Issues with Immeasurable Speed in Ben 10

[Hellformer]

Context matters you know

Reading comprehension matters

 

[Worthless]

In examining the speed at which the Annilargh operates, it's crucial to differentiate between perception and actual events, especially in scenarios as profound as the destruction and creation of a universe. While it's true that animation or depiction can give a subjective impression of speed—sometimes showing the same character as fast in one instance and slow in another—there are key narrative and contextual clues that suggest the Annilargh's speed during creation is indeed faster.

Firstly, when the universe was destroyed by the Annilargh, the process, although powerful, unfolded with a certain level of deliberation. The destruction was often depicted with significant buildup, emphasizing the immense force required to dismantle reality. This destruction, though overwhelming, gave a sense of gradual inevitability, a cataclysmic event that unfolded over time, allowing for the drama and weight of the moment to be fully realized.

In contrast, the creation of the universe by the Annilargh is described as an instantaneous event—a burst of pure, unbridled energy that births existence in a mere moment. The narrative surrounding this event emphasizes the speed and immediacy with which the Annilargh can create. This is not just a function of the animation style or artistic choice but is rooted in the lore itself. The creation is often depicted as a flash, an almost incomprehensible surge of energy that contrasts sharply with the more measured pace of destruction. We even have ben basically confirming in a way that the Big bang and Annilargh work the same (in creation) when ben refers to the Big bang.https://youtu.be/9l6dM8-GENM?si=wJMEcNSNHA5fJiD5

Also the wiki accepts the Annilargh being almost equivalent to the big bang as there was once a time where it was used to scale the omnitrix reaction speed to MFTL+ by referring to the big bang if i remember correctly

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Moreover, the idea that the same source (the Annilargh) would operate at different speeds is not only plausible but necessary. The nature of creation versus destruction in many cosmologies involves different kinds of energy and intent. Creation, being an act of bringing forth something from nothing, might require a much quicker release of energy—a rapid expansion of the universe akin to the Big Bang. Destruction, on the other hand, can be a more controlled, methodical unraveling, allowing for the decay of complex systems.

Thus, while on the surface it might seem inconsistent, the differences in speed are a reflection of the distinct nature of the actions being performed. The Annilargh's speed when creating the universe is faster, not just because of visual or stylistic choices but because the act of creation, in this context, demands a more instantaneous manifestation of power.

I have no intention of entertaining an argument based on animation and unconfirmed. The profile states that its destruction could also affect the Timestream. So, even if you believe the speeds to be different, both still has to travel, which was the underlying argument for why Annilargh has Immeasurable Speed. All I'm seeing is a new phrasing that can also be explained as Range, and a different assumption argument. Honestly do not want to respond to this but you might brought this up if someone ask what's the opposition argument.

 

[Worthless]

Reading comprehension matters

Are you serious lmfao

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Litterally all of these applies to the normal aliens. Dismissing it for the sake of downscaling is mad

Prove why any of this wouldn't apply to the normal Aliens @Worthless

 

[Worthless]

Prove why any of this wouldn't apply to the normal Aliens @Worthless

All I see are more excuses to invalidate the scene. The scene simply shows that it’s not as fast as you thought it was. It’s not hard to understand.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

All I see are more excuses to invalidate the scene. The scene simply shows that it’s not as fast as you thought it was. It’s not hard to understand.

So u can't even disprove my reasoning Instead u just say "more excuse"

 

[Worthless]

So u can't even disprove my reasoning Instead u just say "more excuse"

I mean, what else can I say to an argument that tries to overcomplicate the scenes, claiming it's PIS because of yada yada statements in this site? And you said the Immeasurable Speed is consistent from the beginning, and yet to this moment you still haven’t shown anything that proves it.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I mean, what else can I say to an argument that tries to overcomplicate the scenes, claiming it's PIS because of yada yada statements in this site? And you said the Immeasurable Speed is consistent from the beginning, and yet to this moment you still haven’t shown anything that proves it.

Ur argument is litterally based on a inconsistancy from basic Aliens. Qawsef has also already explained why the feat would be Immesurable, you claim it as range by comparing the blast to Goku shaking Universe 7

 

[SweetDao]

Are the skull emojis really necessary?

 

[Hellformer]

Are you serious lmfao

Yes

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Are the skull emojis really necessary?

yes

 

[SweetDao]

yes

Feels petty. Worthless is just trying to argue his side, with arguments (good or bad, that's not my point) and you're just being obnoxious with him.

If you feel like the conversation goes nowhere, just state your mind and let the staff decide.

 

[TheShape03]

Feels petty. Worthless is just trying to argue his side, with arguments (good or bad, that's not my point) and you're just being obnoxious with him.

If you feel like the conversation goes nowhere, just state your mind and let the staff decide.

I understand that point, but it's also pretty frustrating when someone says something that is, objectively, absurd. Like for example, what the OP said; that an expansion that PHYSICALLY MOVES has no speed and is just range.

It's like if someone showed me a red wall and said "that wall is orange", I'd obviously feel frustrated that I even had to discuss it.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Feels petty. Worthless is just trying to argue his side, with arguments (good or bad, that's not my point) and you're just being obnoxious with him.

