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IZ tier discussion

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Matthew Schroeder said:
Zeno nuked 12 universes. Thus 2-C. This whole mess started due to downplay arguments that "The Dragon Ball Multiverse is just a large Universe because same timeline".
Zeno is 2-C for nuking 12 universes.
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How is Zeno 2-C for this if they all share the same space- time? The notes even say you can fly to another Universe in DBS so how is it 2-C to destroy them?

Note: It is evident that each one of all 12 universes in Dragon Ball Super share the space-time structure, as characters from one universe can reach another through simple flight, and with each timeline affecting all 12 universes rather than a single one.
 
I just have 1 question left now.

"Was stated to have control over all Space and Time which should include at the very least Universe 7's entire structure"

This explanation from Demigra's page confirms that we consider U7 to be 2-C.

"planned to merge the main universe and Demon Realm with his own power"

This explanation from Mira's page also confirms that we consider U7 to be 2-C.

Goku's statement "If you use it in a place where time flows like Earth" also confirms that U7 is 2-C.

And for the longest time now, we all considered that to be the case. Now, are we willing to change the whole structure of U7 just because some DBS characters are becoming 2-C? Because that would be mighty convenient.
 
Just came back after 24 hours on this site to find my Cosmology Analysis page closed. Dissapointed.

And ye, I do agree with AKM sama on this one.
 
We consider the U7 to be 2-C in the game continuity, which is not in the main canon one [Not even universe sized]. Goku statement means little because there is also a different flow of time in the Planetary Room of Spirit and Time, hope these settles the thread.
 
@Dark

When Vegeta destroyed the ROSAT, High 3-A being rejected wasn't because of the different flow of time, but because the ROSAT was only planet-sized. The afterlife is universe-sized. This is pretty different.

On another note, it was mentioned above that the note that just got removed from Zeno's page states that all 12 universes share the same timeline, yet Zeno got a 2-C rating for erasing them all. Why is that?
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
But ya just saud it was accepted but only for the game. Yet the two are identical.
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They are not, the game one has statement about it along with it being based on the anime continuity, which has also statements about it in the fillers. In the manga-super one there are not, so they are not the same.
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
What , xenoverse is based on Dragon ball online and super last I checked, it just has anime thrown in.
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XV1 Mira for example is 4-A because he is scaled to Anime Buu, the Super material in Xenoverse is scaled to the Xenoverse continuity, not the canon one.
 
KingPin0422 said:
On another note, it was mentioned above that the note that just got removed from Zeno's page states that all 12 universes share the same timeline, yet Zeno got a 2-C rating for erasing them all. Why is that?
Click to expand...
Because of there afterlives being in thw mix, if not for them Zen'o would only be Low 2-C.
 
Yet Dark is saying that the afterlives are bound to the same space-time continuum as their respective mortal realms.

Even though Goku has been in one for a total of roughly 8 years and so should at least know how it works, regardless of how unreliable he may have been in the past.
 
I know the time-span is too small to justify a bump, but I would really appreciate an answer soon.
 
U7 is 2-C in size and has been agreed upon already, this is why zeno was turned from low 2-C to 2-C, due to other world, and reasoning for both Mira and Demigra, changing it now to prevent an upgrade would be a bad choice if i'm being frank.

It is the same structure in xenoverse, just that there are more timelines, nothing suggests otherwise that I have seen.

Also the fact Goku states time doesn't exist, or doesn't flow the same in other world at least shows it is different time space. There is clearly a major difference in his stamina due to the different flow of time since he could hold SSJ3 much longer in other world according to himself, but barely in the living world on panel, due to differences in time as stated by himself. And he has his body in other world to train as a privilege so arguing no body in other world is incorrect.

Even ROSAT which is in living world has a different time space.

Not to mention other world it is not accessible normally to the living via travel, only teleport and angel travel which can cross universes and timelines anyway.

And Demon realm is even stated to be run without the normal laws of physics where it is more like magic, so clearly separate structures with different space times and laws.
 
How so? Please be specific and show proof of what is out of context and exaggerated. I believe everything I stated is factual and backed up by proof that I can provide if needed.
 
We were being nitpicky with the whole 12 universes being only a Low 2-C structure thing. Like Matt said earlier Zeno is 2-C for destroying 12 universes without the other realm having anything to add to it only making it a higher end of 2-C than previously.

And Mira's feat has nothing to do with the size of the Universe. Its him merging another realm with the Mortal Universe.

I feel like Demigra's justificacion should be revised though.
 
No, he isn't really. If logically, the other world has slower time flow or just not the same one as the mortal realm, then yes SSJ3 would last longer, with the drain being spread out more and therefore less taxing. Simple logic here, to be honest.

Tl;Dr

SSJ3 in the Other World --> Time moves slower and SSJ3's stamina drain is spread throughout longer periods of time, making it so SSJ3 is much more managable (Also since you're kinda dead without a body. that might be it too, but we haven't really drawn a line of how dying in DB helps or hurts character's abilities). Also no, Otherworld being slower in time is NOT a stretch as we have RoSaT which fits a year into only 24 hours.

