Immeasurable speed blazblue downgrade

[Qawsedf234]

Considering Izanami's going to alternate timelines with this

Well that's the hang up. Alternate timelines isn't time travel, its just moving to another universe.

Whether its in same world or towards different world from current one shouldn't matter.

See above. It matters because like the scans I showed, the beings were all sown to move backwards for a given temporal structure. They weren't moving sideways to something adjacent.

 

[Theglassman12]

Isn't moving to another timeline moving to a different axis in time though?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

See above. It matters because like the scans I showed, the beings were all sown to move backwards for a given temporal structure. They weren't moving sideways to something adjacent.

If you move from present point of your own timeline to a past or future point in another timeline, then it is already qualifiable for immeasurable speed. Additional vector of travel perpendicular to time shouldn't disqualify speed if your primary travel vector already travel through time.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I still agree with Glass and Gilver

Blazblue only loses to DMC when it comes to being Immeasurable by the very definition of it

 

[Qawsedf234]

Isn't moving to another timeline moving to a different axis in time though?

Its just moving to another universe, which wouldn't require crossing a temporal axis in most cases.

If you move from present point of your own timeline to a past or future point in another timeline

But that's what I'm asking. Are they travelling to another separate universe or are they travelling into the past or future of the universe they're presently in.

They need to actually move forward or backwards in time in one universe to get Immeasurable. Moving to an alternate reality just isn't time travel.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

But that's what I'm asking. Are they travelling to another separate universe or are they travelling into the past or future of the universe they're presently in.

They are doing both.

Terumi is moving back in time to alternate realities given Takamagahara always tries to control every possibility but he just hops to a new one every time he's done observing it.

 

[Qawsedf234]

They are doing both.

I made a MS Paint drawing, just tell me or edit and show me what they're doing

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I made a MS Paint drawing, just tell me or edit and show me what they're doing

Both A and D depending who does it and and for what.

Also why is D not time travel? Its just time travel + dimensional travel.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Also why is D not time travel?

You'd have to prove the universes operate on the same temporal dimension, so that moving to an adjacent universe would involve crossing the time axis as well.

If you have scans for A and have a list for people who scale to it, assuming its not an outlier, then yes it would be immeasurable speed.

 

[Fixxed]

Its just moving to another universe, which wouldn't require crossing a temporal axis in most cases.

Yeah, it only gives dimensional travel

But that's what I'm asking. Are they travelling to another separate universe or are they travelling into the past or future of the universe they're presently in.

Same with me

@Fixxed skip to 10:40, it's a jokey recap but the general information is accurate.

From what I got from that explanation, Ragna only did time travel

 

[Theglassman12]

@Qawsedf234 its the entire plot of calamity trigger that’s the scan, the Black Beast fall into a cauldron which is a gateway, and they move back in time 100 years to start the dark war, and more than half the roster can do this feat by the end of the series so it’s not really an outlier.

@Fixxed by going back in time through the Boundary. They literally move back in time every single reset.

 

[Qawsedf234]

its the entire plot of calamity trigger that’s the scan

I mean, that's not a scan. A screenshot of someone saying "X did Y" is a scan.

Black Beast fall into a cauldron which is a gateway, and they move back in time 100 years to start the dark war,

I mean, if they fell into something which acted as a gateway that doesn't really imply that they're immeasurable in base.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

You'd have to prove the universes operate on the same temporal dimension, so that moving to an adjacent universe would involve crossing the time axis as well.

Thats just counterintuitive and wrong.
This shouldn't be a limiting factor at all.
And you do realise this is not possible for verses where realms are separate space-times. Your requirement only applies to case like where cosmology is quilted multiverse.

Also in principle barring something from qualifying as time travel just because of additional movement which corresponds with dimensional travel is....just so backwards!!
By that logic time travel in Dragon Ball should just be named as Dimensional Travel?? Everytime Trunks uses time machine it should be named as Dimensional Machine?

Also in case of BlazBlue, Boundry is a higher dimensional structure with a temporal element to it. It already transcends timelines. So Boundry is a 2nd temporal dimension. So physical movement through it should be Immeasurable speed by default.

 

[Qawsedf234]

And you do realise this is not possible for verses where realms are separate space-times

Yes, which is why it wouldn't be immeasurable in those universes. Like going from Earth 616 to Earth 398 or Earth 928 wouldn't be time travel, but going to alternate universes that happen to be in different points of time.

By that logic time travel in Dragon Ball should just be named as Dimensional Travel??

