Jiang Zi Ya CRT

[Greatsage13th]

That entire sentence can be summarized as "The five flags each represent an element, all 5 of which make up the physical world, and would cause it to be thrown into chaos if they were destroyed". You're just adding verbosity to make a 5 second statement sound like more than it is. This is elemental manipulation and perhaps chaos manipulation but nothing more without further context. Environmental Destruction on the scale of the secular world too.

@Planck69

Also what makes you think this fivefold conceptual scheme doesn't exist in this verse? For example if the scheme never existed water won't extinguish fire, metal wouldn't rust from water, wood wouldn't deplete the soil's nutrients, earth wouldn't be formed from ash and lava, metal wouldn't be able to chop wood, forest fires wouldn't occur, metal wouldn't be refined and altered by fire and etc. :/

 

[Planck69]

1. Burden of Proof. It's up to you to prove that it does.

2. Can you provide scans of that?

 

[Greatsage13th]

1. Burden of Proof. It's up to you to prove that it does.

2. Can you provide scans of that?

1.Wu Xing indirectly exists in every verse whether you care or not. Because

2.there are no need for scans when something like this has always been around. Unless you think that wood can't be burnt by fire in this verse because Wu Xing doesn't exist due to burden of proof then I really have no other ways to help you understand :/

 

[Planck69]

So basically, "It exists because I said so!".

Yeah, you clearly dont understand how Burden of Proof works. Until there's actual proof brought up then this is just the Sun Wukong thread where unrelated stuff was conflated with what's shown in the verse.


Hard disagree.

 

[Greatsage13th]

So basically, "It exists because I said so!".

Yeah, you clearly dont understand how Burden of Proof works. Until there's actual proof brought up then this is just the Sun Wukong thread where unrelated stuff was conflated with what's shown in the verse.


Hard disagree.

So basically, "It exists because I said so!".

???

Yeah, you clearly dont understand how Burden of Proof works. Until there's actual proof brought up then this is just the Sun Wukong thread where unrelated stuff was conflated with what's shown in the verse.

How is Wu Xing unrelated in the verse? Especially when Wu Xing is indirectly involved in every natural phenomenon whether it be IRL or fiction. Without Wu Xing Weapons wouldn't be able to be created, there would be nothing to fuel the fire, dams wouldn't exist, wood would be stronger than metal, water wouldn't extinguish flame, plant life would be impossible, humans would be stuck in stone age for God knows how long, water can't boiled by fire, earth wouldn't smother fire, minerals would never deplete from earth and far more illogical issues would arise if Wu Xing was never present.

So prove to me did any of these things above happened in The Investiture of the gods or anything at all disproves the existence of the five phases?

I don't get what you're trying to disagree on.

 

[Planck69]

Can you actually showcase where this is said in verse though? Like, this is the Wuji situation all over again. A real life unproven concept somehow scaling to everything in a verse.

 

[Greatsage13th]

If you're going to say that this verse is fiction therefore the Five Phases wouldn't exist as a natural concept there and wouldn't be applicable. Then you're going to have to elaborate why the verse in general still follows the exact same rules and logic of the five phases.

 

[Planck69]

Show the scans where it follows them then and actually attributed it to this Wu Xing phenomena. You're asking me to prove why it's not there when as the one proposing, you have to prove why it is.

Seriously, this was irritating enough when you were claiming JttW was 1-A cause of referencing Wuji.

 

[Antvasima]

@Zaratthustra

What do you think that we should do here?

 

[Greatsage13th]

Show the scans where it follows them then and actually attributed it to this Wu Xing phenomena. You're asking me to prove why it's not there when as the one proposing, you have to prove why it is.

Seriously, this was irritating enough when you were claiming JttW was 1-A cause of referencing Wuji.

Bringing up a part incident is quite redundant. What's irritating is that you won't agree that Wu Xing doesn't exist in the verse even when I showed the clips where Jiang Zi Ya Said that killing off the five flags is equivalent to distorting the Wu Xing. Heck you still disagreed when the i showed the clip where the lord of Tao and Virtue saying the exact same thing. You also kept telling to provide proof despite already done so for the past few comments here and wouldn't elaborate why such isnt the case.

 

[Planck69]

Mentioning something isn't equivalent to explaining it though. For the same reason a verse that mentions Platonic Forms isn't 1-A without elaboration, this is just elemental manipulation and environmental destruction without anything else. That's all I'll say on the matter, good luck convincing others.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Planck seems to make sense. You should probably stop arguing about this.

