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Since the forum move is finally underway thought this would be a good idea. Switching back to message walls on fandom seems like a pain.
Thread to discuss anything isekai mahou wa okureteru related.
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Isekai Mahou wa Okureteru Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Celestial_Pegasus
- Start date
Since the forum move is finally underway thought this would be a good idea. Switching back to message walls on fandom seems like a pain.
Thread to discuss anything isekai mahou wa okureteru related.
PhantomØ4
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Cool. Good idea. I don't know if you ever saw the question I left last time but it was just on Suimei's body control where he can put himself back together as long as his "mind" exists in a vague state just that it's a risky move, I think it was mentioned on him vs Titania. That does qualify for regen, no?
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Sounds so, but would have to see the context to confirm.
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@PhantomØ4 Where does the whole being able to offset RDE come from? If i am getting this right, RDE is law where the mysteries of the weaker magician gets shut down, in order to have resistance to this, wouldn't weaker magicians then need to not have their mysteries shut down against stronger ones?
There is also the fact that, it's only said to happen when there is a large power difference between 2 magicians, so it's not something that always happens. Just trying to understand the logic here.
Btw still have any interest in making the other profiles for the characters?
There is also the fact that, it's only said to happen when there is a large power difference between 2 magicians, so it's not something that always happens. Just trying to understand the logic here.
Btw still have any interest in making the other profiles for the characters?
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PhantomØ4
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May have used a word that isn’t really all that suitable, just thought that it sounded good iirc. But it comes from equal standing characters being capable of taking the RDE even if the law on the battlefield being in effect. Recall that Suimei was afraid that, when he was tasked with the dragon of the apocalypse thing, he’d be unable to do anything while everyone else did the job despite Rank Disparity being a AoE thing.
RDE also seems to be based off orders of existences/mysteries manifestation rather than just being weaker or stronger in the AP kind of way given that like for example when magicians activate their furnace they become higher order beings and trigger the manafield vibration that also happened when howler manifested or the sinister being. Lefille is another good example where she’d just be able to shut down magicka independently of her strength due to the Tlesma (power of the spirits) just being a higher order mystery than most magic and magicka. Mages just never noticed the law as no one ever manifested higher order mysteries from each other as it was said iirc.
Yes, there’s not that many left to do if I remember correctly. Did you have any in particular you were wanting to add?
Also, since we are in the topic of Isekai Mahou. I remember before higher-dimensional beings for gods without more detail wouldn’t get them to anything significant, but I remembered in the time I was gone that they’re conceptual existences and concepts have a sort of reality-fiction on transcendence over reality.. All of reality is merely a flimsy meaningless existence drawn on paper when from the astral plane. Just wanted to get your opinion on this while we were at it, figured it wouldn’t hurt.
RDE also seems to be based off orders of existences/mysteries manifestation rather than just being weaker or stronger in the AP kind of way given that like for example when magicians activate their furnace they become higher order beings and trigger the manafield vibration that also happened when howler manifested or the sinister being. Lefille is another good example where she’d just be able to shut down magicka independently of her strength due to the Tlesma (power of the spirits) just being a higher order mystery than most magic and magicka. Mages just never noticed the law as no one ever manifested higher order mysteries from each other as it was said iirc.
Yes, there’s not that many left to do if I remember correctly. Did you have any in particular you were wanting to add?
Also, since we are in the topic of Isekai Mahou. I remember before higher-dimensional beings for gods without more detail wouldn’t get them to anything significant, but I remembered in the time I was gone that they’re conceptual existences and concepts have a sort of reality-fiction on transcendence over reality.. All of reality is merely a flimsy meaningless existence drawn on paper when from the astral plane. Just wanted to get your opinion on this while we were at it, figured it wouldn’t hurt.
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In Suimei's case with the dragon didn't he just abra ca dabra it? Ie bfr to the astral plane or just straight up purification, i forgot which one, but point is those abilities are beyond Suimei's normal ones since they have been shown to affect Gods, so i wouldn't use Suimei as a baseline for everyone having it.
The Lefille example makes sense though, it is said that telesma is higher order and it does shut down mysteries via RDE, so the logic that higher order mysteries do that make sense. Question then is what would we consider higher order mysteries, Lefille qualifies, Magicians with their mana furnace qualify. Suimei would get resistance, Lefille has the hax, i guess the fact that Suimei and co's abilities don't get shut down around Lefille would give them the resistance.
Nope wasn't waiting, you can go ahead and add them.
