Important Naruto Speed Revision & Lightning Release Revision

[Damage3245]

You have to do that before this could logically move forward all things considered because as it stands, that makes the statement defunct.

I intend to address them in the proper order; I just wanted to make sure people were aware of the statement first.

I myself only discovered it a day ago. What bearing it has on future revisions is a topic for discussion, not something to be dismissed out of hand.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

You have to do that before this could logically move forward all things considered because as it stands, that makes the statement defunct.

I intend to address them in the proper order; I just wanted to make sure people were aware of the statement first.

I myself only discovered it a day ago. What bearing it has on future revisions is a topic for discussion, not something to be dismissed out of hand.

Except it can be dismissed out of hand simply based on past feats. I understand your point for posting it though. Just know that until the previous feats are addressed, this statement of Supersonic Speed doesn't hold.

 

[Damage3245]

@TFO; feels like we're entirely in agreement with each other. Obviously an entire scaling system isn't going to change over night.

This statement is just one piece of the evidence that I've gathered to make future CRT's for the verse.

 

[TataHakai]

Damage unless you're planning to downgrade the verse to Supersonic speeds, the statement is irrelevant to your future CRT's

 

[TataHakai]

@Tata
You obviously did not understand what my statement was alluding to, and you are projecting biases onto Damage which he has never shown; his objections are based in evidence and rational argumentation, and he showcases a willingness to alter his stance when shown sufficient proof.

Don't impugn the validity of his argumentation as such.

Except i did, and me and damage have been talking about these issues for months unlike you, so if you don't understand the context of the entire situation then please stay quiet until you do, otherwise all your points are just Asinine

"showcasing a willingness to alter his stance based on the veracity of that evidence. "

He only altered his stance because it would mean a downgrade in speed rather than an upgrade, the same guy who was arguing that the speed of Raito varies from jutsu to jutsu now suddenly says "Oh nevermind it doesn't vary because now i can push for an downgrade as usual"

@Damage

"I believe I've been consistent that I doubt any ordinary lightning release jutsu travels at average natural lightning speed."

Yes and your main point was "Lightning jutsu don't all travel at the same speed it varies on the user" and now suddenly it all moves at the same speed, literally contradictory, there's no point in prolonging this thread as it's not going to lead to anything, it's not like we're downgrading Naruto characters to Supersonic nor is the statement usable as it's nonsense and doesn't make sense in the series

 

[Xulrev]

@Tata

You seem to presume much of others and their motivations, not a very good behavior to engage in unless you're certain of your claims: for example, you have literally no idea what you speak of when you assume what I am/am not involved in or know of. You'd do well to not come to meaningless conclusions.

Damage is a tried-and-true person whose entire history is based in analyzing new evidence and bringing it forth to discuss in a fair light. The fact that you're trying to shout down new evidence just because it doesn't fit a preconceived narrative is alarming. Let him proceed with his project and examine the evidence before trying to lead a witch hunt on his motivations.

Simply put: stop trying to make presumptions of people when you've no clue what you're talking about, please, it's all these threads turn into anymore and why nothing gets done. Stick to the evidence.

 

[AstralKing7]

Narratives can shut down things when something is consistent in the first place and this site allows that. Simple as that.

You guys keep speakingof evidence when the evidence itself is even precise. How does it compare a Kunai to ration when raiton varies as well as the fact that Damage is ignoring the fact that it got compared to fuuto further proving they each jutsu varies if a wind release jutsu can be jsut as fast a a lightning release jutsu.

Tmw Ays jutsu is ration ƒñªÔÇìÔÖ鴩ŃñªÔÇìÔÖ鴩ŃñªÔÇìÔÖé´©Å That's why this whole argument is BS. Damage wanted to try and make a downgrade for all lightning by assuming we classified them at the same speed when we didn't. This is literally wasting our time when we know they aren't the same speed.

 

[Xulrev]

Damage has not even proposed anything as of yet with that evidence. You and others simply presumed much when little was said. That's my entire point. Just accept it's a new piece of evidence to consider for now and wait. It's not terribly difficult I shouldnt wonder

 

[Omimi]

whats the meaning of having Lightning_Feats page

if u are going to ignore it

even thou naruto verse Lightning has more then 4 properties of real Lightning

u guys still act like it doesnt have any

so get ready to downgrades all verse aswell

 

[Damage3245]

AstralKing7 and TataHakai, you guys keep inventing arguments on my behalf to fight against and it is really poor conduct.

I'm not proposing that all lightning jutsu in the verse be considered the same speed.

I'd appreciate it if you guys actually waited until I suggested some changes before arguing against them.

Omimi, the crux of this is that something can display properties of lightning and be slower than lightning if there are indications that it is slower. I'll be getting into that as part of my proposals.

 

[Omimi]

i am not talking to u so ignore me

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; are you asking me to ignore you? I confess it's hard for me to interpret what you say sometimes.

