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Here we go again. But this does need be figured out. Last time around we left the qualifications for the Infinite Speed ratings via Void feats in murky waters, with some questionable and even paradoxical reasoning. Brought up again here.
As is, we usually accept Infinite Speed for being born in or primarily inhabiting a timeless void, yet do not accept infinite speed for temporarily existing in one.
But temporarily or any length of time doesn't work if the void has no time. Any time spent there would pass instantly, and thus it would not matter if it is one's "natural habitat" or not. To quote Dino Ranger Black,
"I believe everyone here is still missing the big issue in the room and that is the fact that there still isn't a proper way to determine the Infinite speed. Because so far, the only argument against Super Dimentio and his speed feat is the fact the user does not exist within the void or time-space to begin with, which was not notified in this speed page. Several characters in this wiki such as Time Eater (Sonic) and Death (Discworld) does not originate from it and yet they still receieve the rating for the same exact reasons that applies to SD and yet this is the only factor for downgrade. I'm perfectly fine for the downgrade if the reasons are established but the fact it's not nor revised makes the acceptance completely selective and used against certian characters of choice.
Reviewing the speed page and note, in order to to qualifiy for the speed, one must be able to move indefinitely while time literally stands still, or to travel anywhere instantly. Characters who showcase the ability to move freely and naturally in a timeless void may qualify for an infinite speed rating so long as it is not a huge Outlier or Plot-Induced Stupidity or Inconsistency. Such feats will have to be very carefully evaluated on a case-by-case basis. The Tribe of the Ancients and Darkness can freely exist outside universes. They created Flipside and Flopside, realms between universes, for beings below them to be able to travel between them and they created the Pure Heart to counter the Chaos Heart. Count Bleck is a member of the latter and SD should be superior to him and logically can survive The Void and can also recreate them. Speaking of which, The Void itself is omnipresent with nothingness and completely destroy time, space, and just anything that exists. We clearly see this with the aftermath of Sammer's Kingdom. All this clearly fits the bill and we just seem to ignore it over an unofficial rule we have yet to established. Not to mention this will affect other character within the same Speed tier."
Similarly, I express my thoughts, also taken from the same thread.
"I'll be 100% real with y'all right now. Infinite Speed for existing outside of time, while it may make sense logically, isn't really something that fiction acknowledges. Just because something is able to exist in, live in, or be born into a timeless realm doesn't mean that said timelessness carries over to a realm with time.
The only characters that come to mind that are legit infinite speed without trying to reach logically are Zoom and Dormammu. I am sure there are others, but just because someone comes from the Dark Area (Digimon) or the Void (many fictions) doesn't mean that they can move at infinite speed. If other characters that have never shown any inkling of infinite speed can move with and comprehend said characters WITHOUT the character CISing his way into being seen or comprehensible, then that character should NOT be infinite speed if all other logic points to the lack of infinite speed.
Take the Spirit Beast. It tunneled through a universe and destroyed portions of it, leaving a void without time or space. Narratively, the Beast has a timer on when it will finish the tunnel and arrive in the real world. If the Beast left time to inhabit a timeless realm of its own creation, there should be no timer, however. It would be in the real world instantly. Similarly, the World Guardia is capable of interacting with and containing the Beast in the Spirit World, yet has never shown any hint of infinite speed.
If the character hasn't shown an indicator of being able to achieve infinite speed outside of a timeless realm, that character shouldn't have infinite speed, imo. This solves the "natural habitat" or "most of their lives" issue and cuts out some beings who really haven't displayed the ability to move at such absurd speeds."
So I will propose this: We take a more strict approach the infinite speed in regard to voids. A character should only receive infinite speed if it is mentioned or backed up by other feats or statements. For characters who were spawned in a timeless void but then show no sign of retaining such speeds, in either scaling or narrative, they should not have this speed rating.
Objection: "This will make infinite speed far more exclusive and hard to reach. This is too demanding of the fiction."
And yet we demand exceptional evidence for Lightspeed feats, Mass-Energy conversion feats, black hole feats, among others. We have higher standards for lightspeed than we do infinite and immeasurable speed, despite the latter two being infinitely faster than a light dodging feat (and literally everything else, too).
Even if we don't go with my suggestion, we do need a well defined criteria that doesn't allow for constant revision threads and opinion. It has been long enough for us to see that this is too inconsistent to treat as case-by-case in the way we have.