This is Plato's theory of forms that everything you see and hear is just a representation of a transcendent concept. The astral plane is a higher dimensional, conceptual place that contains all creation, if it's conceptual, from it's perspective, the world it contains then is just a drawing, as that's how concepts are. Well i see the logic, it would be Low 1-C with that.
The Lefille example makes sense though, it is said that telesma is higher order and it does shut down mysteries via RDE, so the logic that higher order mysteries do that make sense. Question then is what would we consider higher order mysteries, Lefille qualifies, Magicians with their mana furnace qualify. Suimei would get resistance, Lefille has the hax, i guess the fact that Suimei and co's abilities don't get shut down around Lefille would give them the resistance.
Nope wasn't waiting, you can go ahead and add them.
This is Plato's theory of forms that everything you see and hear is just a representation of a transcendent concept. The astral plane is a higher dimensional, conceptual place that contains all creation, if it's conceptual, from it's perspective, the world it contains then is just a drawing, as that's how concepts are. Well i see the logic, it would be Low 1-C with that.
PhantomØ4
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He used enth Astrale to take down the dragon. Anyways, I thought you meant for anyone having it but okay.
Msysteries from what I can tell go Mages < Magicians (Lilliana triggering the law against the mages) < Magicka Furnace Magicians (become higher-order existences) =< Tlesma (Stated) < Divinities (Overpowered Lefille’s Tlesma; Are stated to be higher-order beings )=< Grand Scale Magicka/Suimei’s in specific (You know how the exchanges between Suimei and divinities went)
Alright, cool.
Msysteries from what I can tell go Mages < Magicians (Lilliana triggering the law against the mages) < Magicka Furnace Magicians (become higher-order existences) =< Tlesma (Stated) < Divinities (Overpowered Lefille’s Tlesma; Are stated to be higher-order beings )=< Grand Scale Magicka/Suimei’s in specific (You know how the exchanges between Suimei and divinities went)
Alright, cool.
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That assessment of mysteries makes sense to me.
Mahou characters getting Low 1-C hax, would make them even more absurd, Yogiri vs Suimei would become one sided lol, unless the fabled revisions up his tier.
Mahou characters getting Low 1-C hax, would make them even more absurd, Yogiri vs Suimei would become one sided lol, unless the fabled revisions up his tier.
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Resistance to law manipulation and power null, yea.
Besides that, the explanations of it too probably, instead of offset RDE, something more like abilities don't get shut down by higher order mysteries that trigger RDE, something like that.
That said, ppl who have fought Magicians with the mana furance ignited would have the resistance, so would Suimei.
Why do you think, regular magicians without using their furnace, would have it? Has a regular Magician who isn't Suimei ever come up against RDE or high order mysteries and their abilities don't get shut down?
Besides that, the explanations of it too probably, instead of offset RDE, something more like abilities don't get shut down by higher order mysteries that trigger RDE, something like that.
That said, ppl who have fought Magicians with the mana furance ignited would have the resistance, so would Suimei.
Why do you think, regular magicians without using their furnace, would have it? Has a regular Magician who isn't Suimei ever come up against RDE or high order mysteries and their abilities don't get shut down?
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PhantomØ4
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Lilliana and Howler are the key to giving magicians resistance. She proved she howler can trigger RDE against Mages. Yet while on the raid of Germany, Felmenia while not using Magicka furnace was cable of using Magicka without RDE. Even all the other average magicians they were fighting were not affected by it and only had to worry about Lefille’s RDE.
Well that and Felmenia’s dispel capabilities she gained as well as Liliana’s crows screeches destabilizing the integrity of spells. Which by the way means that those things can bypass resistance to power null like RDE, although I kind of have an idea as to why but not sure how translatable that is into the wiki.
Well that and Felmenia’s dispel capabilities she gained as well as Liliana’s crows screeches destabilizing the integrity of spells. Which by the way means that those things can bypass resistance to power null like RDE, although I kind of have an idea as to why but not sure how translatable that is into the wiki.
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Makes sense, the profiles should probably also explain, the levels to RDE too.
Don't think the profiles even explain how potent RDE even is, that it nulls multiversal concepts.
When you left for a bit, some ppl were doubting it, saying that magic while from multiversal concepts such as the Elements, don't scale to the full thing, nobody could bring a counter once i mentioned Dark Magic though, which explicitly uses stuff directly from a higher dimension and affects things meant to protect higher dimensional beings.