 

[Omimi]

yes cuz my word was not for u but for the staff members

 

[EviLMinded358]

To be veracious, I don't understand why we should take one statement to argue against consistent exhibitions in the series, like most of the lightning jutsu have been portrayed to possess lightning properties which as defined in this wiki should qualify for lightning speed and whatever lightning cognate stuff you can match to it. I don't think we should just ignore something that has been established because of one statement.

 

[TataHakai]

We always take feats and showings over statements if statements contradict said feats

 

[Damage3245]

@EvilMinded358; possessing properties of lightning is a basis for assuming lightning speed but if there are factors indicating against lightning speed then the properties it possesses don't really matter.

Some people have claimed on here that all lightning jutsu supposedly share the same properties of lightning, but also that not all lightning jutsu should be treated as lightning speed. Therefore simply having properties of lightning isn't the only qualifier for lightning speed.

I understand what the current scaling is; but I think that the current scaling framework is wrong for numerous reasons.

Don't misunderstand me and think I'm relying on a single statement to overturn everything.

 

[AstralKing7]

We all literally said not every lightning jutsu is lightning speed.


Also what factors?? Please tell us. Everyone that was in support said that not all ration are equal. If they are like ball lightning or lightning fang they dotn meet the standards which we said. The shape is important and DontTalk has said that also before

 

[AstralKing7]

Also it doesn't matter what people claim as long as we know what's accepted. Only a couple jutsu met real lightning requirements

 

[Elizhaa]

To be veracious, I don't understand why we should take one statement to argue against consistent exhibitions in the series, like most of the lightning jutsu have been portrayed to possess lightning properties which as defined in this wiki should qualify for lightning speed and whatever lightning cognate stuff you can match to it. I don't think we should just ignore something that has been established because of one statement.

I agree. It is not because I care a lot about speed feats but for contradicting feats tends to be ignored or overrule if others statements or feats have more backing.

For example, if we are taking the supersonic statement literally as just cap out as as baseline supersonic or until hypersonic then it would be wrong. There are a lot of early feats in the verse that are HyperSonic like Naruto (Part I)'s, Gaara, Temari's, Kakashi's that disproved the statement. Canon statement can still be wrong.

I honestly think we should have a standard for Lightning Feats page like the Standards for laser determinatio for criteria to prove real lightning and opposing criteria to prove something is not real lightning.

Most critically, I think we should have overruled statement like that Standards for laser determinatio because it seems somewhat riduculous to discount all lighting feats if there is only one or few contrasting evidence to many criteria proving real lighting:

• Please note that the opposite of these criteria do not prove a beam is at lightspeed, merely that it could be, should it meet the first list of criteria. Should there be great evidence in favor of the light being real or lightspeed, comparably minor showing against it being real can be overruled.

We already use these criteria as argument before in thread anywway and it solved arguments repeating or thread going in circle since there are people that not familiar with our criteria for Lightning Feats.

 

[EviLMinded358]

@EvilMinded358; possessing properties of lightning is a basis for assuming lightning speed but if there are factors indicating against lightning speed then the properties it possesses don't really matter.

Some people have claimed on here that all lightning jutsu supposedly share the same properties of lightning, but also that not all lightning jutsu should be treated as lightning speed. Therefore simply having properties of lightning isn't the only qualifier for lightning speed.

I understand what the current scaling is; but I think that the current scaling framework is wrong for numerous reasons.

Don't misunderstand me and think I'm relying on a single statement to overturn everything.

I get what you're proposing, I get that even despite portrayals it won't compulsorily be lightning speed when there are factors contravening that, it isn't the problem here anyway as I am typing in regards to your Supersonic Lightning statement.


Don't misunderstand me, I am not trying to go against your proposal, I am just pointing that out.

 

[Damage3245]

To give an update to people, I am about halfway through going through the calcs / feats I've compiled in order to prepare for a discussion that may affect several character's speed ratings (most of these calcs / feats have nothing to do with the statement on lightning jutsu).

I should have it all ready for some time next week, depending on evaluations and other factors.

Personally speaking I think a lot of people are taking the current status quo on the verse's ratings to be gospel, when they are have varied a lot over time and have gone through several revisions already.

 

[TataHakai]

No one is saying they can't be revised

As long as they make sense within the context of the verse, that's why people are arguing against mach 1.1 lightning/wind jutsu because it makes no sense

You're free to make any type of revision you want to, people are taking the current status quo as "gospel" because we've spent like over a year to get here, but as you say it can change any time, up or down as with any verse.

 

[AstralKing7]

Tbh it shouldn't have never varied. This site at one time downplayed Naruto a lot and didn't even accept databooks. The past revisions were problems the site brought on itself not because the verse is complicated.

Then the site started using new calc methods that became consistent with portrayal in the verse. It's the site which goes through revision not Naruto. The verse currently being finished should only go through revision when their is a calc wrong or a statement wrong.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

@Damage I understand that you think there is a problem with how lightning jutsu are treated, but can you please finish one revision before you start another huge revision? The AP revision that you started that's been going on for around a month. I would very much appreciate it if you could finish one revision before you start another one. Currently we are stuck waiting for your thread to finish before we can continue with a revision that was in the works for quite a long time.

