Invincible Downgrade

[Antvasima]

Well, we can place them at "Unknown, but officially reated as weaker than the Mauler Twins" if we have no feats to scale them to.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

The Small Country result has not yet been evaluated?

Not yet, but your Large Island version of the calc was approved.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I made a calc for one of Robot's original armors.

Given the fact that it's one of his larger and stronger armors his main armor would likely downscale from it if it's approved.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Okay so the Robot calc I made got approved so we could use that for his normal armors. We could just format the page like this:

Attack Potency: Human level | Small Building level (Can do this much damage to Flaxan mechs) | At least Large Island level (Capable of tearing apart Invincible Reanimen and easily killing Hybrid Viltrumites), possibly much higher or Multi-Continent level (Mark noted that he had weapons capable of harming Thragg. Has drawn blood from Invincible before, though this could be due to Sonic Vibrations) Speed: Average Human | Varies up to Massively FTL+ (Shown to be comparable to Immortal and Bulletproof speed wise. Robot suits can keep up with Viltrumites, though ultimately they're much slower) | Varies up to Massively FTL+ (Stopped blows from Invincible) Lifting Strength: Average Human | Unknown | At least Class K (Superior to invincible Reanimen who are comparable to an early Mark) Striking Strength: Human level | Small Building Class | At least Large Island Class Durability: Human level | Small Building level | At least Large Island level Keys: Base | Basic Armors | Titanium-Volcanic Armors

We could also format the Angstrom Levy page like this:

Attack Potency: Small Building level | At least Small Building level, likely far higher (His body was rebuilt by the Technicians to be far stronger than before. Managed to stagger Invincible. His orbs could stagger Bulletproof and Kid Omni-Man) Speed: Average Human | At least Average Human, likely higher, with Massively FTL+ combat/reaction speed (Should be faster than before. Could keep up with Invincible during their fight.) Lifting Strength: Unknown | Unknown Striking Strength: Small Building Class | At least Small Building Class, likely far higher Durability: Small Building level (Survived this explosion) | At least Small Building level, likely far higher Keys: Base | Upgraded Body

 

[Qawsedf234]

If that's good all we have left is the LS thing and we can apply the changes

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Why is there "Varies" in speed?

Because their speed is really inconsistent. Sometimes they can fly to other solar systems in days, other times they can barely make it a few miles in about a minute.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I mean it also happens so often it's kind of hard to find an accurate speed for them because it varies so often. I think that was the justification behind it.

Plus there's also conflicting statements saying that they use some warp jump thing to go to other solar systems but we also just see them physically flying there in the comics without warping there.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Anyways, do we have any good lifting feats for Immortal?

 

[Dark-Carioca]

None as far as I'm aware, guidebooks aside. He's not much of a lifter from what I remember.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Well if there's literally nothing we could just use the guidebook or just put Unknown if we're really desperate.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Because their speed is really inconsistent.

Wouldn't that be PIS? This thing is common in fiction

Its neither of these things. Allen's speed description states that his reaction speed increases proportionally with how fast he is moving. Due to the uniform nature of smart atoms this speed aspect seems to be a universal base aspect with their powers.

In other words if Mark is going mach 5 he will have reactions for mach 5 speed. If he is going 10x FTL he will have reactions to support that speed. Which is why they have a varied rating, because their speed will canonically vary.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I think its better to create a note explaining this

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Yeah. Would it be better to put it on the verse page itself or the profiles?

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Both. Both is good.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I think its better to create a note explaining this

I did

Varies, up to Massively FTL+ (Allen's reflexes are enhanced directly proportional to his speed. Meaning his reaction speed canonically varies depending on his current speed. Capable of flying inter-stellar and inter-galactic distances)

Varies, up to Massively FTL+ (Fought evenly with with two parallel versions of Invincible, and due to the nature of Smart Atoms its likely his speed operates on a similar principal. Capable of rapidly flying inter-stellar distances)

 

[Qawsedf234]

Every profile list I've made links back to Allen or someone who scales to Allen though.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I mean, the main problem there is the massive scaling chains from those verses. I feel like if it all links back to Allen it should be fine.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah it would be better to just add a section to every profile with a MFTL+ thing to just link to Allen directly.

 

[Hellbeast]

Honestly I feel the variable explanation should be a note on all the profiles

 

[Qawsedf234]

So maybe we should do this for Viltrumites

Weaknesses: The Smart Atoms of Viltumites cannot withstand high temperatures for long periods of time, with prolonged exposure heavily weakening their strength and durability as the atomic bonds are ripped apart. Pinpoint high intensity sound waves can disrupt a Viltrumite's inner ears and highly sensitize equilibrium, disrupting their flight, causing intense pain or potentially death. The Scourge Virus is a specially engineered virus that infects Viltrumites and severely hampers their strength and invulnerability, usually resulting in death. The Klaxus Plant will poison and weaken the species.

And this for everyone's speed

Note: The majority of characters in Invincible gain their powers from Smart Atoms, or subatomic particles that enhance various characteristics of the user's body. Smart Atoms generally operate under the same ruleset, which in this case includes speed. As noted by Allen's handbook, his reaction speed is canonically proportional to how fast he is moving at the moment. Considering the uniformity of their power sets and that the explanation serves as viable in-universe reasoning about speed issues, the people in Invincible have a variable speed rating to reflect that their reaction speed is canonically not always the same.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Yeah that could work

 

[Antvasima]

Just a note that I am very uncomfortable with scaling Robot's weaker original armors or Angstrom Levy to the speed levels of Viltrumites. I strongly doubt that they were moving at full speed. Alternately it was just plot induced stupidity.