As is, we usually accept Infinite Speed for being born in or primarily inhabiting a timeless void, yet do not accept infinite speed for temporarily existing in one.
But temporarily or any length of time doesn't work if the void has no time. Any time spent there would pass instantly, and thus it would not matter if it is one's "natural habitat" or not. To quote Dino Ranger Black,
"I believe everyone here is still missing the big issue in the room and that is the fact that there still isn't a proper way to determine the Infinite speed. Because so far, the only argument against Super Dimentio and his speed feat is the fact the user does not exist within the void or time-space to begin with, which was not notified in this speed page. Several characters in this wiki such as Time Eater (Sonic) and Death (Discworld) does not originate from it and yet they still receieve the rating for the same exact reasons that applies to SD and yet this is the only factor for downgrade. I'm perfectly fine for the downgrade if the reasons are established but the fact it's not nor revised makes the acceptance completely selective and used against certian characters of choice.
Reviewing the speed page and note, in order to to qualifiy for the speed, one must be able to move indefinitely while time literally stands still, or to travel anywhere instantly. Characters who showcase the ability to move freely and naturally in a timeless void may qualify for an infinite speed rating so long as it is not a huge Outlier or Plot-Induced Stupidity or Inconsistency. Such feats will have to be very carefully evaluated on a case-by-case basis. The Tribe of the Ancients and Darkness can freely exist outside universes. They created Flipside and Flopside, realms between universes, for beings below them to be able to travel between them and they created the Pure Heart to counter the Chaos Heart. Count Bleck is a member of the latter and SD should be superior to him and logically can survive The Void and can also recreate them. Speaking of which, The Void itself is omnipresent with nothingness and completely destroy time, space, and just anything that exists. We clearly see this with the aftermath of Sammer's Kingdom. All this clearly fits the bill and we just seem to ignore it over an unofficial rule we have yet to established. Not to mention this will affect other character within the same Speed tier."
Similarly, I express my thoughts, also taken from the same thread.
"I'll be 100% real with y'all right now. Infinite Speed for existing outside of time, while it may make sense logically, isn't really something that fiction acknowledges. Just because something is able to exist in, live in, or be born into a timeless realm doesn't mean that said timelessness carries over to a realm with time.
The only characters that come to mind that are legit infinite speed without trying to reach logically are Zoom and Dormammu. I am sure there are others, but just because someone comes from the Dark Area (Digimon) or the Void (many fictions) doesn't mean that they can move at infinite speed. If other characters that have never shown any inkling of infinite speed can move with and comprehend said characters WITHOUT the character CISing his way into being seen or comprehensible, then that character should NOT be infinite speed if all other logic points to the lack of infinite speed.
Take the Spirit Beast. It tunneled through a universe and destroyed portions of it, leaving a void without time or space. Narratively, the Beast has a timer on when it will finish the tunnel and arrive in the real world. If the Beast left time to inhabit a timeless realm of its own creation, there should be no timer, however. It would be in the real world instantly. Similarly, the World Guardia is capable of interacting with and containing the Beast in the Spirit World, yet has never shown any hint of infinite speed.
If the character hasn't shown an indicator of being able to achieve infinite speed outside of a timeless realm, that character shouldn't have infinite speed, imo. This solves the "natural habitat" or "most of their lives" issue and cuts out some beings who really haven't displayed the ability to move at such absurd speeds."
So I will propose this: We take a more strict approach the infinite speed in regard to voids. A character should only receive infinite speed if it is mentioned or backed up by other feats or statements. For characters who were spawned in a timeless void but then show no sign of retaining such speeds, in either scaling or narrative, they should not have this speed rating.
Objection: "This will make infinite speed far more exclusive and hard to reach. This is too demanding of the fiction."
And yet we demand exceptional evidence for Lightspeed feats, Mass-Energy conversion feats, black hole feats, among others. We have higher standards for lightspeed than we do infinite and immeasurable speed, despite the latter two being infinitely faster than a light dodging feat (and literally everything else, too).
Even if we don't go with my suggestion, we do need a well defined criteria that doesn't allow for constant revision threads and opinion. It has been long enough for us to see that this is too inconsistent to treat as case-by-case in the way we have.