Only if Trunks used it to go from Universe 7 to another Universe. In series he moves physically backwards to a different time, which is why that's time travel. Material explaining time travel also makes it clear that he did indeed move physically backwards in time.

physical movement through it should be Immeasurable speed by default.

They would be Immeasurable moving through it I guess.

I can see an argument that its more of what plane they're on than the characters themselves. That's probably redundant though.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Qawsedf234 the scan in the OP has an example of what happened, the dude goes through time into the future of the same world.

also not really when they merge into a being that becomes an out of control being that moves through time due to it being the same fate. And the fact that the characters who’s stated to move through time transcend beyond time and space.

 

[Loyd]

I'm confused on how we sort speed If some random named ben with peak human speed walked thru a gate to <> that granted him immeasurable speed would he retain the latter rating or is he only immeasurable in that location?

like at least peak human, immeasurable at <> ?

 

[Qawsedf234]

@Qawsedf234 the scan in the OP has an example of what happened, the dude goes through time into the future of the same world.

That's a start, but I meant something more clear about him moving through time like this

And the fact that the characters who’s stated to move through time transcend beyond time and space.

Transcending time and space are supporting pieces of evidence for Immeasurable.

I;m confused how we sort speed If some random named ben with peak human speed walked thru a gate to <> that granted him immeasurable speed would he retain the latter rating or is he only immeasurable in that location?

like at least peak human, immeasurable at <> ?

I mean, that was my main question. If its only the realm that lets them time travel then they would likely just need a separate rating or note about their cosmology allowing it.

Though I guess it may also be pedantic since like, it would be a realm they could presumably access whenever.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Yes, which is why it wouldn't be immeasurable in those universes. Like going from Earth 616 to Earth 398 or Earth 928 wouldn't be time travel, but going to alternate universes that happen to be in different points of time.

Only if Trunks used it to go from Universe 7 to another Universe. In series he moves physically backwards to a different time, which is why that's time travel. Material explaining time travel also makes it clear that

Okay I understand the finer details now.
Movement inside the same temporaral dimension is important according to you. Moving in "emptiness" between 2 temporal dimensions doesn't matter.

Well my only complaint is it shouldn't matter whether...
A) You are moving backwards or forwards inside timestream
B)You are moving backwards and forwards parallel to timestream outside of it.

Both should equally qualify for timetravel/immeasurable speed.
This is first time I am hearing such a rule, if this really is the case then it needs changing or a proper explanation is need to justify why one case qualifies but other doesn't

 

[Qawsedf234]

This is first time I am hearing such a rule

Its not a rule, its just how I'm interpreting the page. If it was a rule I'd just use the rule.

Well my only complaint is it shouldn't matter whether...

In my view moving in a void or space between two timelines is just dimensional travel without further specification, which is a rule:

Speed isn't defined by any number of spatial dimensions but simply distance over time. Meaning that it is possible for 1-dimensional characters to be faster than those who cover many dimensions. And the distance between two timelines is defined as the 5th dimension (Or a 4th spatial dimension) that separates two or more universes. Said distance is often unknown as it could be anywhere between much smaller than the Universal radius and infinite. But such details are only known to those who can travel through additional spatial dimensions. For that reason, crossing Universes is unquantifiable for speed unless details are specifically stated.

To me, in order for it to be Immeasurable you need to show that both universes operate under the same time axis. But from what I'm getting from Glass someone already travelled backwards in one universe so it doesn't matter than much.

 

[Fixxed]

@Fixxed by going back in time through the Boundary. They literally move back in time every single reset.

And and that is what is called time travel

Time Travel is the ability to travel to different points in the past or future

 

[Theglassman12]

@Fixxed not an ability when it’s done by movement though.

@Qawsedf234 its literally just showcases of them going back and forward in time. She’s in the past and moves back to the present alongside the guy next to her.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

In my view moving in a void or space between two timelines is just dimensional travel without further specification, which is a rule:

The rule that you quoted is about straight travel between timelines, without any movement parallel to time. Obviously its mentioning conventional dimensional travel between timelines. Even if it explicitly doesn't differentiate between our case and conventional dimensional travel, the intent is obvious. Current rule doesn't take into account this type of movement.

We need a 2nd paragraph to explain timetravel through area between 2 timelines. I say it should be Immeasurable , you say it shouldn't be.
Either way it turns out we need explanation for this.

 

[Fixxed]

@Fixxed not an ability when it’s done by movement though

with only this small evidence, very far to get immeasurable speed. due to lack of context

 

[Theglassman12]

@Fixxed Are you paying any attention to what I’ve been saying? Because I’ve given more context than that one scene.

