• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Immeasurable speed Alien X and Paradox

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hellformer

Hellformer

116
75
Despite Alien X getting upgraded to tier 1-B, his speed is downplayed to MFTL+ for no reason so here are some good arguments for immeasurable speed Alien X.
1)Here professor paradox states that he has spent a dozen lifetime criss crossing the time stream
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...0e998817c8a40fb2a0be5ce2eb89191dd9dc09b7a19b&
And since the celestial sapiens have been shown superior to them hence should be faster or atleast relative to paradox
2) Professor paradox exists outside of time:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...4fdf3f5f40ff059155e6af18f16c07e6e0d65eb8e2be&
That means he is unbound by the flow of linear time hence should have immeasurable speed just like how superboy prime is given that speed tier due to the same reason:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...7273f10f4bd9bdfaa45523d3d37832594a979026b077&
3) The time beasts and time bikes have shown to travel beyond linear time in omniverse and again paradox and celestial sapiens exist outside of it

Conclusion :
Paradox and Alien X should have immeasurable speed
 
1. time travel/dimensional travel, also he said crisscrossing, which means making a pattern of a place, aka mapping it out, this means he was studying the time stream's structure while travelling through time and space, it has nothing to do with movement speed

2. existing outside of time is not a speed feat, superboy prime's rating comes from also being a sentient timeline, not just existing outside of time, also his justification is probably outdated

3. existing outside of time does not connect you at all to someone time travelling, and they aren't moving "beyond linear time", just time travelling
 
Well no here's the definition for immeasurable speed :
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...d7c407d73a4ea802417896c1ea139804edb525f13109&
Immeasurable speed : (Movement unbound from the flow of linear time, which cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined, the speed formula cannot be applied.
Then the time beasts and time bikes have shown to travel between the timelines and professor paradox moves unbound by it and same for celestial sapiens. This is the same justification for superboy prime and its not my burden if it's outdated unless and until it is removed. So your argument is invalid.
"They aren't moving beyond linear but they are time travelling"
I can't take you seriously bruh
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...ffc6d392bca75d3705493a63915035334aa279f53eaf&

Thelastmlg said:
1. time travel/dimensional travel, also he said crisscrossing, which means making a pattern of a place, aka mapping it out, this means he was studying the time stream's structure while travelling through time and space, it has nothing to do with movement speed

2. existing outside of time is not a speed feat, superboy prime's rating comes from also being a sentient timeline, not just existing outside of time, also his justification is probably outdated

3. existing outside of time does not connect you at all to someone time travelling, and they aren't moving "beyond linear time", just time travelling
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Thelastmlg said:
1. time travel/dimensional travel, also he said crisscrossing, which means making a pattern of a place, aka mapping it out, this means he was studying the time stream's structure while travelling through time and space, it has nothing to do with movement speed

2. existing outside of time is not a speed feat, superboy prime's rating comes from also being a sentient timeline, not just existing outside of time, also his justification is probably outdated

3. existing outside of time does not connect you at all to someone time travelling, and they aren't moving "beyond linear time", just time travelling
Click to expand...
Agreed
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
also wouldnt any movement through time here or whatever be strictly with things like technology/vehicles
Click to expand...
Well ben and Maltruant by themselves aren't fast enough to achieve this speed. So Maltruant does this through time beasts and Ben does this with time bikes.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Agreed
Click to expand...
I pinged you on a CRT 3 days ago, dunno if you received it or not.
Thelastmlg said:
1. time travel/dimensional travel, also he said crisscrossing, which means making a pattern of a place, aka mapping it out, this means he was studying the time stream's structure while travelling through time and space, it has nothing to do with movement speed

2. existing outside of time is not a speed feat, superboy prime's rating comes from also being a sentient timeline, not just existing outside of time, also his justification is probably outdated

3. existing outside of time does not connect you at all to someone time travelling, and they aren't moving "beyond linear time", just time travelling
Click to expand...
Ditto.
 
Atleast a "possible" rating should be given, otherwise it makes no sense that the god tiers of the verse are literally infinitely slower than a literal who (pun intended)
Edit: Bootleg dr who isn't immeasurable anymore, put me in neutral
 
Hellformer said:
snip
Click to expand...
you didn't debunk anything i said

Well no here's the definition for immeasurable speed

buddy i know what immesurable speed is, existing outside of time has always been brought up as a feat for it and rejected because, again, it has nothing to do with movement or speed without further context

Then the time beasts and time bikes have shown to travel between the timelines

which doesn't prove that they are that fast, it is only dimensional and time travel

professor paradox moves unbound by it and same for celestial sapiens

they don't move unbound by it, they just exist outside of their effects, professor paradox treats his ability to move through time and space as an ability he learned by studying the spacetime continumn, not speed:

"I now have total understanding of the space-time continuum, allowing me to travel anywhere and anywhen I want, within reason."

celestialsapiens are in the same boat, nothing about their independence over time affecting their movements

This is the same justification for superboy prime and its not my burden if it's outdated unless and until it is removed. So your argument is invalid.