Don't think the profiles even explain how potent RDE even is, that it nulls multiversal concepts.
When you left for a bit, some ppl were doubting it, saying that magic while from multiversal concepts such as the Elements, don't scale to the full thing, nobody could bring a counter once i mentioned Dark Magic though, which explicitly uses stuff directly from a higher dimension and affects things meant to protect higher dimensional beings.
PhantomØ4
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Yes, how should that be worded? For example for Suimei who has the longest scaling chain.
“Resists the effect of Rank Disparity Extinction, a law that shuts down all mystical phenomena. His abilities don’t get shut down by divinities who are higher-order existences than the tlesma, which in turn is a higher-order mystery than Magicka-furnace magicians who are higher-order existences over magicians who’s body is endowed in higher-order mysteries over Mages.”
Albeit Lilliana and Felmenia didn’t have much problem facing Suimei (probably because author hadn’t taught about the law at that point in the story) but it can also be attributed to Lilliana’s dark magic being a high-order mystery.
Demons and their miasma, I’m not sure where to put. They might just get resistance to RDE on Tlesma level and not trigger it due to the nature of their power being borrowed power from the God that does not belong in world normally. Albeit I don’t know if their total resistance to Magicka in the second volume could be attributed to that? So they fall between magicians and Magicka furnace magicians? Then demon generals like Rajas can affect Lefille and block her power of the spirits with their miasma. The misma also reminded Suimei of a Magicka furnace iirc. So inbetween tlesma and divinity or just tlesma level? After all V2 and V4’s resistance to magic and Magicka for Lefille was retconned to be self RDE.
mages Can only affect demons because of the elements directly opposing the nature of the evil god. Not sure if I missed any more pieces to the puzzle.
“Resists the effect of Rank Disparity Extinction, a law that shuts down all mystical phenomena. His abilities don’t get shut down by divinities who are higher-order existences than the tlesma, which in turn is a higher-order mystery than Magicka-furnace magicians who are higher-order existences over magicians who’s body is endowed in higher-order mysteries over Mages.”
Albeit Lilliana and Felmenia didn’t have much problem facing Suimei (probably because author hadn’t taught about the law at that point in the story) but it can also be attributed to Lilliana’s dark magic being a high-order mystery.
Demons and their miasma, I’m not sure where to put. They might just get resistance to RDE on Tlesma level and not trigger it due to the nature of their power being borrowed power from the God that does not belong in world normally. Albeit I don’t know if their total resistance to Magicka in the second volume could be attributed to that? So they fall between magicians and Magicka furnace magicians? Then demon generals like Rajas can affect Lefille and block her power of the spirits with their miasma. The misma also reminded Suimei of a Magicka furnace iirc. So inbetween tlesma and divinity or just tlesma level? After all V2 and V4’s resistance to magic and Magicka for Lefille was retconned to be self RDE.
mages Can only affect demons because of the elements directly opposing the nature of the evil god. Not sure if I missed any more pieces to the puzzle.
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Felmenia vs Suimei in vol 1 was pure PIS honestly, don't think we should take anything there seriously.
Demons miasma and Telesma should be around the same i think.
Demons miasma and Telesma should be around the same i think.
PhantomØ4
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Fair enough, author didn’t seem to have made up his mind as to where Suimei and the series was heading at that point. Like Felmenia surviving all of a Magicka furnace powered enth Astrale which blew away the dragon of the end (even if it was at 50% power).
Of all demons or of demon generals in specific?
Unfortunate that the wiki doesn’t have power null types (even the not number kind like fear manipulation) since Suimei has like 7 types of null that even if you resist one doesn’t mean you resist the others.
Of all demons or of demon generals in specific?
Unfortunate that the wiki doesn’t have power null types (even the not number kind like fear manipulation) since Suimei has like 7 types of null that even if you resist one doesn’t mean you resist the others.
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what types of power null does he has? The only types of power null i know is severing from source of power, sealing abilities and anti energy
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@PhantomØ4 I meant the generals, we don't even have profiles for the other demons that's not generals anyway,
@Setsuna_tenma Of the top of my head, Suimei can unravel a spell, take control of an area with his aura to prevent spells from manifesting, destabilize a spell's probability so it doesn't happen, steal a spells essence, stop the activation of spells, forcefully cancel spells before they happen.
