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Important Naruto Speed Revision & Lightning Release Revision

The Causality said:
Ehh what a thread...
Anyway, if a single statement said that something is slower than many other feats and calcs from a verse, he isn't counted as an evidence but more as an inconsistency.
Click to expand...
You have a valid point. However I think many of the current feats are inaccurate and therefore under a different scaling the statement would be fine.

Obviously some people prefer the current scaling, which is fine, but nothing is set in stone.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
@Jvando

How on earth does this counter the only statement in existence from Naruto that gives us the speed of lightning style in general?

Theyre 2 separate things, we learn the speed of the lightning style and nowhere does it say that's one armed Gaara is slower or anything. It just says his auto defenses took care of it while he was carrying a girl.

To say the speed statement is inaccurate you need another statement regarding the speed of raiton.
Click to expand...
No dude, they aren't mutually exclusive.

The speed of the kunai was being directly related to Gaara's inability to react on time to the point where he needed his auto defenses.

It's either the speed is wrong or the speed is right, there isn't any in between. If you want to say it's right, however, then now we have an inconsistency since Gaara could barely react to it which contradicts just about ever feat in the story and a bunch of calcs.

Why are people acting like inconsistencies in verses are a new thing or should even be taken seriously? It's simply a statement that makes no sense within the context of the story and is thus wrong and can be ignored like we do for literally every other verse that shows inconsistencies.
 
@Jvando, or the speed is right but Gaara's reactions are wrong?
 
Ehh I'll let damage make his thread or whatever, as far as I'm concerned this is the only statement telling us how fast Raiton is since everyone else refuses to post any of them ofc they exist.
 
Damage3245 said:
You have a valid point. However I think many of the current feats are inaccurate and therefore under a different scaling the statement would be fine.

Obviously some people prefer the current scaling, which is fine, but nothing is set in stone.
Click to expand...
I obviously talk about general case, not really Naruto, i honestly don't mind if the current scaling is valid or not, i've just said just how we treat this kind of stuff overall.

Truly sorry but i don't want to get involved into naruto threads so sorry if i didn't evaluated the whole thing.
 
I obviously talk about general case, not really Naruto, i honestly don't mind if the current scaling is valid or not, i've just said just how we treat this kind of stuff overall.

Truly sorry but i don't want to get involved into naruto threads so sorry if i didn't evaluated the whole thing.

I would say this should fall under a case of "the statement belies an incorrect assessment we have based said calcs on", if the idea that Damage is proposing were to be accepted, which would indeed put the statement above the calcs in the first place.

Like, I wanna honestly ask, how many of the Naruto Speed Calcs or relative supporting feats for speed don't rely on lightning?
 
@LSir I mainly talk about case where for exemple, in Nanatsu no Taizai which countains a bunch of speed feats from lightnings, gallan ect, there is an attacks which it's stated to move at the speed of sound and is able to hit Meliodas

In this case the statement fall under the Inconsistency.
 
Bro u guys do know if lightning meets most or all of the requirements we consider it real lightning. You guys do know that right? It's literally the same people from the other threads where it got accepted and now it's getting annoying
 
And this inability to think about the subject for a moment instead of just going "but requirements bro" every single time is just as annoying. Our guidelines aren't perfect and impossible to circumvent, they never have been and they never will. It's the exact same reason why this is being discussed, instead of just making a CRT asking for a straight downgrade.

We just had this same issue when Kukui made a thread about our light speed standards, and it was agreed mostly that even if light bends, as an example of the kind of thing we used to straight shot down proposals, it isn't disproven straight away. It just means you need even more proof to make it certain. This here is the very same, just because lightning vhecks out many of the criteria for lightning (though I remember people asking for proof of the other criterias and none being shown...) if there's obviously contradicting statements and events, we look into them. That's it, is that easy. You are free to not participate if you don't wanna provide much more than "but our guidelines bro!".
 
Yeah Lsir we literally showed all of the proof and I took out so much time to go and get the proof for the requirements. The fact that u dotn remember means you ether didn't try to read the arguments, u weren't there or u just don't know what your talking about because I know for a fact that me and worker showed the proof


Also currently our guidelines accept lightning as being real as long as it meets the requirements and if anyone wants more than that all u have to do is simply make a crt for the wiki and not complain about it when a verse uses the requirements and rules for an upgrade.
 
I lived to see the day when they would argue that the Raitons are supersonic, when they are constantly used against characters (ignoring everything shown in part 2 of the manga), at least High Hypersonics and with various natural lightning characteristics.

Looks like I'm seeing YT!
 
@Astral I saw people asking for proof of the other criterias of lightning, nothing was posted. Something to contest the contradictory information being brought up, "lightning acts like lightning and it follows the criteria!". Orange brings up literal proof Supersonic seems to be treated universally as capping at Mach 5, I see no reply to that. And on and on we keep on going as I see more people accusing Damage of some imagined bias just for making this.