"i don't care if the justification is bad, it is on the page so i'll use it" hilarious whataboutism, you know what whataboutism does in situations like this? gets the profile you are using altered, instead of strengthing your argument, so best case scenario superboy prime gets downgrade/given a better justification and my argument continues being right

They aren't moving beyond linear but they are time travelling"
I can't take you seriously bruh

you basically just put there that time travelling = moving beyond linear time, and yes, that's true, but you are supposed to take the context of what i'm talking about, which is normal movement and not activacted abilities

time travel is moving beyond linear time by actively doing so with your ability, immensurable speed is moving beyond linear time by physically moving there like a normal movement

the beasts and bikes move a distance away before dissapearing in a flash of energy and then moving inside of the time stream, meaning they activacted their time travel by teleporting into the time stream in order to travel through time, this is not movement, this is them just activacting their abilities

professor paradox either moves out of sight, into cover or, as the very clip you showed, opens a portal to go somewhere, and i'm pretty sure sometimes a flash of blue light too, pretty much showing it is an active ability

and unless i'm missing something, i don't remember celestialsapiens ever moving through spacetime, let alone through pure movement speed
 
Well, only thing I'd give immeasurable speed in the verse would be time cycle, since it shows space-time related haxes not because of any "ability" but "only purely through speed", in all instances of it ever shown in the Omniverse. Including deaging time beast, knowing future, etc. so timebeast egg powered time cycle would be that but idt Alien X or any other being has evidence to scale to it unless I've ignored smth.

Do time cycle have profile btw?
 
Reiner04 said:
Well, only thing I'd give immeasurable speed in the verse would be time cycle, since it shows space-time related haxes not because of any "ability" but "only purely through speed", in all instances of it ever shown in the Omniverse. Including deaging time beast, knowing future, etc. so timebeast egg powered time cycle would be that but idt Alien X or any other being has evidence to scale to it unless I've ignored smth.

Do time cycle have profile btw?
Click to expand...
None of those necessarily mean immeasurable either.

Reiner04 said:
Ah well, ig time beasts move purely through speed as well and leaping through time so immeasurable speed for them as well. Considering maltruant controlled it to time travel.
Click to expand...

Explicitly stated to be FTL movement and that high gravity could stop them, which the speed page mentions it wouldn't count as being Immeasurable
 
also the time beast in that clip was clearly using said speed as short bursts as shown by the aura and effect, and we see that their time travel has them make a burst of red energy before they are gone, so is not them their normal speed either, but an ability
 
You should stick with his moving across time feat as existing outside of time is not a speed feat at all, just a state of existence, so adding it supports nothing.
 
Well, everything which is about to happen outside have happened for one sitting in time cycle already in present, so it's like indeed faster than moving fast enough that everyone appears to be frozen (which speed page states is for infinite) but I think as long as it's all about "FTL" it can't be helped.

I think technically the guy doing samething with FTL in the same way immeasurable speed guy can do be treated differently doesn't makes much sense. They technically stands even or atleast will blitz the guy moving with infinite speed. Since formers speed outcomes outclasses the speed outcomes of latter.
 
Reiner04 said:
I think technically the guy doing samething with FTL in the same way immeasurable speed guy can do be treated differently doesn't makes much sense. They technically stands even or atleast will blitz the guy moving with infinite speed. Since formers speed outcomes outclasses the speed outcomes of latter.
Click to expand...
They are different, because one is traveling through time, the other is trivializing time (and it's flow of events).

The first one follows a singular path of events inherently. It ain't blitzing infinite speed either. While you sre moving in both, you are doing it in different ways. By traveling through time, you are going further along the flow of events. That's basically it. Infinite speed is essentially "stuck" in a "present" form, as they do everything in 0 seconds. Time isn't flowing for them.

But immeasurable trivializes this entire thing, because their actions do not care about the flow of events in the first place. It doesn't matter the "when" or "where*, they already did it. That is why they blitz infinite. It's not that time = 0, it's that time = none.

That's why just traveling through time with speed is not enough by itself. There's a clear flow of events there.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
They are different, because one is traveling through time, the other is trivializing time (and it's flow of events).

The first one follows a singular path of events inherently. It ain't blitzing infinite speed either. While you sre moving in both, you are doing it in different ways. By traveling through time, you are going further along the flow of events. That's basically it. Infinite speed is essentially "stuck" in a "present" form, as they do everything in 0 seconds. Time isn't flowing for them.

But immeasurable trivializes this entire thing, because their actions do not care about the flow of events in the first place. It doesn't matter the "when" or "where*, they already did it. That is why they blitz infinite. It's not that time = 0, it's that time = none.

That's why just traveling through time with speed is not enough by itself. There's a clear flow of events there.
Click to expand...
Uh well, I'm not saying we should treat it like imms speed, since we don't do that ig. I'm saying that what time cycle can do, is practically same as what imms can do, in the same way.

Trivialising time by infinite speed just mean to do things in 0 sec, no matter in what way you word it. Making time insignificant, trivalise it, etc and all is just being fast enough to do things in time or before it. Time cycle can do that with its speed purely. So it'll be on par with the guy who does same with infinite speed, since outcomes of both actions are exactly same.