@Setsuna_tenma Of the top of my head, Suimei can unravel a spell, take control of an area with his aura to prevent spells from manifesting, destabilize a spell's probability so it doesn't happen, steal a spells essence, stop the activation of spells, forcefully cancel spells before they happen.
PhantomØ4
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Yeah so basically he messes with the manifestation capabilities, probability, energy-source, essence, the attack, and the deeper integrity of the attack itself or the princes between when the energy-spruce and manifestation, the development of the attack per say.
@CelestialPegasus I meant the demons because they’re relevant to the scaling chain if they lie in-between.
By the way BFR should probably be added to Suimei thinking back on it. Since Abeq ad abra kicks out those who are hit from the plane of the world if they manage to resist it and acativley rejects them by erasing all bonds they had with it (why greed of 10 couldn’t come back)
@CelestialPegasus I meant the demons because they’re relevant to the scaling chain if they lie in-between.
By the way BFR should probably be added to Suimei thinking back on it. Since Abeq ad abra kicks out those who are hit from the plane of the world if they manage to resist it and acativley rejects them by erasing all bonds they had with it (why greed of 10 couldn’t come back)
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Suimei doesn't already have BFR? Idk how that was missed.
PhantomØ4
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We discussed it before and somehow needed you it’s just EE.
But anyways, that aside. Have you checked out the author’s new LN series? “The magician who rose from failure“. The worlsbuilding/power-system of the author is pretty developed as always. Within half of volume 1 we get more details as to magic works that most isekai in a way that makes sense. Opposite of how we learn in Isekai Mahou of Suimei explaining others it’s mostly the MC learning alongside the reader.
I wonder if this will be one of the other worlds.
The only thing I’m not very fond of is it being a shota protagonist, hope he ages him up. Shame that the furthest twilight never got translated or licensed either, since it takes place back on Suimei’s world and it might have had Suimei’s father based on illustrations.
But anyways, that aside. Have you checked out the author’s new LN series? “The magician who rose from failure“. The worlsbuilding/power-system of the author is pretty developed as always. Within half of volume 1 we get more details as to magic works that most isekai in a way that makes sense. Opposite of how we learn in Isekai Mahou of Suimei explaining others it’s mostly the MC learning alongside the reader.
I wonder if this will be one of the other worlds.
The only thing I’m not very fond of is it being a shota protagonist, hope he ages him up. Shame that the furthest twilight never got translated or licensed either, since it takes place back on Suimei’s world and it might have had Suimei’s father based on illustrations.
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It only has 1 volume out, so haven't read it, i usually wait for series to have at least 3-4 volumes before starting them.
I am like 300 chapters into another series right now, and have several LN to read or catch up on, + multiple VN i want to start.
I am like 300 chapters into another series right now, and have several LN to read or catch up on, + multiple VN i want to start.
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@PhantomØ4 Where is this scan from that states magic is conceptual and thus a magical fire can't be put out by normal water? I know i have also seen it, but can't for the life of me find it.
Btw made a blog for the cosmology of the verse, hence why i am asking, it's a work in progress.
Btw made a blog for the cosmology of the verse, hence why i am asking, it's a work in progress.
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Found it, gonna work on the blog some more.
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What Phantom said, i only listed direct mentions of RDE, the others aren't really worth mention, it's just gonna be scaling to what's already known.
I guess i could add Gods with all the stuff about there being nothing a magician can do to them, being higher existences, yada yada.
Blogs not done, still have stuff to add like physic chill, heroes, sword saints etc.
I guess i could add Gods with all the stuff about there being nothing a magician can do to them, being higher existences, yada yada.
Blogs not done, still have stuff to add like physic chill, heroes, sword saints etc.
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Pegasus, is your blog finished?
I'm asking becouse, if you haven't added the stuff like psych chill, the spell psych cold the Demon use, sword Saints, etc......,you could send me the needed scans to make a profile for the rest of the Demon generals.
And, if it's possible, I know this is minor, but It would be good if we also do a profile for fodder demons
So you would have less work to do.
I'm asking becouse, if you haven't added the stuff like psych chill, the spell psych cold the Demon use, sword Saints, etc......,you could send me the needed scans to make a profile for the rest of the Demon generals.
And, if it's possible, I know this is minor, but It would be good if we also do a profile for fodder demons
So you would have less work to do.
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It's not finished, busy doing other stuff, i have less time than before, so a whole lot of nothing is getting done, like i have 2 or 3 verses i want to make, but don't have time for that.
