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『INFINITE UNIVERSE IN DRAGON BALL SUPER』

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TheShape03 said:
It is said that the scale of the world is beyond human understanding and you decide to give more importance to one human's statement than to multiple statements in different guides?
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I am taking offense to this because Beerus himself was relying on Bulma's technology. Is Beerus below human understanding?
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
I am taking offense to this because Beerus himself was relying on Bulma's technology. Is Beerus below human understanding?
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Beerus relying on Bulma technology
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When??

Technology is one thing, doesn't correlate much with how human can understand the size of the universe and what out there

Also why Beerus??, the guy who practically sleeping and eating most of the time. Frieza is more reliable than Beerus if we talking about universe
 
Vietthai96 said:
When??

Technology is one thing, doesn't correlate much with how human can understand the size of the universe and what out there

Also why Beerus??, the guy who practically sleeping and eating most of the time. Frieza is more reliable than Beerus if we talking about universe
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To look for the Super Dragon Balls.

Also, I think its quite silly to claim that Bulma, who created a time machine, cannot comprehend the universe.
 
Sus said:
it can have both an edge and a center

imagine a circle with an infinite radius
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Isn’t a circle with infinite radius just R^2? Doesn’t this analogy require R^2 to be bounded and have an edge for it to work?

I know there are more mathematically involved arguments for this, but language and analogies used in some of these examples seem detrimental to the actual mathematics going on to allow the universe to have an edge and be infinite.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
To look for the Super Dragon Balls.
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Oh sure, the same guy who, doesn't even know what Earth is and where it is, despite claimed to destroy the dinosaur

Also, she has what it need to create Dragon Ball Radar which track Dragon Ball signature. No one going to find a bunch of Dragon Ball as large as planet that spread across the universe with eyes and nose alone when they can make a radar to find it
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Also, I think its quite silly to claim that Bulma, who created a time machine, cannot comprehend the universe.
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you will be surprise with how many fictions out there have people know to make time related machine, but don't know the entire universe

anyway, time and space is unrelated in this matter, time isn't superior to space when it come to knowledges. Having understanding of how time work and how to mess with it doesn't suddenly make you superior to, and automatically know how space work, especially in fictions where thing doesn't follow what we normally expected
 
Vietthai96 said:
Oh sure, the same guy who, doesn't even know what Earth is and where it is, despite claimed to destroy the dinosaur
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The point is, Beerus who is a God of Destruction relied on the wits of a human being.

Vietthai96 said:
Also, she has what it need to create Dragon Ball Radar which track Dragon Ball signature. No one going to find a bunch of Dragon Ball as large as planet that spread across the universe with eyes and nose alone when they can make a radar to find it
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Someone who can create a device that scans space, should have understanding on how the universe works.

Vietthai96 said:
anyway, time and space is unrelated in this matter, time isn't superior to space when it come to knowledges. Having understanding of how time work and how to mess with it doesn't suddenly make you superior to, and automatically know how space work, especially in fictions where thing doesn't follow what we normally expected
Click to expand...

Space and time are entangled. You cannot understand one without understanding the other.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
The point is, Beerus who is a God of Destruction relied on the wits of a human being.
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One or two exception doesn't make a rule, especially a God like Beerus who almost does nothing most of the time for his universe

Iamunanimousinthat said:
Someone who can create a device that scans space, should have understanding on how the universe works.
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The radar doesn't scan space, it scan DB signature, and only pin point its location if it catch the signature

Iamunanimousinthat said:
Space and time are entangled. You cannot understand one without understanding the other.
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And??, understanding space-time have anything to do with how big the universe is or what out there??, we dealing with fiction you know??, literally the scan stated the universe is beyond human understanding, not space-time is beyond human understansing
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
It is not. Trying to throw away Bulma's statement by saying she can't comprehend the universe because she is a human flies against her accomplishments in the show.
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Where is it written that knowing the size of the Universe is more difficult than knowing how to travel through time? I know, what I'm saying seems absurd, but time travel itself is something fictional and we don't know how science and astrology developed in the world of Dragon Ball.
 
Vietthai96 said:
Uma ou duas exceções não fazem uma regra, especialmente um Deus como Beerus que quase não faz nada na maior parte do tempo pelo seu universo


O radar não escaneia o espaço, ele escaneia a assinatura do banco de dados e só indica sua localização se ele captar a assinatura.


E??, entender o espaço-tempo tem algo a ver com o quão grande o universo é ou o que está lá fora??, estamos lidando com ficção, sabe??, literalmente a varredura declarou que o universo está além da compreensão humana, não o espaço-tempo está além da compreensão humana
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exactly
 
Vietthai96 said:
And??, understanding space-time have anything to do with how big the universe is or what out there??, we dealing with fiction you know??, literally the scan stated the universe is beyond human understanding, not space-time is beyond human understansing
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Seems like a weird argument given we’re arguing about the size of the spacetime…
 
Hasty12345 said:
Seems like a weird argument given we’re arguing about the size of the spacetime…
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And, ngl here, in our real world, Einstein made General Relativity Theory about space-time and his equation predict even Black Hole, but did he anyone after him know the exact size of the universe??. Like time travel, space-time is one thing, how large the universe is is completely different thing.