Our page: They can also perform an infinite number of actions or travel infinite distance within a finite amount of time. An infinite speed character's perception of time only flows when they allow it to flow.

All this can results can be achieved by time bike. Or the verse who allows FTL to do all this.

And immeasurable speed would just be beyond linear time or moving beyond than just freezing everyone to one position, that is knowing/seeing what going to happen in future purely just by speed. Things seems same to me either way.
 
Reiner04 said:
Well, everything which is about to happen outside have happened for one sitting in time cycle already in present, so it's like indeed faster than moving fast enough that everyone appears to be frozen (which speed page states is for infinite) but I think as long as it's all about "FTL" it can't be helped.

I think technically the guy doing samething with FTL in the same way immeasurable speed guy can do be treated differently doesn't makes much sense. They technically stands even or atleast will blitz the guy moving with infinite speed. Since formers speed outcomes outclasses the speed outcomes of latter.
Click to expand...
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
They are different, because one is traveling through time, the other is trivializing time (and it's flow of events).

The first one follows a singular path of events inherently. It ain't blitzing infinite speed either. While you sre moving in both, you are doing it in different ways. By traveling through time, you are going further along the flow of events. That's basically it. Infinite speed is essentially "stuck" in a "present" form, as they do everything in 0 seconds. Time isn't flowing for them.

But immeasurable trivializes this entire thing, because their actions do not care about the flow of events in the first place. It doesn't matter the "when" or "where*, they already did it. That is why they blitz infinite. It's not that time = 0, it's that time = none.

That's why just traveling through time with speed is not enough by itself. There's a clear flow of events there.
Click to expand...
Reiner04 said:
Uh well, I'm not saying we should treat it like imms speed, since we don't do that ig. I'm saying that what time cycle can do, is practically same as what imms can do, in the same way.

Trivialising time by infinite speed just mean to do things in 0 sec, no matter in what way you word it. Making time insignificant, trivalise it, etc and all is just being fast enough to do things in time or before it. Time cycle can do that with its speed purely. So it'll be on par with the guy who does same with infinite speed, since outcomes of both actions are exactly same.

Our page: They can also perform an infinite number of actions or travel infinite distance within a finite amount of time. An infinite speed character's perception of time only flows when they allow it to flow.

All this can results can be achieved by time bike. Or the verse who allows FTL to do all this.

And immeasurable speed would just be beyond linear time or moving beyond than just freezing everyone to one position, that is knowing/seeing what going to happen in future purely just by speed. Things seems same to me either way.
Click to expand...

Tbh i think it´s better we discuss this in another thread
 
Well I just pointed that stuff out but considering our imms standard, Ben 10 doesn't qualify as it needs to cross a threshold beyond LS to react at future stuff or time travel, so ig this can be closed.
 
@Hellformer
Sorry to say but you had to elaborate
I know about your full scale [you already shared that to me on discord] and I agree but most of the people here don't agree 😢

My vote is for agree
 
Reiner04 said:
Uh well, I'm not saying we should treat it like imms speed, since we don't do that ig. I'm saying that what time cycle can do, is practically same as what imms can do, in the same way.

Trivialising time by infinite speed just mean to do things in 0 sec, no matter in what way you word it. Making time insignificant, trivalise it, etc and all is just being fast enough to do things in time or before it. Time cycle can do that with its speed purely. So it'll be on par with the guy who does same with infinite speed, since outcomes of both actions are exactly same.
Click to expand...
Infinite speed doesn't trivialize time in the matter I'm mentioning. I explained what I meant by trivializing time: I.E. to make it not matter by disrupting the flow of events. Neither infinite speed nor just time travel can do that. Time traveling can create a chain reaction through the causality to change events, while immeasurable speeds do it by default.

Time travel cannot blitz infinite because these are different things.

Accelerated_Evolution said:
Tbh i think it´s better we discuss this in another thread
Click to expand...
I'm pretty much done either way
 
@Hellformer
Well I think time we first do time cycle speed upscale, as it's speed could de-age time beast
Also time beast moves on his speed [not by dimensional travel]
Reiner04 said:
Ah well, ig time beasts move purely through speed as well and leaping through time so immeasurable speed for them as well. Considering maltruant controlled it to time travel.
Click to expand...

We can do this in sequence
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

NXCHT.66
Alien X Addition and Upgrade
2 3
Replies
98
Views
4K
NXCHT.66
NXCHT.66
Hellformer
Immeasurable speed for time beast, time cycles and celestial sapiens
2 3
Replies
88
Views
6K
OMNIVERSAL-KING
OMNIVERSAL-KING
Krazydog050
  • Locked
Alien X is High Hyperversal!
2
Replies
54
Views
6K
TheShape03
TheShape03
OMNIVERSAL-KING
  • Locked
Removing 2-A rating and "possibly" from 1-B stats of Alien X proposal
2
Replies
54
Views
2K
Firestorm808
Firestorm808
TheShape03
Immeasurable Attack Speed for Alien X
Replies
23
Views
3K
OMNIVERSAL-KING
OMNIVERSAL-KING
Back
Top