Also, again, the Viltrumites use space-warps (similar to hyperspace) for interstellar travel. They should not have anywhere near Massively FTL+ speeds on their own.

According to the handbooks they move at most at relativistic speeds, but the handbooks are useless when it comess to actual lifting strength levels, so I am uncertain if it is reliable.

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with Qawsedf234's note and Viltrumite weakness sections in any case.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I only put Angstrom Levy's combat/reaction speed at Massively FTL+ cuz he could fight Invincible, but if something like relativistic would work better then we could use that.

 

[Qawsedf234]

If we're doing that then it'd look like the following:

• Varies up Relativistic+. MFTL+ with subspace warps.

 

[Antvasima]

If we're doing that then it'd look like the following:

• Varies up Relativistic+. MFTL+ with subspace warps.

Yes. That is much better in my opinion.

 

[Antvasima]

I only put Angstrom Levy's combat/reaction speed at Massively FTL+ cuz he could fight Invincible, but if something like relativistic would work better then we could use that.

Was Invincible going at full speed? Again, the smart atoms officially make them differ a lot in speed from time to time.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Was Invincible going at full speed? Again, the smart atoms officially make them differ a lot in speed from time to time.

We don't really have a set speed for that moment but given his reaction I assumed he would be going pretty fast. He was going in for the kill during that scene and was only stopped when Angstrom left. We could put varies for him as well considering we don't know exactly how fast he was going.

 

[Chariot190]

Just a note that I am very uncomfortable with scaling Robot's weaker original armors or Angstrom Levy to the speed levels of Viltrumites. I strongly doubt that they were moving at full speed. Alternately it was just plot induced stupidity.

Robot has some escape velocity feats iirc so there's that at least.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I don't really recall any escape velocity feats for his original armors but if that is true then he should have High Hypersonic speed.

 

[Chariot190]

I don't really recall any escape velocity feats for his original armors but if that is true then he should have High Hypersonic speed.

Well, define "original", he absolutely has one later on, but it isn't early on, there's a feat a bit after the dinosaurqs shit, where Robot and co flies up into space to try and take Mark in. It was pre-timeskip, pre-volcanic armor, etc but it wasn't super early either so like

We could likely find some scaling though none the less if "original" means like, his very first armor but if by original you just mean before his big quantifiable upgrades, well escape velocity a thing.

Edit: Issue 88, it was with a drone, though it may or may not be designed for space, who knows.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Well, define "original", he absolutely has one later on, but it isn't early on, there's a feat a bit after the dinosaurqs shit, where Robot and co flies up into space to try and take Mark in. It was pre-timeskip, pre-volcanic armor, etc but it wasn't super early either so like

We could likely find some scaling though none the less if "original" means like, his very first armor but if by original you just mean before his big quantifiable upgrades, well escape velocity a thing.

When I say "original" I just mean his non-volcanic armors,

 

[Chariot190]

When I say "original" I just mean his non-volcanic armors,

Well, this was quite a bit before the volcanic ones, though we could probably find better scaling, though this would be a travel feat at least that would likely scale in general to his shit.
Especially because the whole varies thing doesn't apply to Robot, he doesn't have smart atoms, it's all designed to be a certain way bar his reactions, which can easily be handwaved given his whole schtick.

Edit: Upon closer inspection, the whole squad had jetpacks that seem to have been designed by Robot, so it's definitely something he can do en mass techwise.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Well, this was quite a bit before the volcanic ones, though we could probably find better scaling, though this would be a travel feat at least that would likely scale in general to his shit.
Especially because the whole varies thing doesn't apply to Robot, he doesn't have smart atoms, it's all designed to be a certain way bar his reactions, which can easily be handwaved given his whole schtick.

We could set his speed at "High Hypersonic with up to Relativistic+ combat/reaction speed" or "up to Massively FTL+ combat/reaction speed" depending on if we use the warp jump explanation or not.

 

[Hellbeast]

Just a note that I am very uncomfortable with scaling Robot's weaker original armors or Angstrom Levy to the speed levels of Viltrumites. I strongly doubt that they were moving at full speed. Alternately it was just plot induced stupidity.

I agree low tiers or even early Mark should probably not scale to the MFTL stuff

Also, again, the Viltrumites use space-warps (similar to hyperspace) for interstellar travel. They should not have anywhere near Massively FTL+ speeds on their own.

Yeah thatd probably just be portal shows

According to the handbooks they move at most at relativistic speeds, but the handbooks are useless when it comess to actual lifting strength levels, so I am uncertain if it is reliable.

Relativistic certainly seems consistent but we could dig to find feats in that range

If we're doing that then it'd look like the following:

• Varies up Relativistic+. MFTL+ with subspace warps.

This is good but I feel we could list the lower end as well (minor critique but it could help to establish the range of their amps)

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Do we have any good speed feats to scale them to if Relativistic+ is too high?

I mean we could use High Hypersonic considering Invincible does have several escape velocity feats.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Also we should probably wait for Migue79 to reply to Jasonsith's revised calc for Immortal and Bulletproof. Depending on what end is chosen, their APs could vary.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Yeah it probably shouldn't be pulverization. Should we wait to see if he says High 6-C or Low 6-B is better still?

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Okay then. Do you have any ideas on what their speed should be?

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Huh, so Small Country level cast it is