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Isekai Mahou wa Okureteru Discussion Thread

After so many years, Volume 10 releases on February 25
20240202-215929.jpg
 
Oh cool, thought the author forgot about this series.

Will probably need another reread again before it's translated, especially if 1-A arguments are going to be entertained.
 
Finished reading volume 10, and got some interesting stuffs related to Immortality and regeneration.
Stockpiling of life. This refers to implementing a 'reserve life' system. By storing energy that can be used as a substitute for life in advance, one determines their lifespan and avoids death."

Quantification of lethality. This procedure allows death to be determined not by physical organ damage but by the quantity of magic and soul. It's essentially an HP system."

SMOS. Swampman Operating System. This involves constructing a new body with the same memories, achieving a pseudo-revival.

And the most difficult one is the Revive Ritual Behavior. This is a grand ritual that achieves resurrection through a legitimate spell...
Suimei can use all types of immortality mentioned above. He even said that.
Magician wont die just being killed once or twice.
Click to expand...
And even after Suimei gotten erased without leaving any trace, he came back again with magic. So he should get low godly regeneration to mid godly regeneration (if we consider his mind and soul has been destroyed too) as demons attack Damages Astral body too.
 
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I haven't forgotten about this series. Almost done with volume 2. Already have some ideas about potential changes, but will see if they hold as I go through.

But yea its funny how it takes years for a single volume so every time I have to re-read the entire series before going to the new 1, not just because I forgot what's going on, but for vsbattles related stuff.
 
Wasn't really going to post anything here till I was ready to work on the verse, but only 2 volumes and getting major implications here.

The mysteries only exist intelligent life believes that they exist, and there was some other stuff about how spirits only exist when humans name them. Lets assume the astral is a transcendental plane which contains all creation which includes platonic forms, would this realm needing the existence of intelligent life discredit it from being a truly transcendental, qualitative plane?

hmm.gif


Not sure, guess we will see when I bring it up in a CRT.
 
Ignore my ramblings if you want, this is all to organize my thoughts. 4 volumes in now.

Gods/spirts are higher order beings which exist in the astral plane which is beyond fantasy and beyond distance, very interesting statements, that somehow I didn't pay attention to last time.

Suimei just straight up uses the voice of a God to steal the mana and knock out people and its something every high ranking magician has been exposed to 🤔

Have to get access to the raws to check if it was higher dimensional or like higher order, was used back in volume 3, where to find the raws is the question. Higher dimensional tilts things towards 1-A not being a thing, higher order is more in line with all the other statements so far, though there is still the question of Gods needing humans to continue existing, though humans aren't exactly normal either imo so not sure if anti-feat yet.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Gods/spirts are higher order beings which exist in the astral plane which is beyond fantasy and beyond distance, very interesting statements, that somehow I didn't pay attention to last time.
Click to expand...
I will probably re-read it soon too, don't remember much of it now.

Celestial_Pegasus said:
Have to get access to the raws to check if it was higher dimensional or like higher order, was used back in volume 3, where to find the raws is the question.
Click to expand...
I checked in the raw, which you are referring to (v3c4), if I am not wrong. There seems to be higher dimensional kanji.
闇、光、大地、太陽、真実を意味するその言葉によって、高次元にある悪意はそ の力を防がれる。通常、真っ当な魔術師同士の戦いには皆無と言っていいほど使われない、 魔術だ。
Click to expand...
 
Godsatoshi23 said:
I will probably re-read it soon too, don't remember much of it now.


I checked in the raw, which you are referring to (v3c4), if I am not wrong. There seems to be higher dimensional kanji.
Click to expand...
"Through the words that mean light, earth, sun, and truth, malicious intent from higher dimensions is blocked by that power. It is a type of magic that is almost never used in battles between proper magicians."
 
Yea higher dimension is the correct translation.

Makes it less likely that Gods have qualitative superiority, but we will see what happens when I get to the eventual CRT.
 
Just finished vol 10, I swear if the author takes 2 years again for another volume.... It was getting good.

Overall, despite reading this series back in like 2017, still continues to entertain me, despite the standard tropes.

In terms of thoughts for power scaling? I think Reiji needs Volume 10, and Pre-Volume 10 keys, also don't think Pre-Volume 10 he should scale to Felmenia's 8-A feat, in fact don't think Felmenia herself should have a plain 8-A rating in her first key.

Fodder demons are imo 9-A and Subsonic, which is where scaling for Reiji, Mizuki comes.

As for 1-A idk, belief/faith seems to be the most powerful thing in verse, the mysteries including Gods can't exist if people don't believe in mysteries, however there is a good argument that Gods exist within the astral plane as pure power, and they gain form/identities via the beliefs of humans, well be interesting to see what others think about it.

