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I take that as a yes then.Trunks being capable of destroying souls or not is irrelevant here especially when we have iz is zamasu's will
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I take that as a yes then.Trunks being capable of destroying souls or not is irrelevant here especially when we have iz is zamasu's will
Has I said before why does this matter,You all believe Zamasu is existing as a thought/will/whatever, but do you also all agree that no property of Trunks's attack had the capability, or, was stated to have the capability to destroy a soul with his spirit bomb sword? Yes or no?
I'm going off the page for Abstract Existence, fam. The way I saw the scene was that Trunks cuts Zamasu, destroys his body and Zamasu's soul/will lives on as Infinite/Mugen Zamasu, who has Type 1 AE.You all believe Zamasu is existing as a thought/will/whatever, but do you also all agree that no property of Trunks's attack had the capability, or, was stated to have the capability to destroy a soul with his spirit bomb sword? Yes or no?
If you believe in your side then double down on your beliefs.Has I said before why does this matter,
So he did destroy his soul? Ok.I'm going off the page for Abstract Existence, fam. The way I saw the scene was that Trunks cuts Zamasu, destroys his body and Zamasu's soul/will lives on as Infinite/Mugen Zamasu, who has Type 1 AE.
Trunks destroying Zamasu's soul with the Sword of Hope wasn't really a factor.
I don't understand what you're saying broIf you believe in your side then double down on your beliefs.
So he did destroy his soul? Ok.
im not understanding what are u askingYou all believe Zamasu is existing as a thought/will/whatever, but do you also all agree that no property of Trunks's attack had the capability, or, was stated to have the capability to destroy a soul with his spirit bomb sword? Yes or no?
Bro, hot take questions aren't going to get us anywhere. Would you mind explaining why that's important to AE for Infinite Zamasu?If you believe in your side then double down on your beliefs.
So he did destroy his soul? Ok.
exacly like explain why that would matter alreadyBro, hot take questions aren't going to get us anywhere. Would you mind explaining why that's important to AE for Infinite Zamasu?
As... will, will is like, thoughts/feelings, which is an abstractionWhat's one definition of Zamasu's will that you all agree on?
I assumed by will, it was referring to Zamasu's stream of consciousness and thoughts, as IZ was still consciously going to merge with the universe and other timelines to carry out the Zero Mortal Plan.What's one definition of Zamasu's will that you all agree on? So we're all on the same page? Because I'm hearing his will, mind, thought, etc.
Close but not quiteI think I figured out what he's saying.
Then why don't you just say what you're actually trying to articulate instead of making us guess? The guessing game isn't productive at all, friend.Close but not quite
If you were referring to me, I apologize. I never meant to taunt, I was just asking for clarity while addressing someone who was against Infinite Zamasu having AE.Honestly this thread should be close. There was a lot of confusion and taunting along the way. Also, this is very controversial and should of been done on its own thread.
IZ Abstract Existence upgrade needs to be redone on separate CRT with all new stuff that were brought up.
Also, it should be well structured and avoid using "Law and Justice" argument.
Why? IZ thing is literally one of the main things of the CRTIZ Abstract Existence upgrade needs to be redone on separate CRT with all new stuff that were brought up.
Except that nobody used it after allAlso, it should be well structured and avoid using "Law and Justice" argument.
Don't worry they are not refering to youIf you were referring to me, I apologize. I never meant to taunt, I was just asking for clarity while addressing someone who was against Infinite Zamasu having AE.
Again, Abstract Existence upgrade is very controversial and should be done on a separate thread.Why? IZ thing is literally one of the main things of the CRT
So let me get this straight.My thing is (and I'm sure the staff probably think similar ideas) is the lack of on-screen evidence. I saw someone mention Gurren Lagann as a false equivalency example, but the two series are drastically different. For one, the type of space they were in was Super Spiral Space, which was stated by the creator of that universe that thought was given form there. Not only that, but the main cast created this same type of space within themselves.
What we know about Zamasu was that his body was the only thing granted immortality, which was why he was taking on a grotesque form in his fused state, because his immortality was no longer pure. All life in DB that isn't erased exist as souls, and if you die as a soul you cease to exist, this is a fact that goes back to regular DBZ. Gowasu speculated "he's cast off his form as a god / cast off his divine vessel" and might be trying to merge with the universe. If he was a soul, then this is doable as a soul without needing abstract existence, though in any regard it doesn't make sense how he could do it, regardless of which approach you believe in, just that he did do it.
I've also seen comparisons to Giygas as "he embodied evil", but again this character also has feats to back it up. He existed as all of the evil in the universe, and could actually manipulate evil in living beings, and could manipulate nonliving objects. Zamasu was speculated to possibly be overcoming the universe's law and order, which as AKM said, is flowery language. For those of you who like to cherry pick arguments and stopped reading at my last sentence, that's not at all my main point. All Zamasu did was turn into a vast, ethereal range of seemingly instinctual intelligence, and shoot ki blasts at Earth. Him being reduced down to his "will" (simply put, his disembodied consciousness) is an ability nobody has nor was it stated in the actual show, which means further evidence is required. Basing an entire argument on "Toei's website said so" is literally an invincible authority fallacy.
I probably won't reply further until there is more staff input, because we'll continue to go back and forth all day.
I said people were going to cherry pick my argument and not comprehend my entire message as soon as I typed that statement and look what happens....this is why you are making 0 progress.Okay
So let me get this straight.
the website which is owned by the company who makes the literal show isn't reliable.
also please people should read. We are not giving him AE for embodying a concept, literally no one in the supporters is arguing for that. We are giving him that because of his will, will is an emotion which is absract.
