InFAMOUS: The story of a Low 6-B electric man

[Schnee_One]

Well we both brought different points

IMO only Evil Cole goes to High 7A, everyone else is M+

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Well we both brought different points
IMO only Evil Cole goes to High 7A, everyone else is M+

I seem to remember Kessler physically overpowering Evil Cole at one point during the fight. In fact, he does this on both routes before Zeke comes in to save the day. (And gets launched skyhigh for his troubles.)

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Well like I said, we literally have no clue as to how much each substation boosted him by, only that it did in fact give him a boost each time he used it

This is confirmed by early game Cole stating that Alden was more powerful than him, and later, after using ~2 substations, he was able to stand on even grounds.

And just before going to fight Kessler, John remarks how Cole needs to gain more power before running off, as Kessler was both well prepared and more powerful than Alden and Cole at the time (hence, why Cole briefly considered taking Alden's offer to team up against Kessler, as he was unsure of his ability to fight him alone).

So, I'm not sure how to proceed on the topic, but I will say that we shouldn't scale any characters to inFamous 1 Evil Cole, as not only is the evil route non-cannon, and they had to basically retcon the first game evil ending in order to keep it flowing into the second game (in the 1st evil ending, Cole becomes a bloody tyrant of Empire City, who's content on never leaving his "kingdom" to explore the outside world. In inFamous 2, evil Cole has a completely different personality, and it starts by him preparing to willingly leaving Empire with Kuo, only to be interrupted by the Beast)

Huhhh, just when I thought I was done with inFamous regions, now we have to discuss scaling for the whole verse agai

 

[Schnee_One]

I seem to remember Kessler physically overpowering Evil Cole at one point during the fight. In fact, he does this on both routes before Zeke comes in to save the day. (And gets launched skyhigh for his troubles.)

The issue is, Evil Cole isn't canon, and if Kessler could do that, it would cause a contradiction, as Kessler would be=Evil Cole=Good Cole despite Evil Cole being 2X stronger then Good Cole

 

[DMUA]

As I mentioned, it was implied that Kessler was holding back against Cole because he was tired of killing, so it's possible.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

My interpretation has always been that Kessler holds back in the final fight. Especiallly since he manages to grab Cole immediatley after words before dropping dead and has way more powers than first game Cole ever gets.

 

[Schnee_One]

As I mentioned, it was implied that Kessler was holding back against Cole because he was tired of killing, so it's possible.

Problem is he says this in both routes. And it can also be interpreted as somemone going all out in order to see if their past self is strong enough to handle saving the world and beating the Beast

And this makes sense considering Kessler even during the fight says Cole was weak and a failure. Along with overpowering Cole and nearly finishing him off if Zeke hadn't stepped in.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

As I mentioned, it was implied that Kessler was holding back against Cole because he was tired of killing, so it's possible.

Problem is he says this in both routes. And it can also be interpreted as somemone going all out in order to see if their past self is strong enough to handle saving the world and beating the Beast
And this makes sense considering Kessler even during the fight says Cole was weak and a failure. Along with overpowering Cole and nearly finishing him off if Zeke hadn't stepped in.

He says Cole was weak in both routes which seems to imply he's stronger than both.

 

[Schnee_One]

That's after initially overpowering him. When he gets saved by Zeke, Cole defeats him.

Also read my above.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

That's after initially overpowering him. When he gets saved by Zeke, Cole defeats him.
Also read my above.

And yet Kessler still manages to give Evil Cole a pretty good fight and the fight plays out the same on both routes. If Evil Cole was that much stronger than Kessler there wouldn't have been a fight at all.

 

[Schnee_One]

Evil Cole isn't canon tho

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Evil Cole isn't canon tho

And what does that have to do with what we see happen when Evil Cole fights Kessler?

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

So, I'm not sure how to proceed on the topic, but I will say that we shouldn't scale any characters to inFamous 1 Evil Cole, as not only is the evil route non-cannon, and they had to basically retcon the first game evil ending in order to keep it flowing into the second game (in the 1st evil ending, Cole becomes a bloody tyrant of Empire City, who's content on never leaving his "kingdom" to explore the outside world. In inFamous 2, evil Cole has a completely different personality, and it starts by him preparing to willingly leaving Empire with Kuo, only to be interrupted by the Beast)

Just gonna post this on why we don't allow the inFamous 1 evil story to effect the AP stats

While it is true that Kessler still fights Evil Cole after he gets the 2x power boost from the Ray Sphere, the evil story is non-canon, and we only follow the confirmed canon good storyline. Its the reason we don't currently scale Kessler to Evil Cole, who is Mountain level+

Now, if we are willing to use the substation boosts to boost the verse to Mountain level+, then Kessler and co will be Mountain level+. And Evil Cole will be 2x stronger, since he us confirmed to get another boost from the Ray Sphere, though he won't scale to anyone since he is non canon.