Now just have to get through the edits and CRTS for AWLBA, then I can shift my attention here.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:

God's Can't Enter the Lower Plane Without Humans​


Snip
Click to expand...
The world has some anti-body or will of it own thing going on similar to Nasuverse counterforce that opposes things not from the world as far as I recall, I always scaled it in my head to tier 1 when they were tier 1 via that but never saw a reason to bring it up. I think it was in some explanation that brought up dark magic.
 
Godsatoshi23 said:
I will probably re-read it soon too, don't remember much of it now.


I checked in the raw, which you are referring to (v3c4), if I am not wrong. There seems to be higher dimensional kanji.
Click to expand...
Isn't this explicitly referring to the Astral Plane which is a separate dimension that is in a higher order? It's not like it refers to a vague dimension we don't know. I doubt that the kanji only means mathematical dimensions but idk Yappanese.

Edit: Idk asked and checked around briefly and it depends on the context to mean mathematical and metaphysical higher dimensions.
 
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PhantomØ4 said:
The world has some anti-body or will of it own thing going on similar to Nasuverse counterforce that opposes things not from the world as far as I recall, I always scaled it in my head to tier 1 when they were tier 1 via that but never saw a reason to bring it up. I think it was in some explanation that brought up dark magic.
Click to expand...
Wow, look who showed up, I thought you were never coming back lol.

If you can find that quote about the anti-body, that would be useful to add to the tier 1 thread.

PhantomØ4 said:
Isn't this explicitly referring to the Astral Plane which is a separate dimension that is in a higher order? It's not like it refers to a vague dimension we don't know. I doubt that the kanji only means mathematical dimensions but idk Yappanese.
Click to expand...
Had it checked, and higher dimension is the right translation, though higher realm or something like that could be meant but higher dimension is the most accurate, don't think it discredits anything
 
Think I found what you are talking about, the reason why resentment gets mixed into the Elements is because the world ejects the resentment of humans from its body.

“The pluses and minuses aren’t something that really need to be explored in detail at this point, but a portion of the spell becomes unknown, and the user becomes unable to grasp the technique itself. These are the two negatives. However, in general, it is a largely convenient formula. So next, dark magic draws out the deep resentment mixed in within that wide concept as power.”

Liliana knit her brow at this crazy conversation.

“Please... wait. Why is that kind of thing... mixed in within the Elements?”

“I’m also having trouble understanding this. Suimei-kun just said that magic is something used by communicating with the Elements. So how does that kind of thing end up being related to magic?”

“With regards to that, it was the intent of the people who created this magic system in the first place. I’ll start by answering Liliana’s question.”

The two girls nodded.

“In short, that thing known as hatred... As long as there are humans, it will exist. It’s something that never disappears.
No matter who it is, they cannot completely cast aside hatred and jealousy. Obviously, as the number of humans increase, so too do those feelings. Just like that, it simply multiplies without end, and eventually, it will completely fill up the shell known as the world.”

“Just what happens when that occurs?”

“What happens, huh...? In my world, it has already happened. As science and medical technology remarkably advanced, the number of people increased far too quickly. That pent-up resentment that could not be held on to accumulated all over the world. It all turned into occurrences of nothing but ridiculous phenomena. To put it simply, when that kind of thing accumulates, the world will become strange.”

Suimei looked at the girls and punctuated his statement by adding, “That’s how it is.”

The girls waited patiently for the rest of his explanation, still trying to decipher his words.

“Removing the abnormalities in one’s body is something anybody wants to do. That applies even to the larger concept known as a world. That’s why the world is always ejecting it outwards. I figure that what gets ejected ends up stopping in the place where the things known as the Elements reside, and begins to accumulate.”-Volume 4, Chapter 2

Idk about extrapolating what it does to resentment to preventing Gods from entering, that correlation isn't made here, though you could assume it.

Not sure if that makes things easier in proving 1-A either, since it would be a lower-dimensional stuff preventing something which should be qualitatively superior to it.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Wow, look who showed up, I thought you were never coming back lol.
Click to expand...
A, yeah, I realise now I always lose steam when it takes me x 4 as long to screenshot and upload everything into Imgur than it takes me to read the actual volume. Lol.
Celestial_Pegasus said:
<Snip>

Idk about extrapolating what it does to resentment to preventing Gods from entering, that correlation isn't made here, though you could assume it.

Not sure if that makes things easier in proving 1-A either, since it would be a lower-dimensional stuff preventing something which should be qualitatively superior to it.
Click to expand...
I remember there was some other instance that related to such thing... though the concept of the world that exists in the astral plane (as far as I have understood since the concept of the elements surround it + all concept things are there) is what rejects things so I would not say it exists on a lower order than them. Without finding the other things I vaguely remember, the ejecting phenomena is not limited to things like malice though since the guy Suimei fights his world and finds again in the new one got expelled off the world because Suimei targeted what bounded him to it rather than expelling him himself afaik. I'll try to get it cuz god, it's been years since I read this.