In verse, Bulma created time machine, okay??, but she need to reverse engine of Frieza corp spaceship to make spaceship, or does she know how many planets out there in the universe??, no. You guys make it like that because she know how space-time work, and made time machine, she is so great that her knowledges also cover everything else, even our real life do not work like that, let alone fictions
 
Vietthai96 said:
And, ngl here, in our real world, Einstein made General Relativity Theory about space-time and his equation predict even Black Hole, but did he anyone after him know the exact size of the universe??. Like time travel, space-time is one thing, how large the universe is is completely different thing.
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Einstein didn’t create time machines that can travel to conceptually non existent planes and higher order timelines
 
I'm not going back and forth on this because my stance is clear. If the evidence for a infinite universe rests upon disregarding Bulma as being incapable of understanding the universe, then I am a hard disagree. Someone who created a device that scans space for hidden dragon balls and can create a time machine, and can reverse engineer a spaceship, has understanding of how the universe works and that singular line in the databook should be disregarded as superfluous language.
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
2. There can be an infinite distance between 2 points in mathematics, so that’s not a contradiction either. For example, the cardinality of the set of numbers between 0 and 1 being equivalent to the set of real numbers which are uncountable infinity.
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There can be an infinite distance between two points, say, infinity and -infinity in the extended reals, but 0 and 1 are not an example. The distance between 0 and 1 on the real line is |0-1|=1, not uncountably infinite, there is uncountably infinitely many points between them, but that’s not the same thing.

(Not really related to the thread, and what you said isn’t generally wrong, just wanted to correct that)
 
Hasty12345 said:
Einstein didn’t create time machines that can travel to conceptually non existent planes and higher order timelines
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And again, when did making time machine mean you are near omniscient to the point of knowing everything??

Also, the one who actually make time machine from nothing is future Bulma, who we don't even know the full extent about her, the present Bulma made time machine based on the time machine left by her future self, doesn't make her magically know everything in the universe

Iamunanimousinthat said:
I'm not going back and forth on this because my stance is clear. If the evidence for a infinite universe rests upon disregarding Bulma as being incapable of understanding the universe, then I am a hard disagree. Someone who created a device that scans space for hidden dragon balls and can create a time machine, and can reverse engineer a spaceship, has understanding of how the universe works and that singular line in the databook should be disregarded as superfluous language.
Click to expand...
I repeat for the last time
1. No one claimed she do not and can't not understand the universe, she can understand it, but not all of it, at least the the time she made all the claim about universe.
2. Dragon Ball Radar didn't scan space, it only find DB signature, it doesn't give you the answer about how large space is

Anyway, i just love that somehow you guys just clinging to that she made time machine, so she must know everything in the universe, while conveniently forgot that she do not know alot of thing
 
Eclipso said:
There can be an infinite distance between two points, say, infinity and -infinity in the extended reals, but 0 and 1 are not an example. The distance between 0 and 1 on the real line is |0-1|=1, not uncountably infinite, there is uncountably infinitely many points between them, but that’s not the same thing.

(Not really related to the thread, and what you said isn’t generally wrong, just wanted to correct that)
Click to expand...
I gotcha, when I’m mentioning the numbers between 0 and 1 I keep saying distance on accident. I’m referring to the uncountable numbers of reals though. But yeah, I just want to use it as an example that there can be an infinite distance between 2 points.


Also I’m ngl, this discussion about whether Bulma’s statement is true or not doesn’t matter. Idk why y’all are harping on it like it contradicts whether an infinite number of galaxies exist within the universe. I’m not gonna be surprised if other staff like damage disagree fra from the worthless discussion on the validity of Bulma’s statement. Even though, Bulma’s statement does not contradict the infinite amount of galaxies.
 
Vietthai96 said:
And again, when did making time machine mean you are near omniscient to the point of knowing everything??

Also, the one who actually make time machine from nothing is future Bulma, who we don't even know the full extent about her, the present Bulma made time machine based on the time machine left by her future self, doesn't make her magically know everything in the universe


I repeat for the last time
1. No one claimed she do not and can't not understand the universe, she can understand it, but not all of it, at least the the time she made all the claim about universe.
2. Dragon Ball Radar didn't scan space, it only find DB signature, it doesn't give you the answer about how large space is

Anyway, i just love that somehow you guys just clinging to that she made time machine, so she must know everything in the universe, while conveniently forgot that she do not know alot of thing
Click to expand...
This makes sense, I agree with this, and the Bulma who made the time machine, was from another timeline
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
I'm not going back and forth on this because my stance is clear. If the evidence for a infinite universe rests upon disregarding Bulma as being incapable of understanding the universe, then I am a hard disagree. Someone who created a device that scans space for hidden dragon balls and can create a time machine, and can reverse engineer a spaceship, has understanding of how the universe works and that singular line in the databook should be disregarded as superfluous language.
Click to expand...
The Dragon radar doesn’t scan an entire space it just points you in the right direction. Plus as stated before her assessment is also based on something that’s unknowable to her.
 