As for the Kessler thing, kinda agree with the notion that Kessler wanted to die, since he did note that he was tired after years of fighting and killing and even in the final battle, Kessler was slowly ramping up his intensity to test Cole and push him to the limits, you notice how he starts bringing out more and more powers the lower his health gets

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

So, what are people feeling on this one?

 

[Schnee_One]

My thoughts

High 7A E Cole

7A+ for David, EoG Cole and Kessler

7A+ Alden and Maybe Sasha?

 

[DMUA]

Hmm.....

How about, as a compromise, we have At least 7-A+, Possibly High 7-A Kessler?

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

I think at least 7A+ for Kessler is fine, cause he does eventually die from attacks from another 7A+

I think 7A+ Sasha and Alden is fine, since they do fight Cole after he performs the 7A feat, and after he's used a few substations, but they'd still be weaker than EoG Cole, Kessler and David, as Cole had absorbed more substations at that point in the story

What about for inFamous 2 and SS?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I agree with At least 7-A+, Possibly High 7-A Kessler. Given that it was implied that he let Cole win in both routes.

 

[Schnee_One]

I kinda agree with PTSO on this one.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I think at least 7A+ for Kessler is fine, cause he does eventually die from attacks from another 7A+

A 7-A+ he was holding back against. Especially when his fight against evil Cole goes the exact same way, with Kessler being implied to have held back. Backed up by the fact that he still gets up and manages to grab Cole in both routes in order to give him visions of the future even after being beaten and does so before Cole can react. At least 7-A+, possibly High 7-A seems like a good compromise.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

I disagree with the notion that he was holding back. While I agree that he wanted the die, the whole reason Kessler went back to the past was to mold Cole into the man that he couldn't be. Everything he did, from taking control of the First Sons, to killing Trish, to psychologically torturing Cole was all for the sole purpose of toughening Cole up. He didn't want Cole soft or weak. He says this to him numerous times throughout the game.

Kessler wanted Cole to kill him in the final battle, yes, but he didn't make it easy for Cole. He kept trash talking him, bringing up his family and past failures, and kept unveiling more and more powers to throw at him the longer it went on to push Cole to the max. He wanted Cole to kill him at his best. Thats why he was so frustrated when, at the beginning, when Cole was struggling and overwhelmed by Kessler's attacks. But after Kessler injured Zeke, Cole finally found the strength to get up and get back in the fight. And Kessler still keep pulling out new powers.

Kessler wasn't holding back. If he did, it would contradict all his dialogue, actions and ideologies that were presented in the game, cutscenes, dead drops and comics. Kessler's dialogue after he knocks Zeke back even implies that he was serious "No one is gonna save you this time." "This is nothing Cole, it gets much worse."

Kessler getting up after the beating is an endurance feat at most, cause remember, Cole was exhausted as well, and was caught off guard/put into a state of shock when Kessler said he loved Trish, leaving the tired and drained Cole unprepared for Kessler to charge at him. And then Kessler DIED from his injuries. If he had tanked them, he would have no damage whatsoever.

At least 7A+ is a good spot for EoG Cole and Kessler

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Kessler getting up after the beating is an endurance feat at most, cause remember, Cole was exhausted as well, and was caught off guard/put into a state of shock when Kessler said he loved Trish, leaving the tired and drained Cole unprepared for Kessler to charge at him. And then Kessler DIED from his injuries. If he had tanked them, he would have no damage whatsoever.

At least 7A+ is a good spot for EoG Cole and Kessler

But Cole was still exhausted in both routes. That fight was still a massive trial for him even with the power from the second Ray Sphere. Evil Cole still struggled at the beginning of the fight. Hence, at least 7-A+, Possibly High 7-A for Kessler. Also, where does the second Ray Sphere making Evil Cole twice as strong come from? John swiped it from him before it could fully boost him. He definitely got a power boost but who's to say it's as big as we think it is?