So am I, but he assuming we are "ignoring clear anti feats" bc most feats presented in the OP are actually outliers for reasons cited above

 

[SweetDao]

I understand that point, but it's also pretty frustrating when someone says something that is, objectively, absurd. Like for example, what the OP said; that an expansion that PHYSICALLY MOVES has no speed and is just range.

It's like if someone showed me a red wall and said "that wall is orange", I'd obviously feel frustrated that I even had to discuss it.

Don't worry, I know that feeling very well. Like you said, if there was a red wall and someone said it was orange, refusing to change their view on it, would you waste time trying to convince them over and over again when you know it serves no purpose beside wasting your time?

I just feel that no one, no matter their opinion, should be mocked because they stated their views.

So am I, but he assuming we are "ignoring clear anti feats" bc most feats presented in the OP are actually outliers for reasons cited above

From what I've read, you've already given a lot of arguments (and other supporters too), just wait for staff instead of "mocking" the person. I'm not trying to say that was what you were doing, but receiving skull emojis because you stated your views is never pleasant, you know?

 

[TheShape03]

Don't worry, I know that feeling very well. Like you said, if there was a red wall and someone said it was orange, refusing to change their view on it, would you waste time trying to convince them over and over again when you know it serves no purpose beside wasting your time?

Fair enough.

I just feel that no one, no matter their opinion, should be mocked because they stated their views.

I think taking a skull emoji as a mockery is a bit of a stretch.

 

[SweetDao]

I think taking a skull emoji as a mockery is a bit of a stretch.

I don't want to further clog the thread. My point is just, if you feel it's not worth it, you can do something else and wait for staff instead of ""

 

[Worthless]

Ur argument is litterally based on a inconsistancy from basic Aliens. Qawsef has also already explained why the feat would be Immesurable, you claim it as range by comparing the blast to Goku shaking Universe 7

Where did all my explanation go? Did it just pass through you? My argument is based on the fact that you can achieve any of those with range, and the aliens are just there to support that argument. And Qaw still hasn't given his final opinion.

I understand that point, but it's also pretty frustrating when someone says something that is, objectively, absurd. Like for example, what the OP said; that an expansion that PHYSICALLY MOVES has no speed and is just range.

I'm literally trying to be patient the entire time because it feels like none of you actually understand my argument, and your responses are also proof of that. it's getting repeated too. I'm pretty sure I'm being clear. nobody said it has no speed, but rather that it has speed, yes, but just not at the level you thought as you can still achieve those things without speed at that level.

 

[Pepsimanslover_69]

I'm literally trying to be patient the entire time because it feels like none of you actually understand my argument, and your responses are also proof of that. it's getting repeated too. I'm pretty sure I'm being clear. nobody said it has no speed, but rather that it has speed, yes, but just not at the level you thought as you can still achieve those things without speed at that level.

Looking at your arguments, most of them are "this can be achieved by Range so no" or "characters that are mftl react to it".

The first is true but it doesn't work here, as this happened through travel, and thus would applicable to speed.

The second can simply be stated to be an outlier, there's no reason to assume not to.

 

[Worthless]

Looking at your arguments, most of them are "this can be achieved by Range so no" or "characters that are mftl react to it".

The first is true but it doesn't work here, as this happened through travel, and thus would applicable to speed.

Whether it involves traveling or not doesn’t really disregard the argument that it’s range rather than speed at that level. Sure, logic suggests that it has to be moving at that speed, but as I’ve said numerous times, this is fiction. The number of times fiction ignores logic and fails to account for such details is innumerable, just like how characters can move in timeless space or travel at FTL speeds which should be logically impossible. So, while logic says you can’t achieve that feat with just range and no speed at that level, fictional logic says otherwise.

The second can simply be stated to be an outlier, there's no reason to assume not to.

Or it just means it's not as fast as they all thought it was?

 

[Pepsimanslover_69]

Whether it involves traveling or not doesn’t really disregard the argument that it’s range rather than speed at that level. Sure, logic suggests that it has to be moving at that speed, but as I’ve said numerous times, this is fiction. The number of times fiction ignores logic and fails to account for such details is innumerable, just like how characters can move in timeless space or travel at FTL speeds which should be logically impossible. So, while logic says you can’t achieve that feat with just range and no speed at that level, fictional logic says otherwise.

It does. You agree that it travels, and so you don't have any stand on it being range anymore. If it travels, it has speed we can Tier.

And you're point on fiction ignoring logic is useless. Range isn't happening here, it's a energy blast that travels from a point, it moves, and since it moves, it's a speed feat.

Or it just means it's not as fast as they all thought it was?

There's no or.

Your entire arguments all hinge on it being 100% range, but that shit doesn't work when it moves from a starting distance.

 

[Hellformer]

It does. You agree that it travels, and so you don't have any stand on it being range anymore. If it travels, it has speed we can Tier.

And you're point on fiction ignoring logic is useless. Range isn't happening here, it's a energy blast that travels from a point, it moves, and since it moves, it's a speed feat.

There's no or.