I don't think anyone in the supporting side is arguing for law or whatever, we are talking about his will and no, AE is the main focus for now, we don't care about "controversial", we have an argument that supported by evidence, it doesn't matter how "ridiculous" or how "not dragon ball like" if anyone is going to use these arguments, by all due respect stop debating, because those aren't arguments, it's the absence of an argument.Again, Abstract Existence upgrade is very controversial and should be done on a separate thread.
Law Manipulation was rejected but users will come in and talk about it even though it was rejected.
Staff and users that disagree. That's not Abstract Existence. They did not bother to read all the responses and the new stuff that was added along the way.
We are on page four and we are talking about AE but not Supernatural Willpower which the only thing that is not controversial to add.
This is a cluster **** and it will get worse....
The ironyI said people were going to cherry pick my argument and not comprehend my entire message as soon as I typed that statement and look what happens....this is why you are making 0 progress.
I deleted that post because I know its going to go off-topic, but I disagree and believe everything is a concept, however it much deeper than that. However I'm not going to go into a full-blown philosophical debate because I already see how severely this thread will be derailed.
You know that being made by will/thoughts is rated as Abstract Existence right? And the Law stuff already was rejected a lot of pages ago, nobody is talking about it anymore, and it is not controversialAgain, Abstract Existence upgrade is very controversial and should be done on a separate thread.
Law Manipulation was rejected but users will come in and talk about it even though it was rejected.
Staff and users that disagree. That's not Abstract Existence. They did not bother to read all the responses and the new stuff that was added along the way.
We are on page four and we are talking about AE but not Supernatural Willpower which the only thing that is not controversial to add.
This is a cluster **** and it will get worse....
You actually don't need to be the embodiment of a concept to be abstract reallyI deleted that post because I know its going to go off-topic, but I disagree and believe everything is a concept, however it much deeper than that. However I'm not going to go into a full-blown philosophical debate because I already see how severely this thread will be derailed.
Taking my leave from this thread now.
The problem with your argument is that the show has no anti feats supporting itI said people were going to cherry pick my argument and not comprehend my entire message as soon as I typed that statement and look what happens....this is why you are making 0 progress.
My thing is (and I'm sure the staff probably think similar ideas) is the lack of on-screen evidence. I saw someone mention Gurren Lagann as a false equivalency example, but the two series are drastically different. For one, the type of space they were in was Super Spiral Space, which was stated by the creator of that universe that thought was given form there. Not only that, but the main cast created this same type of space within themselves.
What we know about Zamasu was that his body was the only thing granted immortality, which was why he was taking on a grotesque form in his fused state, because his immortality was no longer pure. All life in DB that isn't erased exist as souls, and if you die as a soul you cease to exist, this is a fact that goes back to regular DBZ. Gowasu speculated "he's cast off his form as a god / cast off his divine vessel" and might be trying to merge with the universe. If he was a soul, then this is doable as a soul without needing abstract existence, though in any regard it doesn't make sense how he could do it, regardless of which approach you believe in, just that he did do it.
I've also seen comparisons to Giygas as "he embodied evil", but again this character also has feats to back it up. He existed as all of the evil in the universe, and could actually manipulate evil in living beings, and could manipulate nonliving objects. Zamasu was speculated to possibly be overcoming the universe's law and order, which as AKM said, is flowery language.
All Zamasu did was turn into a vast, ethereal range of seemingly instinctual intelligence, and shoot ki blasts at Earth. Him being reduced down to his "will" (simply put, his disembodied consciousness) is an ability nobody has nor was it stated in the actual show, which means further evidence is required.
Him being reduced down to his "will" (simply put, his disembodied consciousness) is an ability nobody has nor was it stated in the actual show, which means further evidence is required. Basing an entire argument on "Toei's website said so" is literally an invincible authority fallacy.
I probably won't reply further until there is more staff input, because we'll continue to go back and forth all day.
The argument for Abstract Existence is because Infinite Zamasu is Zamasu Will itself that it's acting on it own, and the Abstract Existence page mentions things like Feeling/Thoughts being Abstracts, which is the reason that Jujutsu Kaisen curses have Abstract ExistenceAlso, what other than abstract existence has been suggested here? Becoming a universe rather than a concept, does not seem sufficient to me in that regard.
And the counter arguments are not well made, it's people saying that ''laws and order are only hyperbole'' despite it not being the argument that we are using for Abstract Existence to Infinite ZamasuThe argument for Abstract Existence is because Infinite Zamasu is Zamasu Will itself that it's acting on it own, and the Abstract Existence page mentions things like Feeling/Thoughts being Abstracts, which is the reason that Jujutsu Kaisen curses have Abstract Existence
The ae here is being suggested for infinite zamasu being zamasu's will which is further supported by toei's official timeline stating is zamasu's willSo, again, can somebody write a reasonably comprehensive explanation, that is still easy to understand, of what is being suggested here, along with the arguments against and for it, please? Then I can call some staff afterwards.
Also, what other than abstract existence has been suggested here? Becoming a universe rather than a concept, does not seem sufficient to me in that regard.
So, again, can somebody write a reasonably comprehensive explanation, that is still easy to understand, of what is being suggested here, along with the arguments against and for it, please? Then I can call some staff afterwards.
Also, what other than abstract existence has been suggested here? Becoming a universe rather than a concept, does not seem sufficient to me in that regard.