Come on, link me up, any proof if that's totally being said before. Shut me up with something factual, I am getting tired of "you obviously didn't read the replies bro", actually prove the obvious proof is obviously there. You have time to reply and you obviously read the thread it seems, so you should know where it is and find it way faster than me.

@MostPowerfull This is the same verse where Fire and Rocks and Wind is used on those same High Hypersonic characters. Things that shouldn't move so fast/so slow are moving so fast/so slow? Damn, that sounds like fiction!

I am getting even more annoyed at the "supersonic Gaara" thing, like Damage didn't just say a good few times no speed change proposals were ever made, just settling the issue of Raiton.


Can't a thread discussing Naruto have some flexibility for Christ's sake? Why is this gotta be so hard everytime?
 
Jvando said:
I will list some features shown by Raiton, to help in understanding (Thanks to @MostPowerfull for finding these scans)
Click to expand...
Raiton Properties

Raiton has been shown several times to be able to paralyze, numb and contract the muscles / body of the target:

https://i8.**********.com/naruto/308/naruto-1568426.jpg https://i2.**********.com/naruto/308/naruto-1568428.jpg https://i10.**********.com/naruto/308/naruto-1568438.jpg https://i4.**********.com/naruto/412/naruto-8328.jpg https://www.***********.net/naruto/463/8

Raiton proved to be conductive to water, metal and other:
https://i2.**********.com/naruto/308/naruto-1568430.jpg https://i7.**********.com/naruto/473/naruto-1008948.jpg https://i1.**********.com/naruto/461/naruto-712059.jpg https://i1.**********.com/naruto/411/naruto-8319.jpg https://i4.**********.com/naruto/526/naruto-1925307.jpg

It has showed electrolysis, as Sarada said against the Kiba user:
https://youtu.be/dF0wFyuumBI?t=272

It is said that the natural weakness of the Raiton are insulators of electricity, such as rubber and wind (This is a bonus and not part of the criteria)
https://www.quora.com/Is-air-an-electrical- insulator https://www.***********.net/naruto/333/15 https://i10.**********.com/naruto/554/naruto-2620365.jpg https://i2.**********.com/naruto/554/naruto-2620367.jpg https://i7.**********.com/naruto/555/naruto-2633535.jpg https://i7.**********.com/naruto/555/naruto-2633537.jpg

Powerful enough to kill several White Zetsus, who are powerful as fooder ninjas (Building to City Block Level):
https://i4.**********.com/naruto/526/naruto-1925307.jpg https://i10.**********.com/naruto/526/naruto-1925309.jpg

Sasuke is able to manipulate real eletricity with a Chidori, controlling it to reach a specific target
https://i1.**********.com/naruto/391/naruto-7890.jpg https://i1.**********.com/naruto/391/naruto-7891.jpg As seen, Raiton follows 4 out of 7 criteria, and still has two that are not part of the criterion, but is favorable to its truthfulness as true."

In conclusion:
- Raiton is shown to have 4 out of the 7 acceptable criteria in this wiki - It had enough power to back up its claim seeing as it can damage individuals with 7-C Durability
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
We just had this same issue when Kukui made a thread about our light speed standards, and it was agreed mostly that even if light bends, as an example of the kind of thing we used to straight shot down proposals, it isn't disproven straight away. It just means you need even more proof to make it certain.
Click to expand...
Dont mention my name in this please. Not saying your wrong, I just dont want any part of this discussion, especially because of where its now headed.

Thats all im going to say here.
 
@Lsir

I did not understand your text very well, being honest! There is nothing to indicate that Raiton is of such speed, apart from a statement that goes against not only Part 2, but even Part 1 of the manga and all its context and therefore does not solve anything of Raiton. Add all the natural features that Raiton has, and that statement is even more meaningless. . Indirectly, this nonsense will downgraded several feats.

I think that's what I meant, if you got a misunderstanding. Anyway, I'm leaving this post, because it will become cancer soon.
 
It's quite simple and nobody has yet to refute my position. The Preposition of the Kunai being Supersonic in speed is debunked through the feats. You cannot accept the statement.

@Damage, if you believe that the calcs are wrong for speed, that's fine but until you can get them revised or mods to acknowledge that they need fixing, this does not stand.
 
Okay, I got lost on the thread due to a heavy workload. But I've been reading some details here and there. I disagree with using a random "Supersonic" statement just to hammer in the ground that a kunai being launched was only Supersonic. I was thankfully given summarized details from another user privately. I'm in very much in agreement with Tatahakai here.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
I think that Naruto Lightning has enough properties that prove it is real lightning and I don't get why this discussion is held so often in spite of past thread conclusions.
Click to expand...
I think there should be a discussion rule about the lightning in Naruto.
 