Your entire arguments all hinge on it being 100% range, but that shit doesn't work when it moves from a starting distance.

Heavy mental gymnastics. Giving that guy any attention is a waste of time so how about we demand staffs to close this thread?

 

[Robo432343]

OP is cooking

 

[Pepsimanslover_69]

Sure

 

[Lloydblitzed]

OP is cooking

Ye def

 

[Forthegood]

I have no intention of entertaining an argument based on animation and unconfirmed.

This is going to be a very lengthy response especially considering how you're tackling my counter arguments so this will be my last response i dont want to make this thread longer as it is already.

I understand your concern about relying on animation or unconfirmed aspects of the show, but the point I'm making isn't just about visual interpretation—it's about the conceptual framework within the Ben 10 Universe and how the Annilargh  functions within that framework.

Ultimately, while there may be different interpretations, the distinction I’m drawing upon is rooted in how creation is generally portrayed as a  Faster, more instantaneous event compared to destruction. This isn't merely an assumption but a consideration of how these processes are typically understood within both the show’s lore and broader cosmological principles.

The profile states that its destruction could also affect the Timestream. So, even if you believe the speeds to be different, both still has to travel, which was the underlying argument for why Annilargh has Immeasurable Speed.

The core of your argument focuses on the fact that Archit and the other Aliens reacted to the destruction of the universe. What was used to upgrade these characters to immeasurable speed was the creation feat of the Annilargh and you're using the destruction feat to downplay the speed of the Annilargh when you can clearly see those instances are not the same.

While it’s true that the Annilargh’s destruction is said to affect the Timestream, which implies a significant range and possibly immeasurable speed, the key difference lies in the nature of its actions. The act of destruction involves unraveling existing structures, which might be more gradual and deliberate, even if it affects the Timestream. Creation, on the other hand, involves an immediate expansion of reality—akin to the Big Bang—suggesting a need for a faster, more instantaneous release of energy.

All I'm seeing is a new phrasing that can also be explained as Range, and a different assumption argument.

Additionally, when discussing the underlying mechanics of the Annilargh, it’s important to recognize that  speed and  ramge are not mutually exclusive. The argument isn't just about how far the Annilargh's effects reach (which can be explained by range), but also how quickly these effects manifest, particularly in the context of creation versus destruction.

 

[Hellformer]

OP is cooking

He ended up deep frying and eventually burning

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Are the skull emojis really necessary?

Yes

 

[SweetDao]

Yes

 

[MrLuk2000]

After reading the entire thread, I also disagree FRA

 

[RanHover60]

ALIEN X STILL SOLOS
(Heavy disagree btw)

 

[Huesito88]

ALIEN X STILL SOLOS
(Heavy disagree btw)

Solos what?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Solos what?

Solos the downgrade CRTs ig

 

[Forthegood]

Damn how do you change your profile picture to a video or gif like yours that gogeta art is amazing

ALIEN X STILL SOLOS
(Heavy disagree btw)

 

[RanHover60]

Damn how do you change your profile picture to a video or gif like yours that gogeta art is amazing

I think I downloaded the gif as a file then uploaded it how you would a normal picture. (There’s a limit on the file size tho but enough with the derailing)

 

[Hellformer]

Solos what?

Similar to "Goku solos" phrase

 

[Worthless]

It does. You agree that it travels, and so you don't have any stand on it being range anymore. If it travels, it has speed we can Tier.

And you're point on fiction ignoring logic is useless. Range isn't happening here, it's a energy blast that travels from a point, it moves, and since it moves, it's a speed feat.

Did you all actually read my argument?
I’ve said it for numerous times. Sure, it’s traveling, but not exactly at the speed you all thought it was. You can still achieve those feat without NECESSARILY moving at Immeasurable Speed.

There's no or.

Try to look at it objectively. This is not an outlier, it simply means y'all interpretation are incorrect.

Your entire arguments all hinge on it being 100% range, but that shit doesn't work when it moves from a starting distance.

Nobody said 100%.

I'm pretty sure I'm being clear. nobody said it has no speed, but rather that it has speed, yes, but just not at the level you thought as you can still achieve those things without speed at that level.

This is like the 11th time I’ve felt that y'all didn’t understand my argument.

 

[Worthless]

Heavy mental gymnastics. Giving that guy any attention is a waste of time so how about we demand staffs to close this thread?

Just because you can't understand my simple argument doesn’t mean I’m incorrect. I’m trying to be patient and civil. It literally feels like I'm talking to a bunch of close-minded people. And You are literally not being helpful at all. The fact that you can’t even understand the simple reason why I mentioned the moving in timeless space says a lot about you.

 

[Hellformer]

Just because you can't understand my simple argument doesn’t mean I’m incorrect. I’m trying to be patient and civil. It literally feels like I'm talking to a bunch of close-minded people. And You are literally not being helpful at all. The fact that you can’t even understand the simple reason why I mentioned the moving in timeless space says a lot about you.

You still misinterpreting my point says a lot about you, stop going circular.

 

[Worthless]

Just stop coming here, my g. You’re not being helpful at all. Lloyd’s main argument is repetitive, but at least he’s trying to counter and make new points each time unlike you.