Vietthai96 said:
2. Dragon Ball Radar didn't scan space, it only find DB signature, it doesn't give you the answer about how large space is
Click to expand...
This is like saying an ocean radar built to detect sea mines in the ocean, doesn't scan the ocean.
ChoursDropoff said:
The Dragon radar doesn’t scan an entire space it just points you in the right direction. Plus as stated before her assessment is also based on something that’s unknowable to her.
Click to expand...
This is false. Episode 31 Time mark: 2:20, literally shows a circular radar scanning space.



This entire argument requires that when Bulma states that they are at the edge of the universe, she's factually wrong and doesn't understand that the universe is infinite, even though the narrative of the show doesn't depict her as wrong and no one corrects her or points on her mistake.
 
omegabronic said:
......how does time travel have anything to do with knowing about the real size of the universe or how it functions?
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In order to travel from one point in time and space to another point in time and space, you need to have good understanding of where you are. How can someone who can build a time machine and a space machine not understand where they are relative to the rest of the universe???
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
スケールを持つ世界観であることがわかるだろう


Translation of the newest guide made here
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If this is the statement you guys are drawing upon for “beyond human comprehension” stuff, it’s blatantly not saying the universe is infinite and is clearly talking about the vastness of the verse.

Not to mention that the “DB WORLD” includes things like Dr Slump, otherworld, kaishin world, zenos palace etc

Not to mention is literally hyperbole. This statement does not refute Bulma.

I should also mention I agree with the CRT but not at the expense of making Bulma out to be an idiot.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
In order to travel from one point in time and space to another point in time and space, you need to have good understanding of where you are. How can someone who can build a time machine and a space machine not understand where they are relative to the rest of the universe???
Click to expand...
Not if you always end on up on the same planet in the same universe in every timeline. Speaking of, I think Bulma not knowing about 11 other universes is pretty big
 
First of all, the Bulma who made the time machine is not the Bulma who made the statement.

The Bulma who did that did not understand the universe, nor how she even knew how to get to the center of the universe, if she knew everything about the universe she would know it accordingly.

Even Jaco tells Bulma that her getting to the center is impossible. And they opted to go ask an omniscient being Zuno, and the subject was not discussed any more.

The Bulma who rebuilt the time machine was thanks to the Bulma of the future, who left her notes so that Bulma of the present could understand how to do it.

Clearly, the knowledge varies greatly between the two Bulma
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
In order to travel from one point in time and space to another point in time and space, you need to have good understanding of where you are. How can someone who can build a time machine and a space machine not understand where they are relative to the rest of the universe???
Click to expand...
When did Bulma create a space machine to travel the entire Universe? Bulma created a space machine to go from Earth to Namek (and it's a machine that was already prepared for that, because it's a Namek's own). Vegeta's machine, it is not known how far in the Universe it can travel, because it is the same as Goku's, so it can be theorized that it can also travel great distances, like from Earth to Namek.

Another point, the Bulma who created the time machine is the Bulma of the future, not the Bulma of the present, the one of the present created the time machine based on the notes of her future self; the one of the present had no knowledge to create the time machine. So, using that as an argument kind of defeats the purpose.

Somewhat ironically, Bulma of the future created a time machine, but not a space machine that can go from Earth to New Namek (details I suppose).
 
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Hasty12345 said:
I should also mention I agree with the CRT but not at the expense of making Bulma out to be an idiot
Click to expand...
No one claimed Bulma is an idiot, what we arguing that, the universe is beyond human understanding, and Bulma do not know the entire universe. And when did being not know something equal to being an idiot??

Iamunanimousinthat said:
This is false. Episode 31 Time mark: 2:20, literally shows a circular radar scanning space.
Click to expand...


Sure, scan the space, literally the radar screen composed of only a green background with a square grid board on it, how the hell it going to tell you the the size of space with that kind of technology??

Also even if i'm going with your point that it can scan space, literally it show that the radar can't scan the entire universe, that why she said they need to go to the suppose center of universe (after that she got debunked by Jaco), the very same technology that she created that can scan space according to your argument, can't even scan all Super Dragon Ball at once, let alone scan the entire universe to answer the question about how big the universe is.

Also in the same youtube video i posted for you, the radar didn't even distinguish differences between objects and only show signature of Dragon Ball, which do not allow them to find out that the very planet that they standing on is actually a Super Dragon Ball covered in rock until Whis figured it out, how a technology of that level can tell us how big the space is??

Also, Super Dragon Ball Radar is just an upgrade version of normal Dragon Ball Radar that was used to scans Earth's Dragon Balls, Bulma just expand the scan range in order to catch Super Dragon Ball which scattered across the universe. The same Earth's Radar that can't even tell you how big the Earth is, how it upgraded version with expanded scaning range gonne tell you how large the universe is??
 
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