 

[Zaratthustra]

You need to show feats and statements from within the verse, not how these are defined in real life. You need to show with arguments from the verse that the elements are conceptual in nature.

Just because is said to be the Five Phases without foundation behind your statements, the argument will be just baseless.

You either bring the arguments from within the verse or give up because no one will accept them as they are right now.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Mentioning something isn't equivalent to explaining it though. For the same reason a verse that mentions Platonic Forms isn't 1-A without elaboration, this is just elemental manipulation and environmental destruction without anything else. That's all I'll say on the matter, good luck convincing others.

A verse that mentions platonic forms didn't get tier 1A yes...but they still got type 2 Concept Hax. Also it's not a mere mention but explained thoroughly by the lord of Tao and Virtue that using the five flags against one another distorted the Wu Xing and caused abnormal changes to the secular world this is should at least be a limited concept Hax since it requires all five flags and it only affects one concept which is the Wu Xing or five phases.

 

[Planck69]

A verse that mentions platonic forms didn't get tier 1A yes...but they still got type 2 Concept Hax. Also it's not a mere mention but explained thoroughly by the lord of Tao and Virtue that using the five flags against one another distorted the Wu Xing and caused abnormal changes to the secular world this is should at least be a limited concept Hax since it requires all five flags and it only affects one concept which is the Wu Xing or five phases.

1. They don't get anything. If a verse gets hax that way, they should be downgraded.

2. One five second statement isn't thorough explanation (unless you're referring to a different clip then by all means, link me to it).

 

[Greatsage13th]

1. They don't get anything. If a verse gets hax that way, they should be downgraded.

2. One five second statement isn't thorough explanation (unless you're referring to a different clip then by all means, link me to it).

1.fair enough

2.i sent you 2 clips. One where Jiang Zi Ya states it. Second where the lord of Tao and Virtue elaborates it further.

@Planck69

 

[Greatsage13th]

@Planck69


This is the 2nd clip i mentioned (35:15-35:35)

 

[Planck69]

....That's the clip I watched.

 

[Antvasima]

It does not seem like you will get anything more accepted here Greatsage13th. Perhaps it would be best if you stop arguing here and start focusing on applying what has been accepted instead.

 

[Greatsage13th]

It does not seem like you will get anything more accepted here Greatsage13th. Perhaps it would be best if you stop arguing here and start focusing on applying what has been accepted instead.

Then this at best is elemental manipulation, possibly chaos manipulation and reality warping.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Also as for the sun eruption feat. It should be comparable to a regular solar flare which the amount of energy released is the equivalent of millions of 100-megaton hydrogen bombs exploding at the same time.

Taken from here

 

[Planck69]

That's High 6-B. That said, a source that actually provides the joule count should be used. I don't think that we scale from sensationalist statements like that.

IIRC, Solar flares were High 6-C to 6-A. Based on this

Solar flares occur in a power-law spectrum of magnitudes; an energy release of typically 10^20 joules of energy suffices to produce a clearly observable event, while a major event can emit up to 10^25 joules.[2]
- Wikipedia

 

[Greatsage13th]

That's High 6-B. That said, a source that actually provides the joule count should be used. I don't think that we scale from sensationalist statements like that.

IIRC, Solar flares were High 6-C to 6-A.

The energy released during a flare is typically on the order of 10^27 ergs per second. Large flares can emit up to 10^32 ergs of energy.

1 erg = 1 X 10^-7 joules
10^27 ergs = 10^20 joules (high 6C)
10^32 ergs = 10^25 joules (6A)

 

[Antvasima]

Then this at best is elemental manipulation, possibly chaos manipulation and reality warping.

If that is what Zaratthustra and Planck69 have accepted, yes.

 

[Greatsage13th]

If that is what Zaratthustra and Planck69 have accepted, yes.

Understood

 

[Antvasima]

I updated my last post for clarification.

 

[Planck69]

I more meant that it was elemental manipulation, chaos manipulation and environmental destruction. I don't remember agreeing to reality warping.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Then reality warping should not be applied.

 

[Greatsage13th]

I more meant that it was elemental manipulation, chaos manipulation and environmental destruction. I don't remember agreeing to reality warping.