 

[AstralKing7]

Staff literally told him to stop making so many revisions right after another...

 

[Damage3245]

@Wrath of Itachi; the speed revision I will be proposing is tied to the current discussion of lightning jutsu.

The AP revision has been delayed due to participation of few calc group members, not myself.

@AstralKing7; When was this?

I could delay the speed revision a while longer if need be. It's not like there's a rush for it.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

@Wrath of Itachi; the speed revision I will be proposing is tied to the current discussion of lightning jutsu.

The AP revision has been delayed due to participation of few calc group members, not myself.

@AstralKing7; When was this?

I could delay the speed revision a while longer if need be. It's not like there's a rush for it.

Then you should hold off on any revisions until said threads gets finished.

 

[Xulrev]

No real need to wait for the other threads, Wrath. It's not something actively taking up time since it's waiting on other persons to simply comment.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

All of these threads require staff approval. When you flood them with threads they will ignore them. That's what's going on right now. There are so many Naruto threads and calcs, some members post on their walls that they want nothing to do with Naruto.

 

[Omimi]

also your every calc is A BIG NO

u are using this to prove that 1.1 mach lightning (It's speed was pretty much equal to that of a wind or lightning release.))

pretty much meas nearly, almost, just about, about, more or less, practically, virtually, all but, as good as, next to, close to, near, nigh on, not far from, not far off, to all intents and purposes,


so it doesn't mean equal

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; once again you fail to realize that I haven't actually proposed that every wind or lightning release jutsu is Mach 1.1.

No speed changes have been proposed yet.

Your comment is appreciated but your tone is not.

Also, while you are absolutely correct that "pretty much equal" =/= "equal", I don't see what major revelation that is supposed to be.

 

[AstralKing7]

@Wrath of Itachi; the speed revision I will be proposing is tied to the current discussion of lightning jutsu.

The AP revision has been delayed due to participation of few calc group members, not myself.

@AstralKing7; When was this?

I could delay the speed revision a while longer if need be. It's not like there's a rush for it.

Dude u literally responded to them when they told you that when u kept making back to back Naruto revisions a month ago ƒñ¿ you should remember when

 

[Xulrev]

All of these threads require staff approval. When you flood them with threads they will ignore them. That's what's going on right now. There are so many Naruto threads and calcs, some members post on their walls that they want nothing to do with Naruto.

That's the opposite of Damage's fault; any time Damage has taken the time to collect information and compile it into a thread, suddenly 4 or 5 other people start flooding the calc group with the same calc done 3 different ways or with rebuttal CRTs or with DMs to staff to revert changes etc etc.

Blaming Damage for the retaliatory acts of others seems a bit suspect, especially when he's stated his intentions and they are well-known and he is pretty understanding and polite about it.

Simply put: stop trying to curtail his efforts to be more accurate and tell the others who inundate the various forums with Naruto stuff to cease those acts.

 

[AstralKing7]

I agree WOI. We needed a staff thread because there were too many threads in the first place

 

[Damage3245]

@AstralKing7; a month can feel like a long time, hahaha. Fair enough though, I will keep the speed revisions in reserve for a while longer.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

@Xulrev Damage specifically asked Ant to halt all Naruto AP threads until after his thread has been completed.

 

[Damage3245]

@Xulrev Damage specifically asked Ant to halt all Naruto AP threads until after his thread has been completed.

I believe that was only for high tier / top tier characters.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Yes, and the feats we were going to aplly would affect them.

 

[Omimi]

once again you fail to realize that

• no i did not fail to realize anything

I haven't actually proposed that every wind or lightning release jutsu is Mach 1.1.

• yet u are making all calc based on 1.1 mach

Your comment is appreciated but your tone is not.

• my tone is fine

also, while you are absolutely correct that "pretty much equal" =/= "equal", I don't see what major revelation that is supposed to be.

• u are basing it as equal in your calc
• which is wrong
• novel says supersonic kunai is 'nearly, almost, just about, about, practically, virtually, all but, as good as, , close to, near, nigh on, not far from wind and lightning release
• so u cant use this anyway cuz we dont know the actual speed of wind and lightning release
• novel never state that wind and lightning speed = supersonic
• 1.1 mach is for only kunai speed
• so it can be only used for kunai speed

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi;

• novel says supersonic kunai is 'nearly, almost, just about, about, practically, virtually, all but, as good as, , close to, near, nigh on, not far from wind and lightning release
• so u cant use this anyway cuz we dont know the actual speed of wind and lightning release

There are times when we don't know the exact figure for something which is why we make deductions and reasonable assumptions.

If I were calcing a feat for someone dodging a bullet, and the statement attached to the bullet was "It was almost/nearly/just about as fast as an AK-47 bullet" then assuming the bullet they dodged to be comparable to an AK-47 bullet seems like a reasonable assumption.