My focus right now is keeping up with what i am currently into ie seasonal anime, manga etc, which then leaves me with little time, so i am currently using that to through the VN i am currently reading, it's pretty good.
As for the other demon generals there is not much to add to them, the fodder general whose name starts with V, would be Low 7-C, with standard demon abilities and type 9 immortality. The one who curse Lefille would be High 7-A, standard demon abilities? Flight and like thread manipulation, would to have to recheck if i have that right, the rest are too vague from what i remember to have profiles, besides the Man Eater, maybe.
I do have time on like Wednesdays, but if i am being honest this verse isn't a priority right now.
My focus right now is keeping up with what i am currently into ie seasonal anime, manga etc, which then leaves me with little time, so i am currently using that to through the VN i am currently reading, it's pretty good.
As for the other demon generals there is not much to add to them, the fodder general whose name starts with V, would be Low 7-C, with standard demon abilities and type 9 immortality. The one who curse Lefille would be High 7-A, standard demon abilities? Flight and like thread manipulation, would to have to recheck if i have that right, the rest are too vague from what i remember to have profiles, besides the Man Eater, maybe.
I do have time on like Wednesdays, but if i am being honest this verse isn't a priority right now.
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Ah I see, then when you have time.
But seriously, if I recall correctly, there was a Demon general stronger than Rajas.
And, I thought you told me that you could a profile for all the 7 generals, without leaving any one behind. For example, the one who can turn into a Spatial ambiguity can be used.
But seriously, if I recall correctly, there was a Demon general stronger than Rajas.
And, I thought you told me that you could a profile for all the 7 generals, without leaving any one behind. For example, the one who can turn into a Spatial ambiguity can be used.
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Said i would make more profiles, not that all of them would have profiles.
The one with the spatial ambiguity is who i was calling V. The thing with the top tier generals is we haven't seen the full extent of their abilities, we know where they scale, but like with the Female General who curse Lefille, when they fought she just caught Lefille in her threads from what i remember, if they had a lot of abilities, i would have made the profiles a while ago, it's cause there isn't much that i didn't.
Anyway, i will work on the verse some, on Wednesday, no promises though.
The one with the spatial ambiguity is who i was calling V. The thing with the top tier generals is we haven't seen the full extent of their abilities, we know where they scale, but like with the Female General who curse Lefille, when they fought she just caught Lefille in her threads from what i remember, if they had a lot of abilities, i would have made the profiles a while ago, it's cause there isn't much that i didn't.
Anyway, i will work on the verse some, on Wednesday, no promises though.
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Man eater? Or that one dude from Suimei's world who uses phases? Sin of Greed or whatever his name is, i don't remember, would have to relook at stuff,
Based off my memory, Rajas was said to be strong, hence why he was chosen to invade the human territories, he is a frontline general, while the V guy by feats and statements is just Base Suimei level.
The female general who cursed Lefille was said to be on the same level as Rajas, and has directly fought Lefille using the full power of the spirits. Man Eater is on that level too.
The one from Suimei's world had to be tag teamed by Suimei and others, and was said to be like a million times stronger than Demon General V, not to mention it being a desperate fight for Suimei, pretty sure it's that dude that's above Rajas.
Based off my memory, Rajas was said to be strong, hence why he was chosen to invade the human territories, he is a frontline general, while the V guy by feats and statements is just Base Suimei level.
The female general who cursed Lefille was said to be on the same level as Rajas, and has directly fought Lefille using the full power of the spirits. Man Eater is on that level too.
The one from Suimei's world had to be tag teamed by Suimei and others, and was said to be like a million times stronger than Demon General V, not to mention it being a desperate fight for Suimei, pretty sure it's that dude that's above Rajas.
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Man Eater was really from Suimei's world?
And also, didn't Eanru kill him long time ago?
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? No i never said that, i am talking about someone else, Man Eater is from the isekai world, the natural predator of humans who fought Eanru a long time ago.
I am talking about the Sin of Greed, whose name i don't remember right now, who is basically an environmental extremist, loves nature, and basically wants to wipe out humanity. He ends up in the isekai world after he fought Suimei and others back in their world, and is now working with the demons.
I am talking about the Sin of Greed, whose name i don't remember right now, who is basically an environmental extremist, loves nature, and basically wants to wipe out humanity. He ends up in the isekai world after he fought Suimei and others back in their world, and is now working with the demons.
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Ah I see.
Yes I remember, I think we could make a profile for him also, along with the man eater.
Also, Man eater was killed by Eanru, no?
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