Okay then

 

[Greatsage13th]

As for the yellow flag only having passive forcefield creation is not true as shown Here (at 9:00) and Stated that it disabled magic (at 29:22)

@Zaratthustra
@Planck69

 

[Greatsage13th]

That's High 6-B. That said, a source that actually provides the joule count should be used. I don't think that we scale from sensationalist statements like that.

IIRC, Solar flares were High 6-C to 6-A. Based on this

Solar flares occur in a power-law spectrum of magnitudes; an energy release of typically 10^20 joules of energy suffices to produce a clearly observable event, while a major event can emit up to 10^25 joules.[2]
- Wikipedia

However causing the sun eruption should be significantly higher. Especially when it occured throughout the sun than the surface of the sun itself.

 

[Planck69]

That's not quantifiable. Unless you have a method of calculating it, this is just "At least High 6-C, Possibly 6-A".

 

[Planck69]

@Zaratthustra
@Planck69

That's not passive, it's pretty clear that he waved it before the attacks were blocked. It also clearly doesn't disable magic since we see the three attack him with magic just fine. Seems more likely that the woman was talking about how it can block their magic, rendering it useless.

Regardless, it is forcefield creation.

 

[Greatsage13th]

That's not passive, its pretty clear that he waved it before the attacks were blocked. It also clearly doesn't disable magic since we see the three attack him with magic just fine. Seems more likely that the woman was talking about how it can block their magic, rendering it useless.

Regardless, it is forcefield creation.

More likely the range of Passive powernull is only extended to the distance from his body and flag which makes it an extended melee range Powernull rather than having it used over a large area. Also it's clear that all projectiles were nullified the moment they touch the glyphs anyway. Also The flag is stated to deter demons in the All-Demons cave which would suppose the claim that the flag has powernulling properties as it prevented the demons from possessing enough power to escape the cave and cause harm to the outside world. (Shown at 43:12-43:20)

 

[Planck69]

More likely the range of Passive powernull is only extended to the distance from his body and flag which makes it an extended melee range Powernull rather than having it used over a large area. Also it's clear that all projectiles were nullified the moment they touch the glyphs anyway. Also The flag is stated to deter demons in the All-Demons cave which would suppose the claim that the flag has powernulling properties as it prevented the demons from possessing enough power to escape the cave and cause harm to the outside world. (Shown at 43:12-43:20)

That's a completely unfounded assumption (as are a lot of things here actually). Projectiles being nullified upon touching a force-field is just a standard visual effect of them being blocked. What we see is the people clearly attacking and being blocked by the Yellow Flag and no assumptions will be taken beyond that. Moving on, all that clip says it that it deters demons and prevents them from entering the world. That's just Sealing or even just Forcefield Creation depending on how it does so. Nothing says that the demons' powers are nullified, just that they're kept at bay.

Although, I guess the flag has some form of Petrification

 

[Greatsage13th]

That's a completely unfounded assumption (as are a lot of things here actually). Projectiles being nullified upon touching a force-field is just a standard visual effect of them being blocked. What we see is the people clearly attacking and being blocked by the Yellow Flag and no assumptions will be taken beyond that. Moving on, all that clip says it that it deters demons and prevents them from entering the world. That's just Sealing or even just Forcefield Creation depending on how it does so. Nothing says that the demons' powers are nullified, just that they're kept at bay.

Although, I guess the flag has some form of Petrification

There are 2 variations of this "powernull"

The first one was the ones that were nullifying those projectiles were those glyphs.

The second one is when the flag itself comes in contact with an object or item that is made of magic such as Hu'Xian Er's Ice silkworm webs Shown here at 27:48

 

[Greatsage13th]

Convincing enough?

 

[Planck69]

Not really? Immediately after she sustains a continuous energy barrage at him and what is clearly a forcefield is summoned to block it. I'm not sure what the stance is on dissipating attacks like in that Silkworm feat but it seems to me that he just blasted it away.

If you really still think it then ask others. Maybe I'm being nitpicky.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Not really? Immediately after she sustains a continuous energy barrage at him and what is clearly a forcefield is summoned to block it. I'm not sure what the stance is on dissipating attacks like in that Silkworm feat but it seems to me that he just blasted it away.

If you really still think it then ask others. Maybe I'm being nitpicky.

1.Okay then. That's understandable.

2.if it's considered as..."blasting away" Jiang Zi Ya would have explosion manipulation as it looks like which but we would end up with a Yang Jian that is wounded by it or worse having his entire body dematerialize by the flag. So it should be powernull nevertheless.

 

[Antvasima]

Planck still makes sense to me.