Wasn't even early series Kakashi stated to be capable of cutting a natural lightning bolt in half with his Chidori? That kind of showcases Naruto characters being pretty consistent as comparable to real lightning. I also agree and gave M3X permission to make a staff only thread regarding a new discussion rule.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
I think that Naruto Lightning has enough properties that prove it is real lightning and I don't get why this discussion is held so often in spite of past thread conclusions.
Click to expand...
What Damage posted isn't about what's on the properies of lightning list, it's about an in verse statement regarding the speed of raiton style.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Wasn't even early series Kakashi stated to be capable of cutting a natural lightning bolt in half with his Chidori? That kind of showcases Naruto characters being pretty consistent as comparable to real lightning. I also agree and gave M3X permission to make a staff only thread regarding a new discussion rule.
Click to expand...
That is a feat that currently has no calc.

Ratings for an entire verse aren't determined off of a single statement, but a piece of proposed evidence needs to actually be taken into consideration instead of being dismissed out of hand because the current scaling disagrees with it.

I think a new discussion rule is premature as there are plenty of people who don't have a problem with the statement inherently.

Letting a group of core Naruto supporters make a discussion rule because they don't like something that would imply future downgrades is a bad precedent.

I don't know who have you summarized details, but I'm concerned that whoever it was might have been biased.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
I think that Naruto Lightning has enough properties that prove it is real lightning and I don't get why this discussion is held so often in spite of past thread conclusions.
Click to expand...
A major point of this thread is that in spite of lightning release jutsu possessing some properties of lightning that there is evidence suggesting that it does not actually travel at lightning speed.

There have been no "conclusions" about this in the past, just disagreements.
 
There's no calc simply because it was a lore statement mentioned by Gai. However, Kakashi would need to have reactions and combat speed comparable to a lightning bolt to actively cut a lightning bolt in half. Given that he would have to actively strike the lightning bolt before it hits the ground. It was agreed that the "Supersonic" statement was just another way to say it was faster than sound and not specific to how much faster. Plus, there have literally been thousands of posts discussing this, so Naruto characters having speeds comparable to real lightning isn't a stretch at all.
 
@DDM, I don't have a lot of time to post here before work, but I believe I've seen arguments that Kakashi doesn't actually need lightning speed reactions to do that. I will try to find them.

There has been a huge amount of discussion, but that's because there are controversial implications behind it and lots of people on both sides. I'm still in the middle of creating calcs and verifying old calcs, so I haven't actually proposed any speed changes yet.

I think I ought to at least be given the chance to make a CRT on proposed changes before it gets shut down.

If the proposed changes aren't accepted after that, then I'll accept that result.
 
@DDM

However, Kakashi would need to have reactions and combat speed comparable to a lightning bolt to actively cut a lightning bolt in half.

Nothing to do with what Damage has posted, no one is saying they're supersonic well at least not anyone relevant. Were strictly talking about the stated speed of raiton here where 0 statements exist that contradict it as far as I know besides it being slower than natural lightning which makes sense here.

"It was agreed that the "Supersonic" statement was just another way to say it was faster than sound and not specific to how much faster"

Where? statements use baseline speed unless shown otherwise so it being maybe faster doesn't mean much here in a quantifable way.

Plus, there have literally been thousands of posts discussing this

Again nothing to do with the list of lightning traits that people have spoken about which Wokistan agrees is shaky due to electricity having varied speed. Now there is an in verse statement supprting another point of view which is what this is about.

so Naruto characters having speeds comparable to real lightning isn't a stretch at all.

Who said it's a stretch? Itachi reacted to natural lightning already and Kakashi maybe cut a bolt of lightning in half earlier in the series.
 
Kunai being Supersonic makes no sense when even back in Pt. 1, Characters are beyond such speed, casually at that. Again, feats disprove the preposition of Supersonic speeds here.

Nobody is denying that the Kunai's speed is not what Raiton Speed is, but again, that speed being Supersonic is not supported in verse and actually goes against the feats.
 
@TFO, you should know that I have proposals to make for Part 1 Naruto speed as well.

But right now this isn't the thread for them.
 
lol

how are u going disagree calc and statement

this naruto also has mach 5 statement so i doubt u can u anything

u disagree mean nothing over mangafact
 
@Omimi, I plan on making a CRT for Part 1 speed ratings soon, and I'll hopefully be able to address your concerns there.

Is that okay?
 
Damage3245 said:
@TFO, you should know that I have proposals to make for Part 1 Naruto speed as well.
But right now this isn't the thread for them.
Click to expand...
You have to do that before this could logically move forward all things considered because as it stands, that makes the statement defunct.
 
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