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Jiren vs Beerus

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I also just realized how hard its going to be to match Goku or Jiren to anybody else in the verse, since there's practically no way they can be touched.
 
God knows how many statements that imply Jiren and new Goku to have surpassed the Gods, such as one coming from Whis of all people, and the Gods reactions to it.
 
Well as far as the anime, a counter to hakai hasn't been shown, Zamasu could only regenerate from it in the manga since he still had his body.
 
Unite My Rice said:
I also just realized how hard its going to be to match Goku or Jiren to anybody else in the verse, since there's practically no way they can be touched.
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Either they wreck the GoD's or anyone below 3-A. Or they get stomped by the Angels and above. Literally Goku and Jiren can only be matched against each other at this point.
 
I figured as much, but I wanted to see what the people think :^)

Even with Goku vs Jiren, it's only a stalemate if Jiren continues to fight at his current level.
 
I feel like Beerus could win with Hakai. I mean, hax is hax regardless. Both are likely equally skilled. Jiren may have a decent AP advantage, and Beerus has a hax advantage. It could go either way.
 
^I known it's non canon and all but didn't Beerus defeat all the Gods at once in the manga.
 
Except he was stalmating and still casually fighting a Goku who all the gods feared and in the anime Belmond is the god that beat Beerus if Jiren is that mortal as that mortal's god > Beerus as stated by Whis.

And then he powered up briefly.
 
Also that makes little sense, why say he surpassed the power of the gods if theres still gods right there, in plain view whis knows about, that he didnt surpass.
 
"Except he was stalmating and still casually fighting a Goku who all the gods feared"

I got the impression that they were more shocked than afraid.

"and in the anime Belmond is the god that beat Beerus"

It was a simple arm wrestling match, not a full blown fight.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
Also that makes little sense, why say he surpassed the power of the gods if theres still gods right there, in plain view whis knows about, that he didnt surpass.
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Because GoDs is a general term. Doesn't mean he utterly stomps all GoDs.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
Why not say some gods?
And at the end, the narrator says the gods fear Goku's new form.
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Because it sounds less impressive. Also surpassing someone =/= stomping them. The point I trying to get across.

I concede this point then (haven't had the chance to fully watch the episode, only clips)
 
Yeah that's true, but a super cadual, suppressed Jiren is already god tier, and Whis even says he's not even close to full power after the Whis and Belmond >God statements were made. So not only do we know jiren is stronger than most of them, but right after we have Whis say yeah, he's not even trying.


Then we see jiren casually block Ultra Goku's final, desperate, attempt to finish the fight in one hand the moment he powers up slightly.
 
At this point I don't think the like of Jiren should be used as we have yet to see his and Ultra Instinct Goku's full power as of now.
 
Not quite, it ran out, after he landed that punch.

The aura fizzled out and he turned back after the dust parted and jiren caught the punch.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
Not quite, it ran out, after he landed that punch.
The aura fizzled out and he turned back after the dust parted and jiren caught the punch.
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It still showed that the form was weakening and that the punch wasn't as strong as it could've been at that point.
 
If only we know how the sealing worked, does he chant, fire a magic beam?.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
If only we know how the sealing worked, does he chant, fire a magic beam?.
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We dont know how lucemon's works and still Kid lucey gets it argued.

Hail off-screen seal.
 
I wouldn't be so sure, it was clearly Goku's last ditch effort that probably had everything he had put into it.

Yeah it was running out, but it was still up and running when he landed the blow and his only good hit on Jiren was done while it was running out seconds before the punch (the knee), so the running out thing probably doesn't work like that.
 
Dont get me wrong, but I believe Beerus' seal should be stronger than Mafuba, and we all know that Mafuba works on stronger opponents (Blue Vegeta).
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
I wouldn't be so sure, it was clearly Goku's last ditch effort that probably had everything he had put into it.
Yeah it was running out, but it was still up and running when he landed the blow and his only good hit on Jiren was done while it was running out seconds before the punch (the knee), so the running out thing probably doesn't work like that.
Click to expand...
I think it does, at that point the flickering seemed to imply his body was at its limit and that the last puch was everything he could muster at that last point.
 
The flickering was also happening when he landed the knee to Jirens gut, and that was the best hit he got in through the entire fight.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
The flickering was also happening when he landed the knee to Jirens gut, and that was the best hit he got in through the entire fight.
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What are we arguing again? I feel like we are arguing for two different things.
 
Whis said that power was on par with the gods or "perhaps even surpasses it".


he said "perhaps", meaning he wasn't sure. if he knew for sure he'd have said "these guys are stronger than the gods".


also the gods have different levels i'm sure. Beerus is probably among the strongest. (the manga at least certainly implied it)
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
That, the moment Jiren powered up even slightly he casually blocked Ultra Goku's strongest attack without breaking a sweat.
Click to expand...
That's not what I was arguing tho.
 
Hakai may not work, Jiren likely has resistance to existence erasure, if base Goku and Frieza has it through raw power.

And remember Jiren is a mortal a god (belmond) can't beat.
 
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