Celestial_Pegasus said:
Had it checked, and higher dimension is the right translation, though higher realm or something like that could be meant but higher dimension is the most accurate, don't think it discredits anything
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was more so asking if non-mathematical dimensions would not apply since if you look up the term in Japanese on google they seem to also use it for metaphysical things. Most words have context reliant meanings in any language after all and when I asked around a bit I also got the "language is context reliant" schpill.
 
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Celestial_Pegasus said:
Idk about extrapolating what it does to resentment to preventing Gods from entering, that correlation isn't made here, though you could assume it.
Click to expand...


Okay, yeah, I found some. Suimei's Grand Magicka technically does no BFRing, it simply erases the bond one has to the world/phase (which makes sense since why is lightning BFRing lol) and that causes the afflicted to be ejected "beyond the horizon of dimensions" and this is the exact same Magicka that he uses to deal with incarnated deities and send them to the abyss. So it's probably all the same thing.

Edit: The other thing I am remembering is something about how the evil god's power is unnatural/foreign to the world and as such is naturally opposed by the Elements.
 
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Yea, I think it makes sense, if someone/something isn't apart of/bonded to the world, the world rejects it.

I found the quote you're talking about, it's this

“The Evil God in the valley between the worlds—in other words, the astral plane—desires to fill this world with chaos. Even now, it’s watching vigilantly for an opportunity to do so from the astral plane. However, since its existence is anchored there, unlike back when it quarreled with your goddess long ago, it can’t interfere directly with this world. That’s why, in its stead, the demons who act as its servants are moved by its will. They’re loaned power for their faith and are now trying to drive the world into chaos.”

“Huh…”

“Well, it’s a little cliché, but from what I’ve heard, it’s probably something like that. Based on that story, it seems like they’re trying to ruin the world rather than take it back, but―Oops.”

Suimei wasn’t sure whether that applied to all demons, so the moment he mentioned it, he realized he was starting to
derail himself and got himself back on track.

“Well, enough of the details behind it. Those demons acting as puppets are… Let’s see. Let’s start with their specs… The physical strength of their bodies is superhuman, so they’re either beings that have followed a different evolutionary path, or perhaps that Evil God or whatever designed them to be that way. I don’t have enough to say one way or the other, but that’s the impression I get.”

“That is indeed an interesting theory.”

“Thanks. Anyways, since you mentioned divine protection, I’m guessing a large portion of the power they use comes from this Evil God dude. That’s what that pitch black aura that pours out of them is.”

“…Is that not just a characteristic power of the demons?”

“That’s what it seems like, but that isn’t a kind of power living beings should ordinarily have. There’s kind of a law that stipulates power that inherently opposes the world doesn’t naturally occur within the world. Thinking about it practically, nobody would consciously create something that would destroy themselves, right? Worlds are the same way. That’s how you know a power like that is unnatural, so to speak. That means they couldn’t have it unless they got it from somewhere else, and that somewhere else is…”-Volume 2, Chapter 3

It's stated here that there is a law that anything that opposes the world doesn't occur naturally.

It is also stated that the Elements are opposed to the Evil God

“Certainly. It does seem reasonable. It’s the first time that I’ve heard of anything touching upon the source of the demons’ powers. Based on what you said and thinking back on what I’ve heard, it does seem to be rather plausible.”

“Pretty good, huh?”

“Striking, certainly. There’s quite a bit in there to think about. You’re amazing, Suimei-kun.”

As Lefille gave an overly serious nod like she was admiring his cerebral handiwork, Suimei added on a supplemental explanation.

“Incidentally, I think the reason humans are able to fight against the demons is because of Alshuna’s divine protection, you excluded. It’s the reason why even normal guys have the power to oppose them. The Elements also fall under the category of things that are opposed to the Evil God, so the magic from mages is effective too.”

That was why even regular physical attacks could hurt them. Because the people of this world had their way of life tied to faith, that power naturally dwelt within them. And on top of that, the mages of this world summoned the power of the Elements that were strongly connected to Alshuna and the spirits, which gave them additional effective power against the demons.

At any rate, that was Suimei’s theory. Because the demons had divine protection from their Evil God, fundamentally, only magic from this world that opposed such a thing would really work against it. However, as long as the Evil God itself resided on the astral plane, it would end up in the same category as gods and devils from the astral plane. Consequently, the demons were a bloodline of evil existences, and magicka would be effective against them too. And just as Suimei was thinking this out to himself…-Volume 2, Chapter 3

But anyway the bond thing makes sense when you think how exactly a God interferes in the world, without humans Gods are just power, humans faith give them an identity, and then through gaining a vessel/name within the world, they can interfere, the more followers they have the more they can interfere.

Faith is basically just the bond between gods and their followers, through that bond they are tied to the world, break the bond, and the world rejects them since they aren't natural to the world.
 
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