.

Maybe it's time to stop blaming it on popularity and consider the fact that hey maybe if a bunch of peoplr are agreeing its high 3-A, maybe it actually is.

Unless you want to stop voting altogether, go back to debating, and see which side gives up first? We're at a stalemate.

 

[PaChi2]

Unknown, at least 8-C, likely higher

Looks to me like the honest answer. The way infinite rotation is portrayed goes against the "infinite power is delivered in one blow", however, its undeniable that the nails/steel balls get stronger after using it to an unknown degree. And it's true that the spin will last indefinitely, so... thoughts?

You can add a far higher in Johnny's case since his rotation is > Gyro's.

 

[ProfessorLord]

Btw, an alternative, instead of High 3-A or 8-C, is the good old Unknown, at least 8-C, likely higher, since its clear that the Perfect rotation gives a boost to their AP, but its unknown by how much.

That's fine as well, I just said 8-C because that's what Monarch said it was and people were fine with it. I can edit OP.

 

[ProfessorLord]

See the fact that you think Johnny's is superior to Gyro proves to me you don't know what you're talking about. They both use the same attack, infinite rotation. They both followed the golden spiral perfectly. Why is Johnny's stronger?

It doesn't go against anything either, unsupported conclusion. The opponent spinning forever is because they are now imbued with the infinite rotational energy.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yes. Voting somewhere else doesn't matter. That's why we generally don't resort to publicity stunts to decide stuff like this.

 

[ProfessorLord]

VsBattles is a popularity contest in general, I dont know where this complaining is coming from. Battles are literally 35-40% logic, 60-65% which character do I like more.

And again, nobody on the againsts side would have an issue if the vote were in their favor. Its only been an issue when Monarch and others saw that more people were against them.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Battles are for fun, and no debating can be done 100% objectively, that is humanly impossible.

No matter how popular it is tough, we don't make spiderman wall level, and that is what most believe. And I have yet to see where something like High 7-C RWBY is popular.

 

[ProfessorLord]

Of course all our revisions and character pages are based on logic, but at this point we have a stalemate in said logic that revolves largely around interpretation.

The fact is we are never going to reach a 100% unanimous conclusion. So if we continue debating like this, Johnny Joestar will still remain high 3-A but hell be in a potential limbo where nobody can really use the character.

If we just put it to a vote, he may or may not be.

 

[PaChi2]

See the fact that you think Johnny's is superior to Gyro proves to me you don't know what you're talking about. They both use the same attack, infinite rotation. They both followed the golden spiral perfectly. Why is Johnny's stronger?
It doesn't go against anything either, unsupported conclusion. The opponent spinning forever is because they are now imbued with the infinite rotational energy.

https://mangarock.com/manga/mrs-serie-290642/chapter/mrs-chapter-100090852

I was referring to this. "Not a true sphere".

But after rereading it, yes, Gyro's was also complete.

Also, drop that tone of yours, it's really bugging me.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

That is still bad logic, since I'm pretty sure that if I asked the people who voted to keep it to explain the logic, half of them would give differing answers than what is being kept.

 

[ProfessorLord]

Im fine with asking people to explain their reasoning, Im not fine with witch-hunting and beratting them just because you cant understand or agree with their reasoning.

And FRA is valid reasoning.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't plan on berating people. But people voting with clearly no knowledge on one side or the other makes this voting process... incredibly bad. Which is why we don't do it.

 

[ProfessorLord]

But how do you know they have no knowledge? How do you know they havent read it?

Again, the fact that this wasnt an issue until the against side started losing really makes this seem like a desperate last attempt.

Point out to me those who clearly have no knowledge and Ill invalidate them.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't know they haven't read it. I know the person that tried to explain it to me sorta didn't explain it. I won't point out who, because they were trying and... well. Shaming a person in public is a no-go. Certain words were used extremely incorrectly.

Think what you like. After this is up I will literally forget about it the very next day and probably never interact with the characters again.

 

[ProfessorLord]

Back where we started then, voting.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Which is inherently invalid kek but carry on boyo

 

[ProfessorLord]

You had your chance for an alternative but none was chosen.

End of the day, Johnny will remain high 3-A via IR. Whether its because you want to debate forever, or because you want to take it to a vote.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

End of the day, you're wrong and using popular opinion on what is fact to allow it. Debating it results in you using circular arguments to justify High 3-A and a complete unwillingness to actually listen to people, and voting results in the knowledge that something people like will absolutely get support to stay strong when it has no right to be that way.

This doesn't affect me, and it will mean almost nothing whether we classify it as "Unknown", "8-C" or "High 3-A". It will achieve the same exact effects each and every time in a combat situation. The only difference is someone knowingly distorting information and providing evidence they did it, thus invalidating their future/past actions. Not many will see it this way, I'm sure, because they will have supported this because they like the verse and Tier 3 sounds so gosh darn nice, but it doesn't mean much. That's just what the implications are.

Personally, this is just a thread that happens in between other threads right now.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree that voting to settle a discussion seems like a bad idea for our purposes. Also, the confrontational tone should be dropped, yes.

 

[ProfessorLord]

I like your hat in your avatar @Antvasima, lol.

Then our alternative seems to be an endless back and forth until one side gets tired and drops out. Am I right? Were never going to reach a unanimous decision if these votes arent a good indication

 

[Antvasima]

We don't settle content revision discussions by voting here though. The regular members try to convince the staff, who evaluate what seems like the best solution.

 

[ProfessorLord]

So we vote by staff members... here we go

 

[Chartate101]

We don't settle content revision discussions by voting here though. The regular members try to convince the staff, who evaluate what seems like the best solution.

So what staff say goes? Well of course the staff member would say that.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"So what staff say goes? Well of course the the most objective person on the site who literally runs it and makes it possible for the site to function would say that."

FTFY.

 

[Kaltias]

No, it isn't "What staff says goes". Staff members are tasked with the evaluation of this stuff. In particular admins and discussion mods have this as part of their duties.

It's perfectly normal and it helps avoiding ratings based on popularity instead of stuff that actually makes sense. Staff members are tasked with checking each other's work, as well.

If i propose a rating, and another staff member disagrees, they'll point out the problem just like they'd do with a regular user.

Is it a perfect system? No, of course it isn't. But it works well enough

 

[Antvasima]

Kaltias is correct.

 

[Antvasima]

"So what staff say goes? Well of course the the most objective person on the site who literally runs it and makes it possible for the site to function would say that."

FTFY.

Thank you, although I am not the the most objective person in the wiki, nor am I running it. I do a large part of the organisation work though.

Basically, I have done quite a lot of serious mistakes along the way, but I try to gradually improve and learn from them.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Ant, speaking in the simplest way possible, this wiki would be fundamentally different (not for the better, I suspect) without your intervention. Same can be said for DontTalk, Dark, Prom, etc etc etc. You making mistakes does not actually change that. This isn't a kiss-up move or even admiration, this is a statement of observation.