 

[Megaraptor149]

@Fixxed Are you paying any attention to what I’ve been saying? Because I’ve given more context than that one scene.

Nah again, the scan evidence above shown by fixxed shows more time travel than immesureable bacause it shows more going to the past, not the scan that shows above that they use sheer speed movement to go back in time.

Anyway better you show scan proof immeasurble more than only your explanation

 

[Fixxed]

@Fixxed Are you paying any attention to what I’ve been saying? Because I’ve given more context than that one scene.

If you just give an explanation without any scans, then I'll ignore it sorry

 

[Theglassman12]

Read all the posts I’ve posted that has scans. If you’re going to ignore my posts then I don’t see why I should take you seriously here.

 

[Fixxed]

Read all the posts I’ve posted that has scans. If you’re going to ignore my posts then I don’t see why I should take you seriously here.

That because your explanation have different meaning with the scans. like Ragna's example, he goes to the past and you claim immeasurable speed. but scans define more if it's just time travel, and going to a different dimension through the boundary is also dimensional travel like the scans you give yourself

 

[Theglassman12]

The scan you're using is a general story synopsis from a guy who's using layman's terms to describe the plot. You asked for a scan on it and I told you it's the entire story of the first game in a nutshell. If you seriously think that's a legit scan to use to counter immeasurable speed then I'm not taking anything you say seriously since it seems pretty obvious you're trying to fish for an excuse to remove immeasurable speed instead of actually wanting context.

 

[Megaraptor149]

Read all the posts I’ve posted that has scans. If you’re going to ignore my posts then I don’t see why I should take you seriously here.

because most of the feats you show are more about dimensional travel or time travel than immeasurable speed

 

[Theglassman12]

And once again you fail to understand how dimensional travel remotely works, or blatantly ignore everything else I've posted.

 

[Fixxed]

. You asked for a scan on it and I told you it's the entire story of the first game in a nutshell

Then i ask you to give a link from YouTube, and you give me this link .and from that explanation it also strengthens the evidence that it's just time travel

And once again you fail to understand how dimensional travel remotely works

Explain it.

 

[Theglassman12]

A link from youtube that just explains the general plot of calamity trigger, not the specific mechanics of the verse. I can't believe I have to explain something so basic to you.

Also it's not dimensional travel because that implies the characters are able to teleport to the realm easily or open a portal there, something that the majority of characters don't have to begin with and have to go through a gate to reach the boundary

Read this comment again and stop ignoring my posts for once. Or else I'm not taking anything you say seriously.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Immeasurable speed characters wouldn't need some special dimensions to travel through time in the first place. All Blazblue characters should already be faster than infinite speed if that's the case and clearly, they aren't. They are relying on a unique Dimension where all timelines meat up to "Transcend Space and Time" and "Move through time"

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

That's a complete misrepresentation of whats happening.

 

[Hasty12345]

I still agree with the removal of immeasurable speed.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

That's a complete misrepresentation of whats happening.

Nether Portal was a bad example, but everything else I said isn't. They literally cant get their Immeasurable Speed without entering a specific dimension.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Nether Portal was a bad example, but everything else I said isn't. They literally cant get their Immeasurable Speed without entering a specific dimension.

Did you miss part where Boundry is explained to be working like a higher temporal dimension??
Being able to transcend ones timeline and access boundry and move through it is textbook case of immeasurable speed.

 

[Fixxed]

I don't know if this explanation is valid or not, because someone with a strong will is able to walk on the boundary

-The Boundary is where most who came into contact received their abilities, which is a side effect of receiving vast amount of information from the said place. Jūbei described falling into the Boundary as a fate worse than death, as it felt like not only losing everything one ever was, but also everything one could ever be; in a sense, it takes away one’s past and future.[1] Only those with an exceptionally strong will and spirit can travel through the Boundary and remain intact

-The Boundary can be compared to the parallel universe. It appears as an infinite dark empty space that is illuminated by anything living that enters it. Located inside the Boundary is the Blue, and it is described as being the true power of the Boundary itself

Sc: Blazblue fandom

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Did you miss part where Boundry is explained to be working like a higher temporal dimension??
Being able to transcend ones timeline and access boundry and move through it is textbook case of immeasurable speed.

It would still depend on how they're accessing it. Are they teleporting there? Use a portal? Or do they run there? And if they didn't have access to the boundary would they still be able to move as Immeasurable Speeds? Because the Boundary isn't time itself or the physical embodiment of it. It's just a place where time meets up.