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Cole was exhausted, and shocked by what Kessler said, so him getting blitzed isn't surprising.

Evil Cole is non-cano, the events of the evil karma story are a "what if?" scenario, and do not effect characters in the canon good storyline. That is why Kessler is not currently Mountain level+, since Evil Cole is currently Moutain level+ via 2x power boost. Kessler fighting Evil Cole doesn't matter cause the evil route is non canon, so no one can scale other than Evil Cole. They even had to retcon the inFamous 1 evil ending so that it would fit with the sequel.

The 2x power boost from the Ray Sphere comes from a quote from Cole stating that using it again will make him twice as strong, and even though John swiped it from him, he still noted, after the explosion, that he "got what he wanted," and his pleased reactions and increase in power storage bar back up the notion that he got a power boost. Kessler also noted, both in his dialogue in game and in the comics, that using the Ray Sphere multiples a Conduits power with each use (see the links above for the scans)

 

[The_Wright_Way]

But in that what if scenario, Evil Cole was still exhausted. Just as much as Cole was on the Good Route. Hence, At Least 7-A+, Possibly High 7-A.


And about Evil Cole being retconned with his decision to go to New Mariea, it's entiely possibly he just changed his mind about staying in Empire City. The rest of the second game still shows that the two characters personalities have significantly changed however. You could still chalk that up to character development in between the first and second games. Good Cole's personality got changed alot in the second game, too. He's a lot more jokey and casual in the second game.

 

[Schnee_One]

Why are we still considering what happened in the non-canon evil route?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Why are we still considering what happened in the non-canon evil route?

Because it's still a part of the profile.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

We aren't using inFamous 1 evil Coles stats to effect any of the canon profiles. inFamous 1 Evil Cole is just his own separate thing, who's story isn't apart of the storyline. His actions do not have any impact on the accepted canon.

Cole has always been a jokey character. All throughout inFamous 1 he makes snarky, sarcastic and jokey comments. The only difference is that in the first game he was more jaded cause he was pissed at what had happened to him. The only reason he isn't as grumpy in the second game is because he learns, after the Kessler and David battles, that he has to get over himself in order to contribute to the greater good.

 

[DMUA]

Berp

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

So, what's the verdict? I got a bunch of really good inFamous matchups in mind, but I don't wanna make them until the tiers are solidified.

 

[DMUA]

Low 6-B electric man is good to go

High 7-A bad guy electric man is too.

I guess we don't want High 7-A old electric man.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Well, I guess I'm down for the upgrades (we still need to note that Evil Cole is 2x stronger and therefore likely High 7A and everyone else is 7A+)

 

[Schnee_One]

I have a question of a bunch of abilities

Where does Matter resistance and transmutation resistance come from for Beast? I understand it for Cole and the likes.

And as for the High 6A+ feat for Beast? It needs to be written off.

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Matter resistance comes from the fact that John has shown to have control over his own atomic structure. He rebuilds his body after getting atomized, and does something to himself to transform from his human form to his Beast form.

I don't think he should have transmutation. Cole gets it because he resists being turned into Beast matter, but the Beast can't say the same. I think it slipped in during revisions.

Yeah, High 6A+ needs to go

 

[Schnee_One]

If he gets atomized he clearly doesn't resist it, it's just him regenerating

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

He was atomized by the AP of the Ray Sphere, while his powers were inactive

 

[ByAsura]

Why is Kessler's timeline Beast being written off?

We should provide a source for the 2x stronger thing. So here - This scene also shows the Atomization thing you guys were talking about.

 

[DMUA]

Kessler stated he could have stopped the Beast in the early days.

Also this is not an outlier, note this scene, the moon is busted here, and he says he can't fight the beast.

Why is Kessler's timeline Beast being written off?

Considering that Kessler actually died to Cole's 7-A+ attacks no not really.

Where do you think High 6-A Beast came from?

 

[PTSOXMONKEY99]

Kessler being able to defeat Future Beast would be a major outlier, and would mess up the scaling.

We're not tossing out Future Beast, he's literally the second key on Beast's profile

 

[ByAsura]

@Duma

It's from Kessler's time line.

@PTSOXMONKEY99

Alright.

 

[DMUA]

I explained that it's not an outlier. The Beast wasn't multi continent level, and he wasn't even close, he'd just awakened for weeks to months ago. I even showed why. It's just a feat, it's not justification for anything.

So.... That comment means pretty much nothing? Why would you even bring this up?