SSJ3 in Mortal Realm ---> Time flows faster than Other World and as such, the stamina drain is much faster. Again this might be because there's the burden of a mortal body, but I don't think we've established this either.

RoSaT is a different case as it is only planetary sized even if it has a separate space-time. And yes, the Demon Realm relies upon fantasy "Magic" rules while the mortal realm adheres more to science and physics. Which makes sense, because the average joe in the Demon Realm is a demon.

Not to sound rude Matt, but are you able to show SSJRyu1 what he's "exaggerating" and "taking out of context"? Because a lot of what he says is pretty by-the-manga. At the very least the logic of how time works is.
 
@Julian thing is demon realm is part of U7 structure, if anything other world is separated more and larger since demon realm is depicted smaller, and part of living world still to, just with different laws and separated by a seal, yet that is still considered 2-C for Mira/Demigra fusing that with living part of U7.
 
The size of the universe doesn't matter. The Otherworld has time but you don't feel the passage of it, that's it. Zeno is 2-C due to multiverse busting.
 
Again, why not? Zamasu was going to fuse with the Future Trunks verse and was eating away at the present universe. Is the evidence that Zamasu cannot go to another verse was because of the time travelling footprint thing allowing him to do so? I've got to ask, does ANYONE have the evidence to prove that? Because it seems to me that Zamasu was going to target that universe anyways as it's the home of "THE NINGEN GOKUUUUU!"
 
Dude. That's what he would become, not the Tier he was. You're wanting to rank him solely over what he would become, and then scale people to it.

I guess we should have 3-C Top Tier Jedi and Sith because Lord Viviate's plan involved the destruction of the entire Galaxy and then absorbing the energy of its destruction.
 
I still have not found a conclusive answer as to why the note on Zeno's page mentions the 12 universes as sharing a space-time continuum when he got a 2-C rating for nuking them all.

If that is true, and the afterlives sharing this same continuum is also true, then shouldn't Zeno be Low 2-C?
 
I am not claiming the size matters (although following ROSAT justification logic it does, but a topic for another time). I am saying other world clearly has a different flow of time as stated by Goku and shown since he is capable of holding SSJ3 in there far longer than the living world, which he directly attributes to different flow of time, and implied since normal travel through space cannot reach it, it requires teleportation or an angel who can travel through time and timelines even.

It is multiple space time continuums of Universal magnitude that make up said Universe though is the issue, and it was already accepted 3 times for Zeno, Mira and Demigra that U7 structure is 2-C.
 
Goku directly states the time doesn't exist, or flows different. We see physical effects on the body proving his point and he has lived their for 7 eyars so would know what hes talking about, especially when it comes to how his body reacts. Sure the time streams can run parallel to each other, trunks timeline does it as time passes for him just like it does for the present timeline, but that does not prove they share the same time flow which is clearly vastly different as stated and shown by Goku.

Can you show actual proof of them saying directly Other world and living world share the same space time continuum? Unless you can then I would go with what is stated and shown by Goku, which is they are different flows of time.
 
anyhow I am going to bed, early morning, long day ahead, I will check up on the thread hopefully tomorrow sometime.
 
Okay, this is all very convenient. I am going to put forth my views not as a user, but as a random perso who comes here once in a while looking for information, so please don't hate me for speaking my unbiased mind and being honest:

2 days ago - There was a consensus among all the members of this wiki that the afterlives have separate space-time. This reasoning was being used to justify 2-C ratings for many characters up until now.

1 day ago - A thread was made based on that very previously established consensus of this wiki, which warranted an upgrade for some DBS characters to 2-C.

Now just because some of us don't want that to happen, the previously established consensus is being changed so that it can suit our arguments. It means we can change the U7 structure according to our convenience so that we can control the ratings of certain characters. This is really bad, very bad. That's not how things are supposed to be working here. SMH
 
Matt, no. I never said his 2-C state would scale to anyone as he was killed before that ever came to pass. However, he would eventually grow to 2-C if left unattended
 
IZ would eventually become 2-C for the same reason Ultimate Kriemhild Gretchen have a 2-A rating. Kinda surprised he doesnt have an at least Low 2-C for his encompassment was reaching the present timeline. In other words his range and rating should match.
 
I'm tired of hearing people rating about us "changing" Universe 7's structure to our advantage. Like....aren't we allowed to change our views on things that may not make much sense to us? I did not see anyone ranting when we changed almost everyone to 3-A.

Anyhow after some thinking im willing to give Zamasu at best an "At least Low 2-C possibly 2-C" considering the reasons Crzer07 and Akreious gave or even "Low 2-C likely 2-C overtime/preparation".
 
The very fact that Infinite Zamasu was present at all in two timelines at the same time should be enough for a solid 2-C rating.

If he died before becoming 2-C, then how do you explain Whis and Beerus feeling his presence from across timelines and not being terribly concerned?

As people have adressed before, Beerus was more terrified of a mortal with strength rivalling or even surpassing a God of Destruction than an incorporeal omnipresent soul that was spreading across timelines.

Even if the afterlife is still part of the same space-time structure as the mortal realm, Infinite Zamasu has clearly shown to be present in the main timeline as well as the future timeline that he overtook.
 
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